Ullrich has gone underground and refused internal T-Mobile DNA tests....

[alibat]

Things are starting to move. Seems we might know the truth soon.http://www.eurosport.de/radsport/tour-de-france/2006/sport_sto928974.shtml

The Bonn court are issuing charges against Ulle, Sevilla and Pevenage.

 

[Bro Deal]

Things are starting to move. Seems we might know the truth soon.http://www.eurosport.de/radsport/tour-de-france/2006/sport_sto928974.shtml

The Bonn court are issuing charges against Ulle, Sevilla and Pevenage.

What are they being charged with?

 

[alibat]

What are they being charged with?

Bablefish doesn't give a good translation, but it is fraud of some kind.

 

[bauerfan]

Things are starting to move. Seems we might know the truth soon.http://www.eurosport.de/radsport/tour-de-france/2006/sport_sto928974.shtml

The Bonn court are issuing charges against Ulle, Sevilla and Pevenage.

They are contemplating bringing charges based on the complaint of a university professor who has accused the three of sporting fraud. The prosecuter's office is investigating the claim (received by them on July 7th) and will decide within 7 days what they are going to do.

 

[murraj2]

NEWSFLASH: Jan Ullrich has been fired by his team T-Mobile following his recent implication in the Operacion Puerto blood doping scandal, according to german news agency SID. The German 1997 Tour winner is said to be in denial, but directeur sportif Olaf Ludwig has confirmed the news.

It seems like there must have been some real firm evidence here for them to fire him completely. I would assume that his tour days are definately over now. Though if he wanted to keep riding, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to find a team willing to pick him up.

 

[limerickman]

If you read Matt Rendell's latest book "The death of Marco Pantani" he details how Pantani was diagnosed with a severe mental illness and was asked by his doctors to stop riding. The book also shows some of his paintings... weird and really out there… he even did one of Lance Armstrong ! Great book if you can get hold of it and only released a few weeks ago...

Speaking of Rendells book : Rendell was interviewed by David Harmon.
Did you hear Rendell saying that Pantani had €32 million in bank accounts at the time of his death?

This is a huge amount of money.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Speaking of Rendells book : Rendell was interviewed by David Harmon.
Did you hear Rendell saying that Pantani had €32 million in bank accounts at the time of his death?

This is a huge amount of money.

I did hear that and was trying to think where it came from ? Surley cyclist don't earn that much money ! That is footballer's type of cash... perhaps his money was invested well for him ?

 

[cyclingheroes]

Today there is an interview with Bernahard Welten in the Swiss newspaper Blick (the same newspaper who published the interview with Jan - Monday July 24) . Welten is working for the Swiss Olympic commitee and works for the commision who decides if there will be a sporttrial or not. He says sportsmen only have to proof their innocence if we have a positive probe or a confession. Neither is the case with Jan Ullrich so the court has to proof he is quilty, if it's going to court at all. It's possible to convict somebody on indications but we have to proof them.

http://www.blick.ch/sonntagsblick/sport/artikel41779

 

[Serafino]

Today there is an interview with Bernahard Welten in the Swiss newspaper Blick (the same newspaper who published the interview with Jan - Monday July 24) . Welten is working for the Swiss Olympic commitee and works for the commision who decides if there will be a sporttrial or not. He says sportsmen only have to proof their innocence if we have a positive probe or a confession. Neither is the case with Jan Ullrich so the court has to proof he is quilty, if it's going to court at all. It's possible to convict somebody on indications but we have to proof them.

http://www.blick.ch/sonntagsblick/sport/artikel41779

I completely agree with this especially after the Astana 5 and the whole Communidad Valenciana team has been exonerated. He's never failed a test and hasn't been found with any drugs, etc., in his possession.

No proof of guilt or evidence of doping (positive tests, drug possession, etc.). There was no reason for him to take a DNA test prior to actual evidence being presented against him. Why invade your privacy and refute something that the authorities haven't even bothered to "attempt" to prove.

Would any of us consent to this type of Kangaroo court invasion of privacy? Its fascist IMO. Charge him formally and bring the evidence forward or drop the matter.

 

[rejobako]

I completely agree with this especially after the Astana 5 and the whole Communidad Valenciana team has been exonerated. He's never failed a test and hasn't been found with any drugs, etc., in his possession.

No proof of guilt or evidence of doping (positive tests, drug possession, etc.). There was no reason for him to take a DNA test prior to actual evidence being presented against him. Why invade your privacy and refute something that the authorities haven't even bothered to "attempt" to prove.

Would any of us consent to this type of Kangaroo court invasion of privacy? Its fascist IMO. Charge him formally and bring the evidence forward or drop the matter.

Excellent, excellent post. Everyone seems to want Ullrich and the others to consent to all manner of privacy intrusions and yet those who seek to prosecute them sit there with their arms folded and their files closed. Screw them. If you've got proof -- let's have it.

 

[jhuskey]

Excellent, excellent post. Everyone seems to want Ullrich and the others to consent to all manner of privacy intrusions and yet those who seek to prosecute them sit there with their arms folded and their files closed. Screw them. If you've got proof -- let's have it.

I don't believe that there is any proof, however these guys are being persecuted in the media and damaged maybe beyond recovery.
There is suspicion but not enough proof, IMO, so dragging them through hell in the public eye is the only alternative and the longer the more effective.
If the Swiss clear Jan to race it will still be a difficult struggle for him to come back.

 

[meandmybike]

I did hear that and was trying to think where it came from ? Surley cyclist don't earn that much money ! That is footballer's type of cash... perhaps his money was invested well for him ?

I remember reading shortly after his death how Pantani had received shares and a percentage of profits from Mercatone Uno, such was his popularity and the positive effect it had on their fortunes.

 

[bauerfan]

I don't believe that there is any proof, however these guys are being persecuted in the media and damaged maybe beyond recovery.
There is suspicion but not enough proof, IMO, so dragging them through hell in the public eye is the only alternative and the longer the more effective.
If the Swiss clear Jan to race it will still be a difficult struggle for him to come back.

Very little balanced presentation in the German media which seems to be accomplishing its purpose. One account yesterday from the Tour of Germany speaks of a 12-year old boy who was asked who is favourite cyclist was -- the response "Not Ullrich anymore!". For those of you that can read German Tobias Steinhauser gave an interview yesterday

http://www.radsportnews.com/

He talks about the Landis situation -- he is upset that people have him tried and convicted even before the results of the B sample are known. He also talks about Manzano's contention that everyone at the Tour uses drugs. He questions Manzano's motives for making such claims and says that they are false. He talks about the public having the wrong impression. There is no "rum dealer" putting EPO, hormone preparations or the like under rider's noses and for himself if someone had done so he would have simply said no. The interviewer asks how Jan is doing and Steinhauser responds "so far quite well" and indicates that they are in close contact. He believes Jan is innocent. Steinhauser also admits that he put Jan in contact with Cecchini as a coach and indicates that Cecchini is one of the best cycling coaches that there is. All Cecchini gives are training plans -- nothing more -- according to Steinhauser -- he never came to him with drugs -- just demanded hard training. There is also some more stuff on what to do about doping in cycling which he has some strong views on.

 

[bauerfan]

The German Press is having another field day. Dr. Werner Franke, a noted molecular biologist (professor at the University of Heidleberg) and anti-doping crusader says he has seen the Puerto papers and Ullrich paid 35,000 Euros in one year to Fuentes for his services. Apparently, this is the base fee Fuentes charged for his services. He believes Ullrich and Landis are toast.

Christian Frommert, the T-Mobile spokesman, indicated that he was not familiar with that number but knew that the authorities had assigned some number to Ullrich.

http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,429999,00.html

 

[cyclingheroes]

The German Press is having another field day. Dr. Werner Franke, a noted molecular biologist (professor at the University of Heidleberg) and anti-doping crusader says he has seen the Puerto papers and Ullrich paid 35,000 Euros in one year to Fuentes for his services. Apparently, this is the base fee Fuentes charged for his services. He believes Ullrich and Landis are toast.

Christian Frommert, the T-Mobile spokesman, indicated that he was not familiar with that number but knew that the authorities had assigned some number to Ullrich.

http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,429999,00.html

Correct exept that i think it's important to add Frommert ending his comment about the 35.000 euros with "but this also have to be verified".

 

[bauerfan]

Correct exept that i think it's important to add Frommert ending his comment about the 35.000 euros with "but this also have to be verified".

You're right.

 

[jhuskey]

You're right.

The probabilty of life on other planets is staggering ,there again I will wait for verification.

 

[cyclingheroes]

The German Press is having another field day. Dr. Werner Franke, a noted molecular biologist (professor at the University of Heidleberg) and anti-doping crusader says he has seen the Puerto papers and Ullrich paid 35,000 Euros in one year to Fuentes for his services. Apparently, this is the base fee Fuentes charged for his services. He believes Ullrich and Landis are toast.

Christian Frommert, the T-Mobile spokesman, indicated that he was not familiar with that number but knew that the authorities had assigned some number to Ullrich.

http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,429999,00.html

According to Radsportnews.com Jan reacted on the remarks of professor Franke by saying (in Fridays edition of the German newspaper Bild): "The man likes to hear himself talking and wanted to be on television again, i didn't hear such **** for a long time".

http://radsportnews.net/2006/ullrichskandal_franlke.shtml

 

[bauerfan]

According to Radsportnews.com Jan reacted on the remarks of professor Franke by saying (in Fridays edition of the German newspaper Bild): "The man likes to hear himself talking and wanted to be on television again, i didn't hear such **** for a long time".

http://radsportnews.net/2006/ullrichskandal_franlke.shtml

You're not giving the German word "Blödsinn" its full due (the phrase Ullrich used in the original German and translated as "****") -- one of the things that gets lost in translation -- it can be used in any context from the relatively polite "that's nonsense" through to the slightly stronger "that's ****" to the much more emphatic "that's full and utter ********" -- Given the current context I think Ullrich may have been leaning towards the more emphatic use of the phrase.

 

[lwedge]

You're not giving the German word "Blödsinn" its full due (the phrase Ullrich used in the original German and translated as "****") -- one of the things that gets lost in translation -- it can be used in any context from the relatively polite "that's nonsense" through to the slightly stronger "that's ****" to the much more emphatic "that's full and utter ********" -- Given the current context I think Ullrich may have been leaning towards the more emphatic use of the phrase.

What's your take on this?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060803/sp_wl_afp/cyclingdopingger_060803160851


This is certainly not good PR. I don't have much knowledge of Dr. Werner Franke. Is he credible.