Unbridled Hostility

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Claire Petersky, Jul 25, 2003.

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  1. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tom Keats) writes:

    > a shrimp & avacado aspic to go with it, deliciously presented with an underlay of iceberg lettuce
    > leaves and mayo.

    I forgot to mention, the mayo would be slightly tweeked with a little horseradish, lemon squeeze,
    garlic, and a thimbleful of Noilly Pratt French Extra Dry vermouth. And a quick squirt of
    Worcestershire. And maybe two or three twists of the pepper grinder.

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     


  2. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] (Trudi Marrapodi) writes:
    >
    > > Too bad Homer didn't know that German potato salad is God's potato salad!
    > > Mmmmm...bacon.
    >
    > Sounds better than what I've seen passed off as German potato salad -- basically, cold potatoes
    > soused a little with vinegar.

    Oh no, that's not German potato salad. In real German potato salad, the potatoes are nice and hot
    and mooshy, with plenty of bacon, fried onion, vinegar, sugar and the all-important celery seed.

    > But does God really eat bacon?

    Of course. God doesn't need to keep kosher.

    > And what does She have to say about coleslaw with pineapple in it?

    I think there's something in Leviticus admonishing the people not to eat that which pertaineth to
    mayonnaise and cabbage with that which pertaineth to tropical fruit, for it is an abomination
    unto the Lord.

    > I'd love to fire up the barbecue right now, myself -- just for an excuse to make a shrimp &
    > avacado aspic to go with it, deliciously presented with an underlay of iceberg lettuce leaves and
    > mayo. Jerk chicken, and portobello mushroom ka-bobs. And two kinds of potato salad ;-) And
    > coleslaw sans pineapple (or raisins, for that matter.) And watermelon. Maybe even a casaba. And
    > all kinds of pickles and cold cuts, and a couple of cheeses.
    >
    > Sometimes I wish I could cater group rides, just to give a break to those groups who usually just
    > get hot dogs and PBJ samwidges. Maybe a cargo pedicab with some sort of alt-energy refrigeration
    > unit could make a viable chuckwagon.
    >
    >
    > cheers, Tom
    >

    Darn...you've got me really hungry now...
    --
    Trudi "And, with that cryptic comment, I'm going to bed." --Mike, Mystery Science Theater 3000
    ____
    Say NO to secret judging and corruption in skating -- support SkateFAIR! http://www.skatefair.org
     
  3. Archer

    Archer Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] (Trudi Marrapodi) writes:
    >
    > > Too bad Homer didn't know that German potato salad is God's potato salad!
    > > Mmmmm...bacon.
    >
    > Sounds better than what I've seen passed off as German potato salad -- basically, cold potatoes
    > soused a little with vinegar. But does God really eat bacon? And what does She have to say about
    > coleslaw with pineapple in it?

    "It's all good if somebody likes it!"

    > I'd love to fire up the barbecue right now, myself -- just for an excuse to make a shrimp &
    > avacado aspic to go with it, deliciously presented with an underlay of iceberg lettuce leaves and
    > mayo. Jerk chicken, and portobello mushroom ka-bobs. And two kinds of potato salad ;-) And
    > coleslaw sans pineapple (or raisins, for that matter.) And watermelon. Maybe even a casaba. And
    > all kinds of pickles and cold cuts, and a couple of cheeses.
    >
    > Sometimes I wish I could cater group rides, just to give a break to those groups who usually just
    > get hot dogs and PBJ samwidges. Maybe a cargo pedicab with some sort of alt-energy refrigeration
    > unit could make a viable chuckwagon.
    >
    >
    > cheers, Tom
    >
    >

    --
    David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
    it's morning".

    Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.
     
  4. [All the text about road "rejuvenation" snipped]

    Claire,

    I have no experience on the political side, nor do I know the area.

    However, here are a few ideas that might help:

    - Their fear of cyclists might come from "expected numbers", which I don'T think is a problem. But
    it might also come from bad experience with cyclists, especially with those using the dual-way
    bike lane on the wrong side of the road. You could even quote some statistics from the carfree or
    chainguard group, or from John Forester's website to tell them about the hazards of wrong-way
    cyclists and to show them that having properly designed bike lanes would avoid some of these
    conflicts. There is nothing worst for a driver than trying to get out of their driveway ahd having
    to cross a bidirectional bike path and enter in a busy road.

    If necessary and if there is enough room, could some driveways be re-arranged so that people could
    drive forward in and out of their yard?

    - Problems for kids (and cyclists) trying to cross the street. Some "low-key" claming measures, such
    as mid-road flower pots can also be used as refuges for pedestrians crossing the street. Or there
    could be a few pedestrian traffic lights -- near school bus stops, for example.

    - Depending on topography, traffic lights might be useful. There might be a series of traffic
    lights synchronised for, say, 50 km/h (or whatever safe posted speed). One system popular in
    small French villages is a radar-enabled traffic light. It stays green in the main direction
    unless there is traffic in the side street... or unless cars go faster than 50 km/h. Just one or
    two of these, with a good sign telling drivers about that, and you'll have lots of people driving
    at a proper speed.

    - Sidewalks. Since you generally don't have snow, the sidewalks could be installed _outside_ the
    ditch, putting walkers further away from the road.
     
  5. On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:59:30 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>
    >One tofu veggie dog is sufficient for me, thanks.

    That would be more than enough for me.

    larry
    --
    To reply by e-mail, be polite. Rudeness will get you nowhere.
     
  6. Dave Jackson

    Dave Jackson Guest

  7. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:40:38 GMT, Mike Kruger <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> I don't even think about eating hot dogs unless I can have at least three.
    > One per person? Sheesh. That's just teasing.
    >
    > Our local club has an annual "hot dog ride", which involves rest stops at SuperDawg, Mustard's
    > Last Stand, and similar places. I think there's a prize for the most hot dogs eaten. Sounds like
    > just your type of social ride.

    I wonder if there's anything like that here in Rhode Island. As a state, we are pretty big on
    phallic-shaped meats. You're likely to get your ear talked off if you refer to a hot dog as a
    weiner, though; as weiners are an entirely different, if similarly shaped and served, thing.

    We have "New York System Weiners" here, which were invented here (not in NY) AFAIK; these weiner
    joints are all over the place, especially in urban areas. We also have a small chain of hot dog
    resteraunts called Spikes Junkyard Dogs with non-standard toppings for really incredibly good [and
    large] hot dogs.

    I'd like to go on a ride where I could compete with other riders for eating weiners and dogs. I
    could certainly place in THAT competition!

    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  8. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:17:36 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> from The Esoteric c0wz'
    Society wrote:

    >I'd like to go on a ride where I could compete with other riders for eating weiners and dogs. I
    >could certainly place in THAT competition!

    OK, we'll put this on the agenda for the RBM get together in the Dakotas.

    --
    http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace HAIR TONICS, please!!
    4:59:39 PM 28 July 2003
     
  9. Larry Schuldt <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:59:30 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >>
    > >One tofu veggie dog is sufficient for me, thanks.
    >
    > That would be more than enough for me.
    >
    > larry

    Some of the things committed in the name of tofu make me sick.

    why form it into things that it isn't? it's perfectly all right as tofu.

    suggestion: fry some so the outside is crisp. cut into cubes. Dip into a mixture of soy sauce, and
    rice vinegar (preferrably, a bottle which you have been infusing with black peppercorns, & little
    red chillies), and finely-chopped onions. You can also mix all the ingredients together. try to eat
    before the tofu gets all soggy.

    the meat-eaters can add pigs' ears and/or cheeks, sliced, grilled, and boiled to the mix, to make
    the whole thing (called Tokwa't Baboy) complete.

    -Luigi (pssst, Van! 'yan. ayos na ang pulutan. kulang nalang ng beer...)
     
  10. I'm hanging this off of Tom's post, but it's sort of a longish reply to a number of them...

    [email protected] (Steve McDonald) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > The resistance of the mansion-dwellers to bikes near their homes is due to simple, primitive
    > thinking. They feel that if people on lowly, cheap vehicles can pass nearby, then their most
    > substantial display of conspicuous consumption will be degraded.

    Actually, generally speaking, you can't see these people's houses. The steep slope and number of
    trees between the road and the where the houses sit on the lake or up on the hill means that they
    are hidden.

    > Don't bother confronting or trying to reason with them, but find ways to ignore or bypass
    > them.

    The real audience is the City Council. But if the City Council does not want discord when the
    recommendation is presented to them – that would be unseemly. They want all the yelling to happen
    before that time. If we can't compromise, nothing will be done. The road will continue to
    deteriorate; unsafe conditions will only worsen for everyone.

    [email protected] (Trudi Marrapodi) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I think what Claire has run into is your typical people who think, now that they're wealthy (or
    > maybe because they've always been wealthy), they can throw money at anything they personally don't
    > like, for whatever reason, and make it go away.
    >
    > Sounds like the spoiled brats need to learn a lesson.

    Which is why, when we won in Redmond, the mayor of the City of Woodinville wrote a letter in
    congratulations to the Redmond City Council, for standing up to the wealthy lakeside homeowners. I'm
    don't know if our council has similar balls.

    When I asked a parkway resident what alternative the cars should take, rather than the parkway, the
    answer was 164th Avenue, ie, mostly a neighborhood of these little 1950s starter home ramblers that
    probably have the lowest housing values in our city. I was sorely tempted to ask why people who live
    right on a road (rather than having major set-backs with a big curtain of trees) should have all the
    cars whizzing by, but again, this was my time to listen, not argue.

    Patrick Lamb <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > Just out of curiosity, has anyone surveyed the area for the density of Asperger's
    > Syndrome-afflicted residents? It sounds to me as though this should be a support group, instead of
    > a city-sponsored barbecue. (If AS support group isn't already an oxymoron!)

    Y'know, I have some AS members of my immediate and extended family, and I'd much rather deal with
    Aspies than deal with this crowd. My experience with Aspies is that they have no hidden agenda –
    what you see is what you get – and ones I know are terribly concerned with fairness. I could work
    with Aspies.

    > (I should guess that there's probably a high proportion of residents, if it is a MS suburb, that's
    > getting to middle age and finding it difficult to keep up with the endless 20-hour work days,
    > enormous pressure, and unrealistic deadlines. And if they've been there long enough to buy the
    > multi-million houses with the proceeds of stock options, they probably don't know or don't
    > remember that sane work places exist. Or that it's possible to work AND have a life...)

    I will just note that I believe that people who live along the lake are generally not Microsofties,
    nor do Microsofties live along the lake. Rather, it is the Microsoft employees who are targeted here
    as the Evil Ones who speed along the parkway, desperate to make it into the enslavement camp in a
    timely fashion.

    In fact, you'd find a number of current and former MS employees among the cyclists who will be
    fighting for these facilities, as the parkway is a major bike-commuting route. Thinking of the
    Redmond effort, I'm now realizing that nearly all of the people who fought for the bicycle and
    pedestrian improvements were either existing or former MS employees, or married to one, or both.

    Rather, the people who I met at the barbecue were older (50s and 60s) boating types. If I were to
    guess their PRIZM demographic group, I'd say Pools and Patios (http://houseandhome.msn.com/pickapla-
    ce/demographicdetail.aspx?id=4&NHName=Bellevue+(98008)&Zip=98008&County=King&State=WA&sRegion=p%3a7-
    600&src=nf or if you prefer: http://tinyurl.com/cf3c)

    [email protected] (Chalo) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > The Eastside is lost, Claire. There really isn't anything there worth trying to improve. That area
    > suffers the characteristic blight of many suburbs; it's an anti-community of people who chose
    > their place of residence based on what they were trying to avoid, rather than on an environment
    > they wanted to be a part of. It's a living testament to how fear, greed, arrogance and hate are
    > antithetical to right action.
    >
    > Move into town; you'll recognize a lot more rational human beings around you.

    Someone from a bicycling organization deigned to come to the Eastside (first time that's happened
    that I've noticed) and attended the barbecue. Someone else from the bike-ped advisory group and I
    talked with him for a bit, and rather than him having anything constructive to say, he spent 90% of
    his air time with us putting down the Eastside.

    Chalo, I know you meant only the best when you wrote unpleasant things about where I grew up and
    where I've lived about three-quarters of my life, because you invited me to leave it and go to some
    place that you consider to be more enlightened. However, believe it or not, I like my house and my
    little neighborhood, and unlike your stereotypes, not all people around me are full of all the nasty
    attributes you listed. You may not believe that there is anything to improve – maybe I should leave
    it as that I beg to differ.

    [email protected] (Tom Keats) speculated in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > I wonder if there are any Native land claims on this area.

    Archeology shows that natives lived along the lake as early as 6,000 years ago, with a major
    settlement at the Redmond end of the lake around 1000 BCE. In the 1850s, the Sammamish clan of the
    Duwamish tribe numbered about one hundred. The usual hostilities ensued between white settlers and
    the natives, and they were eventually either killed or disbursed. The remnants of this band
    currently live with the Tulalips near Everett.

    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky ([email protected]) Home of the meditative cyclist:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm Singing with you at: http://www.tiferet.net/ Books
    just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at: http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
     
  11. dane

    dane Guest

    Claire Petersky <[email protected]> wrote:

    > One of the things that was very helpful was having *local* residents speak on the behalf of the
    > project. As a Bellevue resident, I mostly kept my mouth shut publicly, and having a Seattle person
    > speak would have been at best neutral.

    I doubt it would matter who spoke out. These people are all part of the religion of "No Change".
    They are comfortable in their niche, and they don't care about anything else. Anything that changes
    their environment is greeted not with a rational balancing of relative good and bad aspects, but
    rationalization. i.e. I don't like it, so here's a list of reasons to justify why I don't like it.

    I know I would like to see the project go through, because I do use the road everyday. I travel on
    the side of the road that is decently traffic friendly (even if the pavement does needs work). But I
    do hate to see the bike commuters coming the other way (riding against traffic). Ick.

    --
    Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g "Nothing says 'This is serious' like a
    corpse on the floor." -Thanks to Michelle Wincek
     
  12. Karen M.

    Karen M. Guest

    Claire wrote:
    > ... One of the things that was very helpful was having *local* residents speak on the behalf of
    > the project. As a Bellevue resident, I mostly kept my mouth shut publicly, and having a Seattle
    > person speak would have been at best neutral.
    >
    > One thing that will help is that out of my forty-ahem years of life, all but ten of them have been
    > spent as a Bellevue resident. You know about the popsicle index? It's a measure of the quality of
    > life for a community, and it works like this: it's the percentage of people who would feel
    > comfortable sending their kid to the local convenience store to buy a popsicle. When I was a kid,
    > my best friend lived on the lake (when normal people could afford to live on the lake), and we'd
    > walk from her house to the Little Store to buy popsicles. I can tell that story, and ask, what's
    > the popsicle index for that road today? Outside agitators, especially spandex clad and from
    > Seattle, are highly, highly suspicious. If you say you are a local resident, when you come in with
    > your kids, when you talk about safety for your children, not just yourself -- these are winners.
    >
    > What would be great would be to find a lakeside resident willing to speak on the behalf of the
    > project, but peer pressure is very great. On the Redmond project we had lakeside residents tell us
    > privately that they supported the City's improvements, but didn't dare say anything because they
    > have to live next door to all these people for the rest of their lives, and don't want to stick
    > their necks out....

    How about contacting the local school and finding someone in the PTO who's an advocate for the
    Safe Routes to School thing? Although the Pool & Patio types are pretty much out of the kid
    business, there's gotta be some older dad with a young wife who is So Concerned About Our
    Children. Last fall I attended a SRTS seminar (co-sponsored by state DOT) and met with a Mother
    type who lives in a 'hood with a golf course and no sidewalks. Their fear is that the 19th-holers
    will hit children trying to walk anywhere, so it's "soccer moms, start your engines!" They wanted
    more concrete to make themselves feel safe. I turned her on to the idea of a walk/bike to school
    day, and hallelulah! She became the local contact for this effort! (I also suggested increased
    enforcement around closing time, traffic calming, neighborhood watch to get the kids to & from
    safely, and other non-engineering endeavors.) You could also sneak in some info on property
    values from other locales where rail-trails are being implemented. Not quite the same thing, but
    even those who typically voiced the loudest opposition (about vagrants riding out from the rail
    yards and dumping trash, stealing their stuff, and urinating) change their tune when the trail
    turns out to be a realtor feature. Maybe the car repair angle? Those busted-up roads have to be
    affecting the suspension in the Beemer. Traffic safety? Swerving around potholes might smash into
    someone's land yacht or landscaping. Fire truck thing: sounds like an earthquake-sort of land use
    to me. Can they get insurance? Are they on city water (with hydrants)? They can always make their
    lucious approach drives into switchbacks and landscape the heck out of them. Maybe they need
    private fire service on a higher elevation. As for private gated road: not if they want
    maintenance and police protection and mail delivery. HTH. What a potential headache. --Karen M.
     
  13. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (Karen M.) writes:

    > Not quite the same thing, but even those who typically voiced the loudest opposition (about
    > vagrants riding out from the rail yards and dumping trash, stealing their stuff, and urinating)
    > change their tune when the trail turns out to be a realtor feature.

    I've seen the same sort of thing happen here. Nay sayers become yea sayers, especially when such
    improvements have had a good history and reputation nearby.

    You've got a whole bunch of good ideas.

    cheers, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     
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