Unbridled Hostility

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Claire Petersky, Jul 25, 2003.

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  1. Dear friends,

    I'm going to lay it all out here -- skip the next few paragraphs if you don't want all the
    background information, and realize this is going to be a long post.

    Recently I attended a barbecue and picnic that our city hosted to float out its proposed
    improvements to West Lake Sammamish Parkway (aka, the lake
    road)(http://www.ci.bellevue.wa.us/press.asp?view=20904). The lake road is a relatively flat road
    that connects the end of the Sammamish River Trail, a popular multi-use trail, with the I-90 Trail,
    another multi-use trail that is primarily used by cyclists and is one of the primary bike commuter
    corridors of the region. The lake road is shady, has lots of trees, and peak-a-boo views of Lake
    Sammamish and the Cascade mountains.

    When I was a kid, Lake Sammamish was a location for little summer cabins. Now, there are
    multi-million dollar chateaux on the lake. Lakeside slopes on the other side of the Parkway,
    originally thought too steep to build on, now have fancy homes with views of the lake.

    The existing roadway was installed about 50 years ago. Since this time, the road bed has been
    patched here and there. About 20 or 25 years ago, a bike lane was added on the west side of the
    street, and the idea has been ever since that this lane was to accommodate bike traffic going both
    north and south. The east side of the roadway is a mess for cyclists -- deterioriating and patched
    concrete; uneven and cracked pavement, especially near the fog line; illegally parked cars, boats,
    and trailers on the public right-of-way; shoulders that suddenly disappear with no warning; a
    roadway that crumbles at the fog line at times, with an immediate gutter and grass (and therefore no
    bail-out room).

    Traffic volumes on the road have skyrocketed over the years, as the road helps connect suburban
    homes with the Microsoft Corporate Campus. Speeding is endemic. If you are headed north and choose
    the road over wrong-way cycling on the bike lane, you will have people passing you on a narrow
    roadway at 40+ mph. The high motor traffic volumes and speeds are potentially deadly to pedestrians.
    One of my child's classmates, an 8 year old boy named Billy, was struck by an SUV this last school
    year while attempting to cross the road to catch a school bus. He survived, but still struggles with
    brain injury-related disabilities.

    The north end of the lake road runs through the City of Redmond, and I assisted in the successful
    political effort to repave the roadway, and create a pedestrian and bicycle facility on the east
    side of the road. These improvements will stop dead now at the City line.

    From my perspective, West Lake Sammamish improvements are a no-brainer. Right now it looks like the
    side road to Bubba's Moonshine Shack, not a proud boulevard running by multi-million dollar homes.
    Of course the roadway needs to be resurfaced. Of course we need a safer environment for cyclists and
    pedestrians. More traffic means more we need to improve the road, not keep it in a deteriorated
    condition, hoping that all those cars, bikes, and pedestrians will just go away.

    The bbq was not widely publicized -- it was mainly aimed at people who live along the Lake Road, as
    opposed to spandex-clad activists. I found out about it surreptiously. Respecting the City's wishes
    not to rile up the residents attending, generally I did not reveal myself to be the chair of the
    city's Bike-Ped Advisory Group. Instead, I came up to people and said things like, "Oh -- do you
    live on the lake road? What are your concerns?"

    I was stunned by the unbridled hostility from the lake side residents. They hate bicycles. Cyclists
    don't care about property values. Cyclists don't have to ride bikes. They certainly could choose to
    ride somewhere else. Who cares about safety. Safety is not important. No children are ever going to
    want to walk on West Lake Sammamish anyway. (Since Billy was struck, that might be true -- how many
    parents are going to have their child catch the school bus on that road these days? Hm? They're
    going to drive that kid in the SUV to school instead, doncha think?) Repaving the road will just
    encourage more speeders. Adding a shoulder or bike lane will just encourage more speeders. We will
    hire lawyers. We will fight these improvements tooth and nail, and we have the money to be able to
    do that. The City had better watch out.

    In sum: we hate bicyclists. We hate pedestrians. We hate anyone using the road for any other purpose
    other than to drive to their lakeside or lake view home. And the operative word here is *hate* --
    the level of emotional venom was bracing.

    After the bbq, I felt I needed a decontamination room from absorbing so much bad feeling. And this
    without saying, "hi, I'm a cyclist who was an activist regarding the Redmond effort", or "I chair
    the city's bicycle/pedestrian advisory group". This was without stirring up their hornets' nest of
    hostility. When people voiced their feelings, I did not do any defense of the proposed improvements,
    the needs of non-motorized transportation, etc. I just listened.

    The day and lord knows, the hour will come, when I will not be just sitting there politely
    listening. I will be actively organizing, testifying, writing, facilitating. There may have been
    only a few bicycling and pedestrian activists at the bbq, and we kept our profile pretty low. There
    will be scores of them at other fora, just like we had in Redmond, and we will speak out.

    The prospect of this level of negative emotional energy that I am going to provoke is scary for me.
    I will need to draw on my meditation training to keep myself logical, focused, and at the same time,
    compassionate and open-hearted.

    Pray for me, friends, pray for me.

    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky ([email protected]) Home of the meditative cyclist:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm Singing with you at: http://www.tiferet.net/ Books
    just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at: http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
     
    Tags:


  2. Blessings to you and your strength. Blessings to cyclists everywhere that face those same selfish
    claims to the road replete with hostility and life threatening behavior on almost every ride.
    Blessings to all those people who don't cycle because of their experience with that mentality. Most
    of all blessings to those all over the world who have the "I me mine get out of my way" mentality so
    prevalent these days.

    "Claire Petersky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Dear friends,
    >
    > I'm going to lay it all out here -- skip the next few paragraphs if you don't want all the
    > background information, and realize this is going to be a long post.
    >
    > Recently I attended a barbecue and picnic that our city hosted to float out its proposed
    > improvements to West Lake Sammamish Parkway (aka, the lake
    > road)(http://www.ci.bellevue.wa.us/press.asp?view=20904). The lake road is a relatively flat road
    > that connects the end of the Sammamish River Trail, a popular multi-use trail, with the I-90
    > Trail, another multi-use trail that is primarily used by cyclists and is one of the primary bike
    > commuter corridors of the region. The lake road is shady, has lots of trees, and peak-a-boo views
    > of Lake Sammamish and the Cascade mountains.
    >
    > When I was a kid, Lake Sammamish was a location for little summer cabins. Now, there are
    > multi-million dollar chateaux on the lake. Lakeside slopes on the other side of the Parkway,
    > originally thought too steep to build on, now have fancy homes with views of the lake.
    >
    > The existing roadway was installed about 50 years ago. Since this time, the road bed has been
    > patched here and there. About 20 or 25 years ago, a bike lane was added on the west side of the
    > street, and the idea has been ever since that this lane was to accommodate bike traffic going both
    > north and south. The east side of the roadway is a mess for cyclists -- deterioriating and patched
    > concrete; uneven and cracked pavement, especially near the fog line; illegally parked cars, boats,
    > and trailers on the public right-of-way; shoulders that suddenly disappear with no warning; a
    > roadway that crumbles at the fog line at times, with an immediate gutter and grass (and therefore
    > no bail-out room).
    >
    > Traffic volumes on the road have skyrocketed over the years, as the road helps connect suburban
    > homes with the Microsoft Corporate Campus. Speeding is endemic. If you are headed north and choose
    > the road over wrong-way cycling on the bike lane, you will have people passing you on a narrow
    > roadway at 40+ mph. The high motor traffic volumes and speeds are potentially deadly to
    > pedestrians. One of my child's classmates, an 8 year old boy named Billy, was struck by an SUV
    > this last school year while attempting to cross the road to catch a school bus. He survived, but
    > still struggles with brain injury-related disabilities.
    >
    > The north end of the lake road runs through the City of Redmond, and I assisted in the successful
    > political effort to repave the roadway, and create a pedestrian and bicycle facility on the east
    > side of the road. These improvements will stop dead now at the City line.
    >
    > From my perspective, West Lake Sammamish improvements are a no-brainer. Right now it looks like
    > the side road to Bubba's Moonshine Shack, not a proud boulevard running by multi-million dollar
    > homes. Of course the roadway needs to be resurfaced. Of course we need a safer environment for
    > cyclists and pedestrians. More traffic means more we need to improve the road, not keep it in a
    > deteriorated condition, hoping that all those cars, bikes, and pedestrians will just go away.
    >
    > The bbq was not widely publicized -- it was mainly aimed at people who live along the Lake Road,
    > as opposed to spandex-clad activists. I found out about it surreptiously. Respecting the City's
    > wishes not to rile up the residents attending, generally I did not reveal myself to be the chair
    > of the city's Bike-Ped Advisory Group. Instead, I came up to people and said things like, "Oh --
    > do you live on the lake road? What are your concerns?"
    >
    > I was stunned by the unbridled hostility from the lake side residents. They hate bicycles.
    > Cyclists don't care about property values. Cyclists don't have to ride bikes. They certainly could
    > choose to ride somewhere else. Who cares about safety. Safety is not important. No children are
    > ever going to want to walk on West Lake Sammamish anyway. (Since Billy was struck, that might be
    > true -- how many parents are going to have their child catch the school bus on that road these
    > days? Hm? They're going to drive that kid in the SUV to school instead, doncha think?) Repaving
    > the road will just encourage more speeders. Adding a shoulder or bike lane will just encourage
    > more speeders. We will hire lawyers. We will fight these improvements tooth and nail, and we have
    > the money to be able to do that. The City had better watch out.
    >
    > In sum: we hate bicyclists. We hate pedestrians. We hate anyone using the road for any other
    > purpose other than to drive to their lakeside or lake view home. And the operative word here is
    > *hate* -- the level of emotional venom was bracing.
    >
    > After the bbq, I felt I needed a decontamination room from absorbing so much bad feeling. And this
    > without saying, "hi, I'm a cyclist who was an activist regarding the Redmond effort", or "I chair
    > the city's bicycle/pedestrian advisory group". This was without stirring up their hornets' nest of
    > hostility. When people voiced their feelings, I did not do any defense of the proposed
    > improvements, the needs of non-motorized transportation, etc. I just listened.
    >
    > The day and lord knows, the hour will come, when I will not be just sitting there politely
    > listening. I will be actively organizing, testifying, writing, facilitating. There may have been
    > only a few bicycling and pedestrian activists at the bbq, and we kept our profile pretty low.
    > There will be scores of them at other fora, just like we had in Redmond, and we will speak out.
    >
    > The prospect of this level of negative emotional energy that I am going to provoke is scary for
    > me. I will need to draw on my meditation training to keep myself logical, focused, and at the same
    > time, compassionate and open-hearted.
    >
    > Pray for me, friends, pray for me.
    >
    > Warm Regards,
    >
    > Claire Petersky ([email protected]) Home of the meditative cyclist:
    > http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm Singing with you at: http://www.tiferet.net/
    > Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at: http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
     
  3. >I'm going to lay it all out here --

    <snip>

    OK, how was the food?

    --

    _______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
    the Texas Elvis"------------------
    __________306.350.357.38>>[email protected]__________
     
  4. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

  5. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (Claire Petersky) writes:

    > Adding a shoulder or bike lane will just encourage more speeders. We will hire lawyers. We will
    > fight these improvements tooth and nail, and we have the money to be able to do that. The City had
    > better watch out.

    If they can afford lawyers for all that, they surely could afford to put up for some traffic calming
    measures, which can be quite decorative (double-duty as planters, etc). Such beautifications can
    actually enhance property values. Better than a shabby, decrepit old road, anyways.

    > In sum: we hate bicyclists. We hate pedestrians. We hate anyone using the road for any other
    > purpose other than to drive to their lakeside or lake view home. And the operative word here is
    > *hate* -- the level of emotional venom was bracing.

    Sounds like the old gated community/seige mentality thing, and hate springing from fear of the
    "different" people (viz: cyclists and pedestrians).

    The City of Vancouver has addressed such fears as increased speeds, increased crime and decreased
    property values along our bike routes, with an online FAQ for residents along such bike routes.
    Here's an excerpt:

    (http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/engsvcs/transport/cycling/faqresidents.htm_
    ---
    "4.How will a bicycle route affect my street or neighbourhood? Will crime increase? Will property
    values decrease?

    You likely will not notice much change on your street. For example, we have observed over 60
    cyclists per hour during rush hour on many existing routes in Vancouver. In comparison, a typical
    local street may have 100 automobiles during that same time. Traffic calming measures (such as
    medians, diverters and traffic circles) are proposed to reduce non-local car traffic on the bikeway
    and are often viewed by residents as positive additions to a neighbourhood.

    Previous studies indicate that property values and crime rates are not affected by bike routes.
    Cyclists on bike routes, like commuters in cars, are generally headed to a specific destination and
    are not interested in lingering in neighbourhoods. Unlike automobile commuters, cyclists travel at
    slower speeds and may provide an 'eyes on the street' presence in the neighbourhood."
    ---

    So, maybe these Lake Road residents can be sold on the idea of the road improvements, with a little,
    gentle, marketing approach. Gotta be gentle with scaredy-cats.

    cheers, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     
  6. The resistance of the mansion-dwellers to bikes near their homes is due to simple, primitive
    thinking. They feel that if people on lowly, cheap vehicles can pass nearby, then their most
    substantial display of conspicuous consumption will be degraded. In their minds, their million
    dollar plus houses are there to put them at a status level untouchable by common folk. They're
    mostly Nouveau Riche-----lots of newly-acquired money and few of the redeeming qualities of the
    better types of humanity.

    Don't bother confronting or trying to reason with them, but find ways to ignore or bypass them.
    They contribute little to bettering society outside of their own elitist interests. Figure out
    how to avoid pulling their chains too hard and you won't likely hear much from them.

    However, if the current bill in Congress to abolish bikepath funding and rail-conversions
    passes into law, this type of fat-cat will score a big one over us and much of what I've said
    will be moot. There must be a few hardcore right-wingers out there who are also serious
    bicyclists. Can you imagine how confused and frustrated their thinking processes must be
    these days?

    Steve McDonald
     
  7. On 2003-07-25 at 17:23:04 PST Claire Petersky ([email protected]) wrote:

    > The prospect of this level of negative emotional energy that I am going to provoke is
    > scary for me.

    the answer is easy: seek strength in numbers. organize NOW to turn out riders from all over the
    seattle area at the hearing(s). get the cascade bike clubs advocacy folks working with you to turn
    out as many riders as possible.

    recruit other cyclists who ride the route to carry flyers with them and hand them out to all the
    other cyclists.

    finally, do some advance legwork to find out how the city council and county council members
    involved stand on the issue. if necessary, find cyclists close to them (in business, as
    acquaintances, or politically) to speak to them personally.

    if you can determine the undecided council members, make sure they get a LOT of mail on the topic
    (in my past organizing efforts around community planning issues, i've found that check-the-box
    pre-addressed postcards work VERY well, and they are easy to hand out).

    now that you've heard all the bogus arguments, prepare logical statements to counter the emotional
    arguments. talk about fairness. talk about the fact that there's no way to eliminate the road, so it
    should be fixed to be safe.
     
  8. Jym Dyer

    Jym Dyer Guest

    > In sum: we hate bicyclists. We hate pedestrians. We hate anyone using the road for any other
    > purpose other than to drive to their lakeside or lake view home.

    =v= The word "impede" derives from putting shackles on feet. Similarly, the word "expedite" derives
    from freeing the feet. Those driving that road are shackled to their polluting beasts and all that
    entails, and are insane with rage over those who are free. <_Jym_
     
  9. I think what Claire has run into is your typical people who think, now that they're wealthy (or
    maybe because they've always been wealthy), they can throw money at anything they personally don't
    like, for whatever reason, and make it go away.

    Sounds like the spoiled brats need to learn a lesson.
    --
    Trudi "And, with that cryptic comment, I'm going to bed." --Mike, Mystery Science Theater 3000
    ____
    Say NO to secret judging and corruption in skating -- support SkateFAIR! http://www.skatefair.org
     
  10. "Eric S. Sande" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > >I'm going to lay it all out here --
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > OK, how was the food?

    Grilled weinies, buns, condiments and the usual collection of what our family terms "hot dog
    vegetables" (sauerkraut, relish, pickles, onions); chips; sodas and water. I think watermelon would
    have been a nice touch, would have complemented the summertime feel of the event, would not have
    significantly added to the expense, and would have balanced out the junk food on offer. But this is
    the City paying for all this free food (and for people who could well afford to pay for
    it), so you can't demand too much.

    I noticed it was the few cyclists there who were trying to get more than their allotted share of
    one weinie.

    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky ([email protected]) Home of the meditative cyclist:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm Singing with you at: http://www.tiferet.net/ Books
    just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at: http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
     
  11. [email protected] (Claire Petersky) wrote
    >
    > In sum: we hate bicyclists. We hate pedestrians. We hate anyone using the road for any other
    > purpose other than to drive to their lakeside or lake view home. And the operative word here is
    > *hate* -- the level of emotional venom was bracing.

    Ah, the sound of cognitive dissonance.

    If those people you were talking to were thinking at all clearly, they would realize that bicycles
    are not the cause of the anger and frustration that is boiling up here. But to face the real cause
    would require them to question their own choices. This only serves to increase the venom leveled at
    the chosen scapegoat. The hostility toward cyclists and peds, the SUV craze, the gated community
    thing, all of these are signs of an embattled, terrified society. The more frightened they become,
    the more irrational and hostile their denial becomes. Look at that nitwit from California on the
    "Share the Road" thread who's convinced that cycling will cause billions of dollars in economic
    damage. Or suburban homeowners who band together to angrily protest when the city wants to install
    sidewalks on their streets.

    It's an unfortunate fact, but every time you throw your leg over a bicycle it's a political act.
    Simply by being there, you challenge the structure of illusion by which such people justify
    their entire

    riding a bicycle is a subversive act.

    > The day and lord knows, the hour will come, when I will not be just sitting there politely
    > listening. I will be actively organizing, testifying, writing, facilitating.

    Give 'em hell.

    CC
     
  12. [email protected] (Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message
    news:<tsg4ivc8ls4amirbjmse8prgckee[email protected]>...
    > On 2003-07-25 at 17:23:04 PST Claire Petersky ([email protected]) wrote:
    >
    > > The prospect of this level of negative emotional energy that I am going to provoke is scary
    > > for me.
    >
    > the answer is easy: seek strength in numbers.

    Actually, we have strength in numbers. We got 500+ people to join Friends of Lake Sammamish
    (http://www.lakesammfriends.org/) as a part of the Redmond effort. We had dozens of people for every
    Redmond City Council meeting ready to testify. The Redmond City Council requested us to please,
    please, please *stop* all the damn letters and emails because they were being snowed under by all
    the people (primarily bicyclists, some pedestrians) contacting them in support of the project.

    One of the things that was very helpful was having *local* residents speak on the behalf of the
    project. As a Bellevue resident, I mostly kept my mouth shut publicly, and having a Seattle person
    speak would have been at best neutral.

    One thing that will help is that out of my forty-ahem years of life, all but ten of them have been
    spent as a Bellevue resident. You know about the popsicle index? It's a measure of the quality of
    life for a community, and it works like this: it's the percentage of people who would feel
    comfortable sending their kid to the local convenience store to buy a popsicle. When I was a kid, my
    best friend lived on the lake (when normal people could afford to live on the lake), and we'd walk
    from her house to the Little Store to buy popsicles. I can tell that story, and ask, what's the
    popsicle index for that road today? Outside agitators, especially spandex clad and from Seattle, are
    highly, highly suspicious. If you say you are a local resident, when you come in with your kids,
    when you talk about safety for your children, not just yourself -- these are winners.

    What would be great would be to find a lakeside resident willing to speak on the behalf of the
    project, but peer pressure is very great. On the Redmond project we had lakeside residents tell us
    privately that they supported the City's improvements, but didn't dare say anything because they
    have to live next door to all these people for the rest of their lives, and don't want to stick
    their necks out.

    I am fairly confident about having the numbers, but that doesn't mean that I won't be a target for
    all this hostility. In fact, the more numbers, the more we'll of course rile them all up.

    These improvements were floated about 8 or 10 years ago, and there was a huge firestorm, and the
    whole thing was abandoned. The city planner associated with the project quit. The advocates on our
    bike-ped group who lived through it back then all say they want nothing to do with it this time.

    > finally, do some advance legwork to find out how the city council and county council members
    > involved stand on the issue. if necessary, find cyclists close to them (in business, as
    > acquaintances, or politically) to speak to them personally.

    The mayor does a little recreational riding herself, which is more than you could usually hope for.

    > now that you've heard all the bogus arguments, prepare logical statements to counter the emotional
    > arguments. talk about fairness. talk about the fact that there's no way to eliminate the road, so
    > it should be fixed to be safe.

    They wouldn't want to *eliminate* the road, just put gates on either end of it, and keep the
    non-residents out.

    As for the arguments, they're pretty clear: enhance property values, increase safety for everyone
    (bicycles and peds, sure, but also motorists too), support cycling to *reduce* the numbers of cars
    that are commuting (the residents on the road consider car commuters to be close to agents of the
    Dark Lord).

    Yes, we don't have to ride our bikes past their homes. If rb*'s own Dane didn't ride his bike past
    their houses on his way to work, he might be driving his car. If I didn't take my kids on our
    tandem on the bike lane on that road on the weekend, maybe I'd be driving past their house,
    driving ourselves to a different location to ride bikes. Who makes a smaller impact -- more cars
    or our bikes?

    The argument I don't have is that widening the roadway for the bike lane will steepen already very
    steep driveways. Basically, people have built homes on slopes that are nearly clifflike. If you make
    a larger flat area where the road is, some people's driveways will get even steeper. It's physically
    the only way it can work. Already, firefighters can't get their trucks up and down these driveways.
    They have to connect hoses from the road to be able to reach the homes, either up from the road or
    down from the road. They can connect hoses very fast -- that's their job -- but considering how long
    these driveways are, it may not be fast enough. One family's fancy house burnt to the ground because
    the driveway was too steep for the fire trucks.

    My gut feeling is, it's your own damn fault for buying a house on a slope that shouldn't have been
    built on in the first place. Erosion and its results have damaged the ecology of the whole area.
    Your trade-off for your great view may be an increased risk of having the thing burn to a cinder --
    live with it. But I can't say that, now can I? After all, the counter is: you enjoy riding your
    bike, you have the increased risk of being whacked by cars -- live with it.

    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky ([email protected]) Home of the meditative cyclist:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm Singing with you at: http://www.tiferet.net/ Books
    just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at: http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
     
  13. Thus said [email protected] (Tom Keats):
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] (Claire Petersky) writes:
    >> Adding a shoulder or bike lane will just encourage more speeders. We will hire lawyers. We will
    >> fight these improvements tooth and nail, and we have the money to be able to do that. The City
    >> had better watch out.
    >
    >If they can afford lawyers for all that, they surely could afford to put up for some traffic
    >calming measures, which can be quite decorative (double-duty as planters, etc).

    We're not talking about a residential street here, but a road where traffic calming isn't
    appropriate. It was a significant road before they built their houses there.

    >> In sum: we hate bicyclists. We hate pedestrians. We hate anyone using the road for any other
    >> purpose other than to drive to their lakeside or lake view home. And the operative word here is
    >> *hate* -- the level of emotional venom was bracing.

    Sounds like the equivalent of people who buy a house near the airport and then start complaining
    about the noise. Fortunately, for every 1 rich snob who doesn't want the road he lives in improved,
    there are probably 100 other rich snobs who do want it improved so they can drive down it faster on
    their way from one sterile-Eastside-location to another.

    Also, we can take delight in the fact that, the next time there's a good heavy rain, their lake-view
    house will become a lake-floating-in-the house. And they'll sue the city over that too, claiming it
    was the city's own fault for letting them build somewhere that the slope is unstable.
     
  14. Cyclist101

    Cyclist101 Guest

    Corvus Corvax wrote:
    > [email protected] (Claire Petersky) wrote
    >
    >>In sum: we hate bicyclists. We hate pedestrians. We hate anyone using the road for any other
    >>purpose other than to drive to their lakeside or lake view home. And the operative word here is
    >>*hate* -- the level of emotional venom was bracing.
    >
    > Ah, the sound of cognitive dissonance.
    >
    > If those people you were talking to were thinking at all clearly, they would realize that bicycles
    > are not the cause of the anger and frustration that is boiling up here. But to face the real cause
    > would require them to question their own choices. This only serves to increase the venom leveled
    > at the chosen scapegoat.

    You mean like "SUV craze" and "gated community thing" and "embattled, terrified society"? What's
    wrong with *others* having freedoms to drive what they want, live where and how they want, etc.?

    > The hostility toward cyclists and peds, the SUV craze, the gated community thing, all of these are
    > signs of an embattled, terrified society. The more frightened they become, the more irrational and
    > hostile their denial becomes. Look at that nitwit from California on the "Share the Road" thread
    > who's convinced that cycling will cause billions of dollars in economic damage. Or suburban
    > homeowners who band together to angrily protest when the city wants to install sidewalks on their
    > streets.

    Neighborhoods should be free to determine their own destiny. They have property values to
    protect. They live there. Why should they be subjected to intrusions or mandates from others who
    don't live there?

    > It's an unfortunate fact, but every time you throw your leg over a bicycle it's a political act.
    > Simply by being there, you challenge the structure of illusion by which such people justify
    > their entire

    > riding a bicycle is a subversive act.

    That's rank hyperbole.

    >>The day and lord knows, the hour will come, when I will not be just sitting there politely
    >>listening. I will be actively organizing, testifying, writing, facilitating.
    >
    > Give 'em hell.

    All interests are better solved by finding an acceptable middle ground. Giving hell doesn't solve
    problems, it only creates more of them.
     
  15. >Giving hell doesn't solve problems, it only creates more of them.

    This reminds me of the "Klingle Road dispute" (type that into a search engine for details) in the
    other Washington.

    --

    _______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
    the Texas Elvis"------------------
    __________306.350.357.38>>[email protected]__________
     
  16. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (Claire Petersky) writes:

    > But this is the City paying for all this free food (and for people who could well afford
    > to pay for
    > it), so you can't demand too much.

    Can't argue about free growlies. But I can't help being reminded of the Simpsons episode where Homer
    is lured into Perdition by the aroma of BBQ, only to be inevitably disappointed:

    "Aw, they're out of hot dogs.

    And the coleslaw has pineapple in it!

    Aghhh!! /German/ potato salad!"

    cheers, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     
  17. Thus said cyclist101 <[email protected]>:
    >Neighborhoods should be free to determine their own destiny. They have property values to
    >protect. They live there. Why should they be subjected to intrusions or mandates from others who
    >don't live there?

    This isn't a neighborhood. It's a parkway, a major through road which was originally built along a
    lakeshore. Then, much later, people built a few houses along it. That doesn't suddenly give them
    exclusive rights to decide what happens to important public arterials.
     
  18. Here in Toronto, we've recently had a 'win' in this department. City council was wise enough to
    avoid an attempt to overturn a key component of the official bicycle plan - a bike lane on Dundas
    Street East.

    One unusual sounding part of the debate was that it was the residents and business community along
    the street that wanted the bike lane - which will reduce the 4 lane street into two car lanes plus
    two bike lanes and parking. I believe the parking will be all day, rather than only available
    outside of rush hours, hence the business' support.

    The Toronto Star opposed the bike lane, but admits the traffic flow is currently at 70 kph (~45 mph)
    despite being posted at 40 kph (25 mph.) They opine the traffic may return to near-legal speeds once
    the bike lanes are in place.

    The attempted derailing of the plan would have had further reaching implications as well, as it
    would have made all such proposals go to the city works committee, rather than the community
    councils that may approve them now. This would have stopped all of this years changes, and
    saddlebagged all future ones with an extra layer of bureaucracy.

    - Brian Huntley
     
  19. Cyclist101

    Cyclist101 Guest

    Kevan Smith wrote:
    >>Neighborhoods should be free to determine their own destiny. They have property values to
    >>protect. They live there. Why should they be subjected to intrusions or mandates from others who
    >>don't live there?
    >
    > Streets are usually public. If they want private roads, they can pay for them on their own. But I
    > don't think they'll be wanting to buy a highway, even if they were allowed.

    Most streets in gated communities, which CC mentioned, *are* private.
     
  20. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:38:55 -0500, <[email protected]>, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]/\/\> wrote: \szip
    >I don't even think about eating hot dogs unless I can have at least three. One per person? Sheesh.
    >That's just teasing.

    One tofu veggie dog is sufficient for me, thanks.
    --
    zk
     
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