Ultegra vs. SRAM Rival

[BiggMakk]

Looking forward to giving myself a nice Christmas present - a new bike. I consider myself an avid recreational rider. I don't race but I do ride often and kick my riding group's ass by sheer grit. I just love cycling.

I have heard many good things about Ultegra - almost as good as Dura-ace, great value, blah-blah. However it is rather common. I am starting to see SRAM Rival as a option now too. Certainly less common, but will my local bike shop be able to handle the regular upkeep?

Strong opinions from other avid cyclists?

 

[hd reynolds]

Looking forward to giving myself a nice Christmas present - a new bike. I consider myself an avid recreational rider. I don't race but I do ride often and kick my riding group's ass by sheer grit. I just love cycling.

I have heard many good things about Ultegra - almost as good as Dura-ace, great value, blah-blah. However it is rather common. I am starting to see SRAM Rival as a option now too. Certainly less common, but will my local bike shop be able to handle the regular upkeep?

Strong opinions from other avid cyclists?

Any competent LBS should be able to do that. There's really no 'far-out' tech involved. The SRAM group does not include hubs but cassette is shimano compatible so they recommend using them (shimano). Except for the double tap shift/brake lever action, all else is common tech. Crank is made by truvativ and adapts the shimano outboard type bearing design while I particulary like the rear derailleur in the way the cable is looped thru a cam-like extension before it is anchored. I think (and hope) that this will articulate and track the bigger cogs better specially since IMO some combinations are not necessarily linear.

Just a note: I am offered by an LBS a brand new full group at a price which kinda baffles me a bit coz they're cheaper than the cheapest I've seen on ebay/internet - $1100 for the Force and $707 for the Rival - or is this just right? or heard wrong? Anyways...

 

[BiggMakk]

Any competent LBS should be able to do that. There's really no 'far-out' tech involved. The SRAM group does not include hubs but cassette is shimano compatible so they recommend using them (shimano). Except for the double tap shift/brake lever action, all else is common tech. Crank is made by truvativ and adapts the shimano outboard type bearing design while I particulary like the rear derailleur in the way the cable is looped thru a cam-like extension before it is anchored. I think (and hope) that this will articulate and track the bigger cogs better specially since IMO some combinations are not necessarily linear.

Just a note: I am offered by an LBS a brand new full group at a price which kinda baffles me a bit coz they're cheaper than the cheapest I've seen on ebay/internet - $1100 for the Force and $707 for the Rival - or is this just right? or heard wrong? Anyways...

The price may be right. I'd use GVHbikes.com as a comparison. Rival seems to fall between 105 and Ultegra.

 

[prophet_ultra]

The price may be right. I'd use GVHbikes.com as a comparison. Rival seems to fall between 105 and Ultegra.

It's the position rival should be as well.

i am a rival user, basically, it's an unbelievable light weight groupset with amazing handling, but less smooth even than 105 or Campy Centaur.

 

[BiggMakk]

It's the position rival should be as well.

i am a rival user, basically, it's an unbelievable light weight groupset with amazing handling, but less smooth even than 105 or Campy Centaur.

So how exactly does the "double tap" SRAM shifting differ from Shimano shifting? I only have ten year old Shimano STI shifters to compare to. For the rear, the right brake lever shifts to lower gears and the inside little lever shifts to higher grears. For the front, the left brake lever ***** to the bigger chainring and the inside little lever shifts to the smaller chainring. Thanks,

 

[alfeng]

So how exactly does the "double tap" SRAM shifting differ from Shimano shifting? I only have ten year old Shimano STI shifters to compare to. For the rear, the right brake lever shifts to lower gears and the inside little lever shifts to higher grears. For the front, the left brake lever ***** to the bigger chainring and the inside little lever shifts to the smaller chainring. Thanks,

Uh-oh! If you don't know the basics of double-tap, you may want to wait at least a few days before committing to the SRAM shifters! The single blade behind the brake lever is THE shifter -- for BOTH up-and-down shifts.

Someone else can explain the operation to you ... or, you can look at one of SRAM's magazine ads.

FWIW. According to an advertisement, a sponsered racer said (paraphrase) that the SRAM were the best shifters he'd ever used. But, the advert didn't say what other shifters the racer had used before!

Double-tap may be the greatest thing since sliced bread to hit the cycling world, but I am quite certain that I am probably the ONE SPAZ who wouldn't be able to get it to work as intended ...

I strongly recommend Campagnolo ...

I only know two people who didn't like Campagnolo shifters (there are certainly OTHERS) ... one based his opinion on the OLDer style (which do have a different feel because those pointy-tips can intrude a little when your hands are on the hoods ... at least, the way I install them) BUT his complaint was the thumb shifters (which are NOT in the way) -- because of what I now know are invalid observations, I went through several years of trying to embrace Shimano's STI shifters. The other person (an ex-CAT something-or-other) who said he preferred Shimano had just bought a LeMond Tete de Cours (or, whatever it's called), and I'm not sure that he wasn't trying to convince himself of his purchase because, BUT complained about thumb/hand callous(es) he was developing from shifting ("death grip" shifting, I presume).

 

[Walrus]

So how exactly does the "double tap" SRAM shifting differ from Shimano shifting?

The one lever is used to shift both up and down the cassette/chainrings. The brake lever doesn't move.

Push the lever in towards the frame once for a downshift and then in a little further for a shift up in the cogset.

 

[Tech72]

Ultegra 10 urguably has the best price relative to performance ratio on the market right now. Ultimately, it's what you want or can afford but if it's "value" you want, Ultegra 10 comes highly recommended.

Around my area, a Rival groupset costs about $150 more than an Ultegra 10 groupset. While a Centaur groupset ('06 model, non-Torque Drive and Skeleton, etc.) groupset costs about $200 less than Ultegra 10. Having had a close look and short ride on all three, my money's on Ultegra. I admittedly haven't seen '07 Centaur and don't know the price yet but it definitely looks great....

 

[prophet_ultra]

So how exactly does the "double tap" SRAM shifting differ from Shimano shifting? I only have ten year old Shimano STI shifters to compare to. For the rear, the right brake lever shifts to lower gears and the inside little lever shifts to higher grears. For the front, the left brake lever ***** to the bigger chainring and the inside little lever shifts to the smaller chainring. Thanks,

Well, Sram (both rival and force) has only one lever for gear shifting, so both up and down shifting are operated by one lever. If you push the lever about 2 inch toward your frame, the mech will go down, but if you make it 3-4 inch, the mech will go up. This is what I've said 'amazing handling'.

 

[badkarma]

Let someone else do the real-world testing of SRAM component gruppos.

The SRAM products look pretty good, but I wont' even consider using them for a few years to ensure there aren't any long-term issues with them.

Go for ultegra, I've used it for awhile, and never had any issues with it.

 

[sidepocket]

So how exactly does the "double tap" SRAM shifting differ from Shimano shifting? I only have ten year old Shimano STI shifters to compare to. For the rear, the right brake lever shifts to lower gears and the inside little lever shifts to higher grears. For the front, the left brake lever ***** to the bigger chainring and the inside little lever shifts to the smaller chainring. Thanks,

For the SRAM system, the brake levers don't move at all. All they do is brake. The inside lever does both the upshift and downshift depending on how far you push it. A light tap will bring it to a smaller cog, a far push will push it up the crank/cassette to a bigger cog.

 

[daniels]

Looking forward to giving myself a nice Christmas present - a new bike. I consider myself an avid recreational rider. I don't race but I do ride often and kick my riding group's ass by sheer grit. I just love cycling.

I have heard many good things about Ultegra - almost as good as Dura-ace, great value, blah-blah. However it is rather common. I am starting to see SRAM Rival as a option now too. Certainly less common, but will my local bike shop be able to handle the regular upkeep?

Strong opinions from other avid cyclists?

Stuff them both, go Campagnolo!

 

[Bro Deal]

Stuff them both, go Campagnolo!

+1

The SRAM stuff is untested and I cannot help but think that its double tap shifting is just a way to get around patents owned by Campy and Shimano. Would they have used the same design if there were not patent issues? By SRAM's very design, shifting cannot start until you release the lever. Campy shifts as soon as you press the level or button.

 

[sideshow_bob]

The SRAM stuff is untested

SRAM have been building the best (X0) mountain bike groups on the market for the last few seasons. Their gear is hardly untested, in fact I'd suggest it's been put through conditions that no Campy gear has seen. If they continue with the quality they have bought to the MTB market, both Shimano and Campag will get some solid competition.

--brett

 

[Bro Deal]

SRAM have been building the best (X0) mountain bike groups on the market for the last few seasons.

What does that have to do with their road components?

I have SRAM X.0 on my mtn. bike--it's nice stuff--but even if I were interested in moving away from campy and paying SRAM's overly ambitious prices, I would still wait for some other suckers to road test it before buying.

 

[Powerful Pete]

In this case, go either Campagnolo (best option! ) or Shimano.

Don't be an early adopter. Forget that SRAM has experience on mtb groups. Go with tried and tested at least for this year (2007).

As other posters have said, let someone else do their long term testing in the real world. Then by all means buy their stuff next year!

 

[sideshow_bob]

What does that have to do with their road components?

Whats the difference (other than cage length, and number of teeth) between mtb and road components in F/R derailleurs, cassette and chain? SRAM owns Truvativ who have been making quality rings and cranks in both mtb and road versions for some time.

What that leaves are calipers and shifters.

In the real world people here have posted saying they are using the group. I haven't seen any negative real world experiences yet, something I'm sure if it was happening would be latched onto by the Shimano PR machine.

For the record, I'm about to build a De Rosa Macro as my primary race bike for the next season and when it comes to choosing components I'll have a good look at the Force group vs Dura Ace.

--brett

 

[Bro Deal]

What that leaves are calipers and shifters.

Yeah...mmmm...just leaves the component that is the most complicated and the most likely to have problems...

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Yeah...mmmm...just leaves the component that is the most complicated and the most likely to have problems...

Yeah... but the shifters are a simple ratchet mechanism, which is barely one step beyond the complexity of pulleys, a fulcrum, or an inclined plane. Sure the tolerances are high, but definitely not extreme. SRAM gets bonus points for making their system light and very ergonomic. Another bonus point for their 1:1 system which makes their tolerances that much more achievable.

John Swanson
www.bikephysics.com

 

[supergrill]

Yeah... but the shifters are a simple ratchet mechanism, which is barely one step beyond the complexity of pulleys, a fulcrum, or an inclined plane. Sure the tolerances are high, but definitely not extreme. SRAM gets bonus points for making their system light and very ergonomic. Another bonus point for their 1:1 system which makes their tolerances that much more achievable.

John Swanson
www.bikephysics.com

Yeah, but a cog is even simpler, and I really question SRAM's wisdom (other than getting around Shimano's Hyperglide patents) of omitting teeth on the cassette to "assist in shifting".
Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer that my 12T cog actually have 12 teeth rather than 11 with a gap.
Hmm, let's see couldn't we lighten it up even more by just having six teeth engaging every other link?

Teeth? We don't need no stinking teeth