Ultegra Di2

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by genedan, Dec 24, 2010.

  1. genedan

    genedan New Member

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    Hey,

    Looks like Shimano's rolling out with a new electric Ultegra groupset...

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/12/news/shimano-trickles-down-the-electric-with-ultegra-di2-group_153843

    What do you think? At $2690 I'd say it's pretty insane since I remember in high school you could get a full Ultegra-equipped bicycle for less than that. Ultegra's got a monopoly on electric groupsets so the price comes as no surprise, though if Campy comes out with an electronic groupset it'll just be a duopoly and not much better...

    Some one tell me what is the benefit of paying an extra $1100 for this? I would rather spend the money on a power meter...
     
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  2. steve

    steve Administrator
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    I'll be waiting for the price to drop, though this probably wont happen until campy and Sram release a similar product.
     
  3. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    I'll get it! It'll guarantee a few more crit wins next season...
     
  4. vspa

    vspa Active Member

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    i would go for the power meter or for an extra set of wheels,
     
  5. Peter@vecchios

    [email protected] New Member

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    Or work on the 'motor'. Coach, cycling trip to the Dolomites, etc. Instead of 'gear'. 'Don't buy upgrades, ride upgrades.'
     
  6. SL55

    SL55 New Member

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    Current Flat free streak.......Fr/Rr 38,800K......forget Electric shifting, go tubeless.........

     
  7. burtonator

    burtonator New Member

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    Watch this for the pros and cons of the Di2...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJXKCoxMLnU

    Shifting under power is going to be interesting. I want to get on one and ride it to find out how solid it is...
     
  8. sitzmark

    sitzmark Member

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    Guess I can't say too much since my car hasn't had a mechanical linkage with the throttle or transmission since 2005. If you don't think about it you'd never know the difference. But, if the computer goes totally wacky things could get "interesting" though. Suntour bombed years (20) ago with a similar concept, but maybe it's time has come.

    I'm assuming no shift cables go to the brifters - just electrical wire with position sensors telling a central control box how much cable to pull or release. Comfortable with that in general, but if the brain goes down it would be nice to have some default override for limping home. That said ... how many of us carry a spare shift cable now? Same issue.

    Anyone remember how to control a PC with DOS commands? Or CPM? How about a typewriter ... with manually levered type bars? So we move on... :grin:
     
  9. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, the bike I test rode with Dura Ace Di2 was unbelivably slick and its gear shifting puts even Dura Ace 7800 to shame (7800, IMHO shifts way better than 7900 but the latter could hardly be called shabby).

    For a road bike that sees mostly rolling terrain I'd say it was overkill - but for a time trial bike or a bike that'd see lots of use in the big hills, the option of having extra shifters dotted around the bars would be great. I love climbing with my hands near the center of the tops of the bars so having Di2 electronic shifter there would be sweet.


    I do... To all of the above. ;) The joys of fdisk and loading cdrom drivers, config.sys and autoexec.bat and telling people to delete io.sys (if they ticked you off in chat rooms) in order to improve modem performance.
     
  10. sitzmark

    sitzmark Member

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    I do... To all of the above. ;) The joys of fdisk and loading cdrom drivers, config.sys and autoexec.bat and telling people to delete io.sys (if they ticked you off in chat rooms) in order to improve modem performance.



    Evil one! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

    Bluetooth mic on helmet strap VR software ... supplemental override or no shifters,at all - no required hand position.
     
  11. burtonator

    burtonator New Member

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    This is a good point. You could basically shift from any hand position. I don't think Di2 implements this now but I think they should.

    It's an issue of safety to have to reach your hands to another position to shift. Better to keep your hands on the handlebars at all times if possible.
     
  12. davereo

    davereo Well-Known Member

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    I like where technology is heading in the Di2. Although I am patient enough to wait this out until the price point is reasonable. Like Maybe in 12 years from now it would make a wonderful retirement gift to myself. A brand new bike with the Di2 as factory equipment.
     
  13. Yojimbo_

    Yojimbo_ Active Member

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    I just can't see the point. My standard Ultegra works great and my fingers have no problem pushing on the thingamajibs to make the gears shift smoothly.

    Shimano must have market research though to justify the development cost so no doubt there's a fair number of people out there who would pay for this.
     
  14. genedan

    genedan New Member

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    I use a Linux Terminal to run my computer which sort of like using DOS but way cooler.

    Anyway I think one of the main points in buying a bicycle is that it's supposed to be affordable and environmentally friendly. Developing Di2 makes a bike way more expensive and the batteries are not good for the environment.

    To me Di2 is kind of like the Segway - it's replacing something that has no dire need to be replaced. Will Di2 really help you win? Sure you can theoretically have 100 shifters on 100 different places on your bike but if you can't put the power in you don't stand a chance.

    It took 16 years of fancy technology and bike price inflation for Dave Zabriske to beat Greg Lemond's TT record, and even with the $15,000 bicycles we have now the top athletes would struggle to get anywhere close to that...
     
  15. vspa

    vspa Active Member

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    Another parameter to consider is that a Road cyclist should shift gears as little as possible, a common rookie mistake is to shift gears like a car will do.

    You get into low speed after a corner for example, you keep a big gear and let your legs and body to restart you up, the same after a fall or anything slowing you down.
    You are going to challenge the sprinters in the final KM, you set your biggest gear before and you don't shift again during the sprint.
    You hit a serious climb, just shift to a lower gear after your cadence drops significantly.

    So the day electronic shifting becomes affordable and reliable it won't make such a difference in performance,
     
  16. MikeM95831

    MikeM95831 New Member

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    I think Di2 is awesome if you're going for the last 5 seconds in a 50km time-trial. That's about it.

    However, there will come a point where it'll be cheaper to produce electronic levers/changers than mechanical. That will happen.

    Look at what happened with FI in cars. 35 years ago, the electronics of FI just made it far more expensive than carbs. Eventually, the manufacturers whittled it, engineered it, tested it, relied on newer methods, and so forth, to the point where you could not possibly duplicate the reliability, precision and price-point of engine controls with carburetion. They will get there with electronic shifters on bikes -- and yes, in our lifetimes.

    Campy should also have electronic shifting in about a year.

    I can remember a time when people said, "Ten speeds? Why??!!".

    That really isn't much of a battery in those Di2 systems. I bet they get it to the point where there's about as much waste in a battery as there is in a pair of cables.
     
  17. MikeM95831

    MikeM95831 New Member

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    I'm going to say something even more shocking and outrageous: I think they should have regen braking on bikes. Moreover, I think they should allow them in races.

    Think about the amount of energy the elite racers could store in a long descent. Instead of calipers, or in addition to calipers, you'd have simple DC motors/generators (probably brushless)in the hub. Put on the brake, you'd generate electricity. Put on the brake harder, the caliper would activate.

    Later on in the race, you'd have tactical decisions to make. When do I start using stored power? In the climb, or in the sprint?

    There'd be rules... Everyone would have to start the race/stage with zero charge, for example. And there'd be stages/races where you'd decide the weight penalty isn't worth it. For a pure hill climb, it wouldn't be worth it. But for those epic days where you have 3 1,500 meter climbs, you'd go with the regen bike.

    I can also see this being especially useful in a touring bike, or even a commuting bike.

    One thing I've never understood: You can get a pretty darned nice motorcycle, with more precision parts in the cylinder head than there are in an entire bicycle... For about the same price as a bicycle. Yeah, you can get a pretty sweet bicycle for $8k. There are also some pretty sweet motorcycles for $8k.

    No one has ever explained to me how that works. Bottom-line, though: You can bet a good regen brake system for a bicycle would run $12,000. There's no real reason for it to, but it would.
     
  18. davereo

    davereo Well-Known Member

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    Bikes and components are way overpriced. I have always wondered about this myself and one reason I have come up with is that we are willing to pay so the manufacturers soak us. Maybe someone in the industry would like to share some light on this FACT.
     
  19. vspa

    vspa Active Member

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    a high end bicycle is way more difficult to build than you could think of,
    weight is not much of a concern on a motorbike for example,
    i think we are comparing pears to apples anyway,
     
  20. genedan

    genedan New Member

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    The brakes on a car get a lot more heat than those on a bike...a bike won't go fast enough and the size of a battery needed for such a system wouldn't give cyclists any benefit. At that point you might as well put a motor on a bike
     
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