Ulrich, apparent doper

[helmutRoole2]

In case you missed it:

Cycling News Flash, April 4, 2007
Edited by Gregor Brown

Puerto blood confirmed to be Ullrich's
By Hedwig Kröner

German sports news agency sid revealed on Tuesday afternoon that the blood bags seized in Operación Puerto and marked "Jan," "number 1" or "Hijo Rudicio" ('son of Rudy') have been confirmed to contain the blood of the now-retired German cycling star, Jan Ullrich. Public prosecutor Fred Apostel told sports news agency sid that the comparison with a DNA sample taken from Ullrich's saliva showed "without a doubt" that the blood seized by the Guardia Civil last year indeed belonged to the only German to have ever won the Tour de France.

"We found nine blood bags that we could compare with the DNA probes," Apostel told n-tv. For the prosecutor, this proves that Jan Ullrich had indeed been in contact with the Spanish doctor Eufemiano Fuentes. "This shows that blood bags were stored there [in Fuentes' offices]," he added.

The Ullrich camp has meanwhile reacted and posted a statement on the personal website of the former cyclist, janullrich.de. Attorney Johann Schwenn declared that "The defence will take a close look at the opinion of the Federal Criminal Police Office. After the irregularities in the Spanish procedure it is well possible that this finding is the consequence of manipulation. In any case, there is no reason to change anything in the line of defence of Jan Ullrich."

The public prosecutor in Bonn, Germany is investigating fraud charges against Ullrich, as well as his advisor Rudy Pevenage.

 

[helmutRoole2]

How does this make you feel?

Does it destroy your faith in clean sport?

Do you think that Ulrich and a handful of other dopers are the exception, not the rule?

If you liked Ulrich, does this now make you not like him?

Do you think it's possible that there is a conspiracy in place? If so, let's hear it.

Do you think Ulrich has been doping since he was little pup or just later in his career or maybe just this one transgression?

Maybe he didn't dope at all? How many think donating blood is a plausible explanation for Ulrich's dna match?

Did he quit the sport because he knew the end was near?

 

[earth_dweller]

How does this make you feel?

Surprised it happened so late, waiting for the next shoe to drop (or the next na to be IDed), sad for Ullrich for being the scapegoat

Does it destroy your faith in clean sport?

Never believed it was clean

Do you think that Ulrich and a handful of other dopers are the exception, not the rule?

Dopers are the majority.

If you liked Ulrich, does this now make you not like him?

Nope.

Do you think it's possible that there is a conspiracy in place? If so, let's hear it.

Yeah, conspiracy of silence between the UCI, race sponsors, team owners, doctors, team sponsors,....

Do you think Ulrich has been doping since he was little pup or just later in his career or maybe just this one transgression?

Mmm dunno when he started doping, but this is certainly not just one transgression. I'd like to know when he started, how he started, did he start small and increase the doping, when was blood doping started,....

Maybe he didn't dope at all? How many think donating blood is a plausible explanation for Ulrich's dna match?

Can't think of a single plausible reason that Fuentes would have someone's blood

Did he quit the sport because he knew the end was near?

I don't think he believed he would get caught, as most don't. imo he quit cos he just didn't have the energy to fight.

 

[DiabloScott]

Did they test the blood for pedigree?

 

[Bro Deal]

Well, there goes Basso's chances of riding the Tour.

 

[helmutRoole2]

Well, there goes Basso's chances of riding the Tour.

Yeah, that's kinda' what I'm thinking too. There's no way all this breaks out and Basso goes unscathed. What about the other OP contestants?

 

[meehs]

Wow! You can hear the crickets chirping around here when doping evidence is put forward against Ullrich. If this were 2002 and this evidence had just been presented against Armstrong, this thread would've been twenty pages long by now. Mostly with "I told you so" posts proclaiming what a scoundrel LA is.

Oh well... Only a matter of time before the Ulle fans come forward. They have to finish crying first. Then it'll be "this is circumstantial evidence and it's inconclusive!". Or "Okay, Ulle may have doped but LA is a "bigger" doper!"... My how the tables turn.

 

[Bro Deal]

Yeah, that's kinda' what I'm thinking too. There's no way all this breaks out and Basso goes unscathed. What about the other OP contestants?

Disco looks like they built their new and improved team around Basso and riders from Saiz' program.

Who are the OP riders that are on ProTour teams aside from Basso?

One thing I am pretty sure of is that Hamilton is screwed. The UCI will ban him for life. The only question is whether it will happen before the Giro. Probably not, there is only a month.

 

[helmutRoole2]

Wow! You can hear the crickets chirping around here when doping evidence is put forward against Ullrich. If this were 2002 and this evidence had just been presented against Armstrong, this thread would've been twenty pages long by now. Mostly with "I told you so" posts proclaiming what a scoundrel LA is.

Oh well... Only a matter of time before the Ulle fans come forward. They have to finish crying first. Then it'll be "this is circumstantial evidence and it's inconclusive!". Or "Okay, Ulle may have doped but LA is a "bigger" doper!"... My how the tables turn.

Yep, I noticed that too. They're trying to figure out how to spin this one. it'll be tough.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Yeah, that's kinda' what I'm thinking too. There's no way all this breaks out and Basso goes unscathed. What about the other OP contestants?

To me its a sadder day than when OP was cracked open with Saiz’s arrest..... a small part of me always thought big Jan was innocent but now no more.. I trust no cyclist..... Landis can go and get farked and if he thinks I ever want him in the sport he can go fark his local priest..... as for all of the rest of them Basso included what can I say ? Now I have lost total interest in the sport until the cyclists get together and tell Basso or any other OP rider not to ride..... its just a mockery if Basso rides without providing DNA.....

….and don’t even mention Armstrong because he’s the one who started all of this.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Wow! You can hear the crickets chirping around here when doping evidence is put forward against Ullrich. If this were 2002 and this evidence had just been presented against Armstrong, this thread would've been twenty pages long by now. Mostly with "I told you so" posts proclaiming what a scoundrel LA is.

Oh well... Only a matter of time before the Ulle fans come forward. They have to finish crying first. Then it'll be "this is circumstantial evidence and it's inconclusive!". Or "Okay, Ulle may have doped but LA is a "bigger" doper!"... My how the tables turn.

To be honest I think most Ulle fans are lost for words not because they've been proven wrong but we ALL really know now the sport is a sham.... and you can include Armstrong in that.....

 

[Bro Deal]

"Okay, Ulle may have doped but LA is a "bigger" doper!"

We already know Armstrong was a bigger doper. He was using more EPO in 1999 than any other rider.

It would be more interesting to hear from those who have all but claimed that OP was a fabrication of lying prosecutors.

 

[helmutRoole2]

….and don’t even mention Armstrong because he’s the one who started all of this.

Naw. He just took it to the next level. That's the American way.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Naw. He just took it to the next level. That's the American way.

True. He's been very quite of recent. Probably glad he retired just at the right time. Tactics were always his best game.

Basso cannot ride the Giro under this cloud...... btw/ In the bloods bags that were tested did they find EPO ? or was it just Ulle's blood ?

 

[helmutRoole2]

I'll throw this out there, and I've said it before. What difference does it make? Just enjoy the sport part and the race part and leave the personalities out of it. Check out the pedal mechanics, the thrill of the race, the one guy who beats the charging peloton... all the stuff.

Doping shouldn't change a thing.

 

[meehs]

How does this make you feel?

No different than I felt before reading the post. It's no surprise.

Does it destroy your faith in clean sport?

Doping has been part of cycling virtually since the birth of the sport. So no.

Do you think that Ulrich and a handful of other dopers are the exception, not the rule?

HAHA...

If you liked Ulrich, does this now make you not like him?

HAHA... <hang-on, I'm not finished holding my side...>

Okay... I love Ulle. My opinion hasn't changed.

Do you think it's possible that there is a conspiracy in place? If so, let's hear it.

No more plausable than the "conspiracy" against LA.

Do you think Ulrich has been doping since he was little pup or just later in his career or maybe just this one transgression?.

He won the TdF in 1997 correct? Clean? Not likely. 'Nuf said.

One transgression? C'mon! When LA's mis-handled, post-tested samples from 1999 were found to have EPO in them, the LA haters on this very forum stated that it proved conclusively that he doped in every race in which he ever participated and that certainly all of his TdF victories were juiced. Which I'm sure they were, but so are all of the others.

Maybe he didn't dope at all? How many think donating blood is a plausible explanation for Ulrich's dna match?

Gimme a break.

Did he quit the sport because he knew the end was near?

He saw the excriment nearing the air circulation device. No question.

 

[helmutRoole2]

See, that's the spirit.

It shouldn't change a thing.

 

[meehs]

See, that's the spirit.

It shouldn't change a thing.

I agree Helmut. The thread did provide some entertainment value. The sport of cycling is what it is. Anyway, my opinon hasn't changed at all. Ulle is one of the greats. He doped. They all do.

 

[Bro Deal]

I'll throw this out there, and I've said it before. What difference does it make? Just enjoy the sport part and the race part and leave the personalities out of it. Check out the pedal mechanics, the thrill of the race, the one guy who beats the charging peloton... all the stuff.

Doping shouldn't change a thing.

But how good is the racing with EPO and blood doping? We have been treated to boring Tours, where Armstrong and his henchmen controlled the race until the last few kilometers and then there was a mad surge on the last bit of road to gain a little time. I think Indurain was doped to the gills also, but even his boring Tour wins were exciting by comparison. We have GTs where the doped never have a bad day. There are no more climbing specialists anymore; the only way a climber has of winning is a long suicide break. The GTs are raced like there is almost an understanding between the competitors that their doping programs have already preordained the winner.

 

[padawan]

How does this make you feel?
No change in how I feel - just not surprised.

Does it destroy your faith in clean sport?
No. I never believed he was clean.

Do you think that Ulrich and a handful of other dopers are the exception, not the rule?
I don't know about "a handful" - it's probably quite a few of the top players but I don't think it's all of them. And more importantly, I hope that the increased publicity on doping is making neo pros think twice about doping.

If you liked Ulrich, does this now make you not like him?
No change in how I feel about Ulrich - I find it hard to be angry at the riders. I can't imagine the amount of pressure one would feel as a pro cyclist with a team telling you you had to perform or you weren't going to have a job anymore. And we can all sit on the sidelines and say "I would never do it!" but we have no idea. I do however think the real culprits are the team doctors/managers/owners who either encourage it or turn a blind eye because it's putting big money in their pockets. I think I'd have less trouble feeling sorry for a rider entering the pro peloton NOW and choosing to dope - but for guys that entered the pro peloton when Ulrich did...

Do you think it's possible that there is a conspiracy in place? If so, let's hear it.
No conspiracy, it's out in the open. Humanity will go to any end to satisfy greed - I will never be surprised by things people do when money or power is involved.

Do you think Ulrich has been doping since he was little pup or just later in his career or maybe just this one transgression?
Probably shortly after he started and showed some serious promise as a pro.

Maybe he didn't dope at all? How many think donating blood is a plausible explanation for Ulrich's dna match?
Yawn.

Did he quit the sport because he knew the end was near?
It doesn't really matter.

I try to remain optimistic about the sport of cycling. If we lose faith, it will surely fail.