Ultralight rucksacks: perspective?

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Maybe Rincewind's Luggage would have some good ideas on dealing with GOMLs.

Chomp!
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see me
as a dire warning.

Adrian Godwin said:

Maybe Rincewind's Luggage would have some good ideas on dealing with GOMLs.

It's when you take your crampons out, clean and freshly pressed, that it
might start looking like a Bad Idea... ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:01:18 +0100, "Paul Saunders"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I'm currently finding myself unusually paranoid about heading out into
the kind of conditions that previously wouldn't have bothered me. No
doubt due to uncertainties about the limits of all my new gear (never
changed so much gear at one time before) and the risks of employing my
new lightweight philosophy in bad weather.

All that lightweight gear will be fine, I'm sure, as long as the
tent's ok....

Having said that, I've been away to the Lakes 3 times in my Marmot
thingygen now, and I'm finding it just warm enough. I haven't been
cold, but I've decided to defer the sale of my slightly warmer Rab for
a while, just in case... I'll be interested to hear how you and others
get on with the Marmot as winter progresses.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

AndyP said:

I usually sleep in my clothes with the rucksack packed to go if it's
particularly windy in case the tent collapses. (Not happened yet).

<fx: gulp...>

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:25:07 GMT, Andy Howell

andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk said:

Quoted message said:

What do other backpackers think about this? I'm all in favour of
reducing weight - for all the obvious reasons - but I'm interested to
know how others define the line between weight and comfort

I would advise some caution here. Lightweight packs (in general) are not so
good at carrying heavier weights and so it depends on what you are doing.

That's what I'm increasingly thinking. My Macpac seems to be working
fine at the moment, even though it's relatively heavy. It's comfy,
though.

[...]

Quoted message said:

As for the Thermorest, there are several styles, some heavier than others.
But before you buy something else try putting a foam mat underneath your
Thermorest and see if that works; this is something that people do when the
ground is colder in the winter and you may find that it helps.

Last weekend I took 2 mattresses: one was a 3/4 length thick T-Rest
original, and the other was a full length Insul Mat (thicker than a
T-Rest). It was an improvement, but it still wasn't comfy. I'm
determined to get a proper night's sleep, though: I've ordered an
Exped down air mattress. Soon I'll be having a mattress sale on
Ebay...!

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

Many thanks to all for posting various perspectives on ultralight
rucksacks. I'm sticking with the Macpac for now, but I've saved all
the postings for after Christmas...

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Soon I'll be having a mattress sale on
Ebay...!

Soon you'll be paying a Sherpa and donkey to trail behind you with a
four-poster :-)

That said next weekend is likely to be my first real test of the prolite
3 in cold weather. I may be eating (frozen) humble pie by Monday.

--
Darren

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Many thanks to all for posting various perspectives on ultralight
rucksacks. I'm sticking with the Macpac for now, but I've saved all
the postings for after Christmas...

Best wishes,

Just to be different ...

I'm currently thinking of going the other way for a new large pack and
considering the new Berghaus Bioflex packs. Thinking being that I'd
rather carry a large load comfortably in a heavier pack than less
comfortably in a lightweight one. All the initial reviews have raved
about this range, but I shall be waiting until there is some longer-term
feedback on them before parting with near 200 quid.

(would still aim to get the weight down to a minimum on its contents
though).

--
Darren

Darren G said:

Just to be different ...

I'm currently thinking of going the other way for a new large pack and
considering the new Berghaus Bioflex packs. Thinking being that I'd
rather carry a large load comfortably in a heavier pack than less
comfortably in a lightweight one. All the initial reviews have raved
about this range, but I shall be waiting until there is some longer-term
feedback on them before parting with near 200 quid.

(would still aim to get the weight down to a minimum on its contents
though).

That's exactly the way I'm currently looking at it. Great minds, etc
;-)

I've not seen teh Berghaus Bioflex packs. Hmm... must go and check
them out!

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Darren G said:

Just to be different ...

I'm currently thinking of going the other way for a new large pack and
considering the new Berghaus Bioflex packs. Thinking being that I'd
rather carry a large load comfortably in a heavier pack than less
comfortably in a lightweight one. All the initial reviews have raved
about this range, but I shall be waiting until there is some longer-term
feedback on them before parting with near 200 quid.

(would still aim to get the weight down to a minimum on its contents
though).

That's exactly the way I'm currently looking at it. Great minds, etc
;-)

I've not seen teh Berghaus Bioflex packs. Hmm... must go and check
them out!

couple of early reviews on OM in the last couple of months.

--
Darren

Darren G said:

Just to be different ...

I'm currently thinking of going the other way for a new large pack and
considering the new Berghaus Bioflex packs. Thinking being that I'd
rather carry a large load comfortably in a heavier pack than less
comfortably in a lightweight one.

hurhur, yeah, way to go, this less is more malarkey is so last year!
;-)

What happens if you get a pack constructed as a lightweight that
allows you to carry that "large load" you're so keen on carting
around?

Quoted message said:

All the initial reviews have raved about this range,

Bet they're all reviewing for then sycophantic trendy market (that is
where the manufacturers pitch their product and the reviews aim at
that market too (sadly).

Quoted message said:

but I shall be waiting until there is some longer-term
feedback on them before parting with near 200 quid.

200 Notes, must be barking

Quoted message said:

(would still aim to get the weight down to a minimum on its contents
though).

That's just so contradictory its not worth commenting ;-)

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

Darren G said:

I'm currently thinking of going the other way for a new large pack and
considering the new Berghaus Bioflex packs. Thinking being that I'd
rather carry a large load comfortably in a heavier pack than less
comfortably in a lightweight one.

Of course! Lightweight packs aren't for carrying large loads! The
whole point of a lightweight pack is to carry a light load, i.e., if you
are travelling light you don't need a heavy pack to put it in, but if
you're travelling heavy, a light sack is probably the worst way to save
weight.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, SteveO says...

Quoted message said:

Darren G said:

Just to be different ...

I'm currently thinking of going the other way for a new large pack and
considering the new Berghaus Bioflex packs. Thinking being that I'd
rather carry a large load comfortably in a heavier pack than less
comfortably in a lightweight one.

hurhur, yeah, way to go, this less is more malarkey is so last year!
;-)
What happens if you get a pack constructed as a lightweight that
allows you to carry that "large load" you're so keen on carting
around?

Best of both worlds!

Seriously, I'm thinking more of multi-week treks rather than the more
common long weekends (for which I can squeeze by with my FL). For this
type of walking I'd rather carry the load comfortably and, more
importantly, under control. The couple of times I've tried on
lightweight packs I've always felt that the load (big or small) was out
of control.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All the initial reviews have raved about this range,

Bet they're all reviewing for then sycophantic trendy market (that is
where the manufacturers pitch their product and the reviews aim at
that market too (sadly).

My concern exactly. Which is why I want to weight to see if real life
experience bears out the hype.

Quoted message said:

200 Notes, must be barking

OK, it's less that that. Top of range is 180, the rest below. If I'm
going to spend 120 I'd rather fork out an extra 30 or 40 for a
significantly superior pack. Not really much different from the
Macpacs, Osprey et al.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(would still aim to get the weight down to a minimum on its contents
though).

That's just so contradictory its not worth commenting ;-)

note the smiley, but still going to bite :-) To me it makes perfect
sense - get the lowest possible overall weight at a comfort point that
works for me. For extended trips IMO it is more about a balance between
weight, comfort and control rather than all out weight reduction,
especially when scrambling or over poor terrain.

--
Darren

In article <[email hidden]>, pvs1
@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk says...

Quoted message said:

Darren G said:

I'm currently thinking of going the other way for a new large pack and
considering the new Berghaus Bioflex packs. Thinking being that I'd
rather carry a large load comfortably in a heavier pack than less
comfortably in a lightweight one.

Of course! Lightweight packs aren't for carrying large loads! The
whole point of a lightweight pack is to carry a light load, i.e., if you
are travelling light you don't need a heavy pack to put it in, but if
you're travelling heavy, a light sack is probably the worst way to save
weight.

Why couldn't' I have put it that succinctly!

I probably should have said that I was thinking primarily about using it
for long distance trekking rather than a few days backpacking. Although
at that price it would also have to get used for the latter as well!

--
Darren

Darren G said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm currently thinking of going the other way for a new large pack and
considering the new Berghaus Bioflex packs.

I looked them up on OM, but I couldn't find them by using a search.
Have you definitely seen them there?

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Darren G said:

Quoted message said:

>I'm currently thinking of going the other way for a new large pack and
>considering the new Berghaus Bioflex packs.

I looked them up on OM, but I couldn't find them by using a search.
Have you definitely seen them there?

Best wishes,

yep ... hold on a min ... will grab the url

--
Darren

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Darren G said:

> >I'm currently thinking of going the other way for a new large pack and
> >considering the new Berghaus Bioflex packs.

I looked them up on OM, but I couldn't find them by using a search.
Have you definitely seen them there?

Best wishes,

yep ... hold on a min ... will grab the url

try http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/2910/v/2/sp/

while you are there, have a look at the article on the new ME tents.
the piggy bank is looking worried already.

--
Darren
(self-confessed ME kit junkie)

Darren G said:

Quoted message said:

yep ... hold on a min ... will grab the url

Quoted message said:

try http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/2910/v/2/sp/

Ta v. much 🙂 I'll go and look.

Quoted message said:

while you are there, have a look at the article on the new ME tents.
the piggy bank is looking worried already.

Tent? Droooool..........!

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

Darren G said:

In article <[email hidden]>, SteveO says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What happens if you get a pack constructed as a lightweight that
allows you to carry that "large load" you're so keen on carting
around?

Best of both worlds!

Seriously, I'm thinking more of multi-week treks rather than the more
common long weekends (for which I can squeeze by with my FL).

Interesting. In terms of my /theoretical/ interest [see caveat below]
in this area that is my focus as well.

Quoted message said:

For this type of walking I'd rather carry the load comfortably and, more
importantly, under control.

Makes sense.

Quoted message said:

The couple of times I've tried on lightweight packs I've always felt that
the load (big or small) was out of control.

Caveat: I haven't found my *ideal* sac, as yet so am commenting from a
unsated desire on my part ;-) and having looked into things as much as
I can. Most of the reading I've done have spun out of reading stuff on
the long-distance trail sites, such as http://www.trailjournals.com
and the like, where the folk carry more than your average day-tripper
;-) Bottom line is that there are soultions that offer /lightweight/
sacs offering /high load/ carrying capability... just not easy to
find, is all.

If you want to look at a more /extreme/ (sic.!!) way of doing things
read some of Ray Jardine's stuff.

Re.: Berghaus bioflex:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

200 Notes, must be barking

OK, it's less that that. Top of range is 180, the rest below. If I'm
going to spend 120 I'd rather fork out an extra 30 or 40 for a
significantly superior pack.

The links you gave were interesting reading. Reading them suggests
they're manufacturing a market where one doesn't exist and in so doing
are coming up with a product that *increases* your weight burden cf.
other sacs in the same arena. This, IMO, is a *bad* thing, naughty
Berghaus.

The way I look at the engineering perspective on this is to look
around tangentially; sherpas carry weights that I would need a
wheelbarrow to handle and, if there really was a *need* for an
engineering solution to make it easier to carry (heavier) then such an
environment would be a likely place to find pointers... but have you
seen what Sherpas use? They don't even use shoulder straps! So this
idea of racks and pullies with sliders (my sumation) is way, way
over-engineered and totally unnecessary.

I think Berghaus are embarking on manufacturing a market rather than
manufacturing for the market.

But then again, they do have a vested interest in doing so ;-)

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

Darren G said:

In article <[email hidden]>, pvs1
@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course! Lightweight packs aren't for carrying large loads! The
whole point of a lightweight pack is to carry a light load, i.e., if you
are travelling light you don't need a heavy pack to put it in, but if
you're travelling heavy, a light sack is probably the worst way to save
weight.

Why couldn't' I have put it that succinctly!

There is, of course, a caveat (seems to be favoured word of the
moment) in that if you're focussing on reducing weight across all of
the kit range then considering a /lightweight/ sac is something that
you can't divorce from the process...

In fact, it could be suggested that *starting* from a lightweight sac
might actually *drive* your need to look at everything else you're
going to put in it... irrespective of the *capacity* of the sac.

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk