Unconstitutional requirement for a marriage license?



On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:

>
><Juan Horovitz> wrote
>
>> >I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real Moses.
>The
>> >whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
>>
>> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction and what is not with regards to
>> those times.
>
>
>Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were more Hebrews
>in Egypt than there were Egyptians:
>
>[8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
>[9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier
> than we:
>
>And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all the Hebrews out of Egypt and in the
>process devestated the Egyptian army. The thing is, though, that the only document where this story
>is found is in the Bible. The event, according to Bible experts, supposedly happened around 1500
>BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been digging in Egypt, while they have a pretty
>clear picture of all the events in Egypt from way before 1500 BC to current time, there is
>absolutely no reference made to the catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to
>losing over half its population, no reference to the army's destruction. And there is no reference
>to the event found in neighboring areas of the middle east, either. If the event had occurred,
>there would definitely be some corroborating evidence found by the archeologists. Had Egypt's army
>been wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have done is sweep in and take
>control, taking advantage of the situation. But, that didn't happen. So, since the cataclysmic
>events outlined in the Bible are not confirmed by evidence, and since people have a predisposition
>to making up stories, it is highly probable that the biblical story of the Exodus is fiction.
>
>And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how much do you suppose the rest of it is
>fiction as well? Probably most of it.
>
>If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how vile and contemptable you may
>be, you will not be going to Hell after all. But, you will have to live with yourself for the time
>being, and that's probably enough punishment . . .

In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of proof that
what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a religious diatribe.

--
Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.

>--Tock
 
<Juan Horovitz> wrote

> >I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real Moses.
The
> >whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
>
> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction and what is not with regards to
> those times.

Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were more Hebrews in
Egypt than there were Egyptians:

[8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
[9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and
mightier than we:

And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all the Hebrews out of Egypt and in the
process devestated the Egyptian army. The thing is, though, that the only document where this story
is found is in the Bible. The event, according to Bible experts, supposedly happened around 1500 BC,
but the jillions of archeologists that have been digging in Egypt, while they have a pretty clear
picture of all the events in Egypt from way before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no
reference made to the catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to losing over half
its population, no reference to the army's destruction. And there is no reference to the event found
in neighboring areas of the middle east, either. If the event had occurred, there would definitely
be some corroborating evidence found by the archeologists. Had Egypt's army been wiped out, the
first thing the neighboring empires would have done is sweep in and take control, taking advantage
of the situation. But, that didn't happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible
are not confirmed by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making up stories, it is
highly probable that the biblical story of the Exodus is fiction.

And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how much do you suppose the rest of it is
fiction as well? Probably most of it.

If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how vile and contemptable you may
be, you will not be going to Hell after all. But, you will have to live with yourself for the time
being, and that's probably enough punishment . . . --Tock
 
> >If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how vile
and
> >contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after all. But,
you
> >will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's probably enough punishment . . .
>
> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of proof that
> what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a religious diatribe.

Ok, let's just delete the word "probably" in the third line. Now, you will have to live with
yourself for the time being, and that's enough punishment
. . . Feel better? Exact enough for you?

> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.

Yes . . . I've noticed you have no tolerance for much of anything. If it works for you, though,
fine. Me, I cut other people lots of slack, and usually they do the same for me. Makes life pretty
good. --Tock
ps--Have a nice day . . .
 
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 22:39:00 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:

>> >If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how vile
>and
>> >contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after all. But,
>you
>> >will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's probably enough punishment . . .
>>
>> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of proof that
>> what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a religious diatribe.
>
>Ok, let's just delete the word "probably" in the third line. Now, you will have to live with
>yourself for the time being, and that's enough punishment
. .
>Feel better? Exact enough for you?

I don't care. Haven't you got that yet? What you think makes no difference.

>
>
>> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
>
>Yes . . . I've noticed you have no tolerance for much of anything. If it works for you, though,
>fine. Me, I cut other people lots of slack, and usually they do the same for me. Makes life
>pretty good.

IOW -- You are gullible enough to think that all those "other people" are telling you the truth and
foolish enough to think that they believe everything you say. I suppose there is some peace in total
ignorance...you seem to have achieved it.

--
Hell hath no cigarettes, no coffee.

>--Tock

>ps--Have a nice day . . .

How can it be when the sword of Damocles is hanging over Pandora's
Box? You said so yourself...
 
<Juan Horovitz> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote
> >
> >> >I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real Moses.
> >The
> >> >whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
> >>
> >> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction and what is not with regards to
> >> those times.
> >
> >
> >Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were more Hebrews
in
> >Egypt than there were Egyptians:
> >
> >[8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
> >[9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and
> > mightier than we:
> >
> >And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all the
Hebrews
> >out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army. The thing is, though, that the only
> >document where this story is found is in the Bible. The event, according to Bible experts,
> >supposedly happened
around
> >1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been digging in
Egypt,
> >while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in Egypt from
way
> >before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no reference made to
the
> >catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to losing over half its population, no
> >reference to the army's destruction. And there
is
> >no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the middle east, either. If the event had
> >occurred, there would definitely be some corroborating evidence found by the archeologists. Had
> >Egypt's army been wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have done is
sweep
> >in and take control, taking advantage of the situation. But, that
didn't
> >happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are not
confirmed
> >by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making up stories, it is highly probable
> >that the biblical story of the Exodus is fiction.
> >
> >And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how much do you suppose the rest of it
> >is fiction as well? Probably most of it.
> >
> >If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how vile
and
> >contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after all. But,
you
> >will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's probably enough punishment . . .
>
> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of proof that
> what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a religious diatribe.
>
> --
> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
>
> >--Tock

He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed to provide a rebuttal for. I will
provide a few more items.

No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more importantly, no Hebrew artifact has ever been
found in Goshen.

After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of Egyptian influences on
their language.

Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house slaves, to temple slaves to slaves or
the Master Builder. None have ever been found naming a single Hebrew slave from that time period
while slaves from many other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been found a plenty.

It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was contrived by Hebew elders to convince
later generations that they had been taken slave in Egypt, rather than what actually happened,
namely that they had been taken into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE, after a
rather humiliating defeat. Those that returned from captivity, came back speaking Aramaic, and this
continued to be their native toungue.

Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?
 
On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:31:02 GMT, "Light Templar"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote
>> >
>> >> >I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real Moses.
>> >The
>> >> >whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
>> >>
>> >> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction and what is not with regards to
>> >> those times.
>> >
>> >
>> >Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were more
>> >Hebrews
>in
>> >Egypt than there were Egyptians:
>> >
>> >[8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
>> >[9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and
>> > mightier than we:
>> >
>> >And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all the
>Hebrews
>> >out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army. The thing is, though, that the
>> >only document where this story is found is in the Bible. The event, according to Bible experts,
>> >supposedly happened
>around
>> >1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been digging in
>Egypt,
>> >while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in Egypt from
>way
>> >before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no reference made to
>the
>> >catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to losing over half its population, no
>> >reference to the army's destruction. And there
>is
>> >no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the middle east, either. If the event
>> >had occurred, there would definitely be some corroborating evidence found by the archeologists.
>> >Had Egypt's army been wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have done is
>sweep
>> >in and take control, taking advantage of the situation. But, that
>didn't
>> >happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are not
>confirmed
>> >by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making up stories, it is highly probable
>> >that the biblical story of the Exodus is fiction.
>> >
>> >And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how much do you suppose the rest of it
>> >is fiction as well? Probably most of it.
>> >
>> >If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how vile
>and
>> >contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after all. But,
>you
>> >will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's probably enough punishment . . .
>>
>> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of proof that
>> what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a religious diatribe.
>>
>> --
>> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
>>
>> >--Tock
>
>He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed to provide a rebuttal for. I will
>provide a few more items.
>
>
>No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more importantly, no Hebrew artifact has ever been
>found in Goshen.
>
>After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of Egyptian influences on their
>language.
>
>Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house slaves, to temple slaves to slaves
>or the Master Builder. None have ever been found naming a single Hebrew slave from that time
>period while slaves from many other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been
>found a plenty.
>
>It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was contrived by Hebew elders to
>convince later generations that they had been taken slave in Egypt, rather than what actually
>happened, namely that they had been taken into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE,
>after a rather humiliating defeat. Those that returned from captivity, came back speaking Aramaic,
>and this continued to be their native toungue.
>
>Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?

Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
 
<Juan Horovitz> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:31:02 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote
> >> >
> >> >> >I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real
Moses.
> >> >The
> >> >> >whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
> >> >>
> >> >> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction and what is not with regards to
> >> >> those times.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were more
Hebrews
> >in
> >> >Egypt than there were Egyptians:
> >> >
> >> >[8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
> >> >[9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and
> >> > mightier than we:
> >> >
> >> >And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all the
> >Hebrews
> >> >out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army. The
thing
> >> >is, though, that the only document where this story is found is in the Bible. The event,
> >> >according to Bible experts, supposedly happened
> >around
> >> >1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been digging in
> >Egypt,
> >> >while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in Egypt from
> >way
> >> >before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no reference made
to
> >the
> >> >catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to losing
over
> >> >half its population, no reference to the army's destruction. And
there
> >is
> >> >no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the middle
east,
> >> >either. If the event had occurred, there would definitely be some corroborating evidence found
> >> >by the archeologists. Had Egypt's army
been
> >> >wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have done is
> >sweep
> >> >in and take control, taking advantage of the situation. But, that
> >didn't
> >> >happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are not
> >confirmed
> >> >by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making up
stories,
> >> >it is highly probable that the biblical story of the Exodus is
fiction.
> >> >
> >> >And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how much do
you
> >> >suppose the rest of it is fiction as well? Probably most of it.
> >> >
> >> >If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how
vile
> >and
> >> >contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after all.
But,
> >you
> >> >will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's
probably
> >> >enough punishment . . .
> >>
> >> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of proof
> >> that what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a religious
> >> diatribe.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
> >>
> >> >--Tock
> >
> >He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed to
provide a
> >rebuttal for. I will provide a few more items.
> >
> >
> >No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more importantly, no
Hebrew
> >artifact has ever been found in Goshen.
> >
> >After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of Egyptian influences on their
> >language.
> >
> >Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house slaves, to temple slaves to slaves or
> >the Master Builder. None have ever been found naming a single Hebrew slave from that time period
> >while slaves from many other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been found a
> >plenty.
> >
> >It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was contrived
by
> >Hebew elders to convince later generations that they had been taken slave
in
> >Egypt, rather than what actually happened, namely that they had been
taken
> >into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE, after a rather humiliating defeat. Those
> >that returned from captivity, came back
speaking
> >Aramaic, and this continued to be their native toungue.
> >
> >Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?
>
>
> Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
>

I have given you several pieces of evidence. Do you have a reasonable rebuttal?
 
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:39:58 -0600, Juan Horovitz wrote
(in message <[email protected]>):

> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:31:02 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> <Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> <Juan Horovitz> wrote
>>>>
>>>>>> I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real Moses.
>>>> The
>>>>>> whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction and what is not with regards to
>>>>> those times.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were more
>>>> Hebrews
>> in
>>>> Egypt than there were Egyptians:
>>>>
>>>> [8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
>>>> [9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and
>>>> mightier than we:
>>>>
>>>> And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all the
>> Hebrews
>>>> out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army. The thing is, though, that the
>>>> only document where this story is found is in the Bible. The event, according to Bible experts,
>>>> supposedly happened
>> around
>>>> 1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been digging in
>> Egypt,
>>>> while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in Egypt from
>> way
>>>> before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no reference made to
>> the
>>>> catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to losing over half its population, no
>>>> reference to the army's destruction. And there
>> is
>>>> no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the middle east, either. If the event
>>>> had occurred, there would definitely be some corroborating evidence found by the archeologists.
>>>> Had Egypt's army been wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have done is
>> sweep
>>>> in and take control, taking advantage of the situation. But, that
>> didn't
>>>> happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are not
>> confirmed
>>>> by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making up stories, it is highly probable
>>>> that the biblical story of the Exodus is fiction.
>>>>
>>>> And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how much do you suppose the rest of it
>>>> is fiction as well? Probably most of it.
>>>>
>>>> If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how vile
>> and
>>>> contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after all. But,
>> you
>>>> will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's probably enough punishment . . .
>>>
>>> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of proof
>>> that what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a religious
>>> diatribe.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
>>>
>>>> --Tock
>>
>> He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed to provide a rebuttal for. I will
>> provide a few more items.
>>
>>
>> No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more importantly, no Hebrew artifact has ever
>> been found in Goshen.
>>
>> After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of Egyptian influences on their
>> language.
>>
>> Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house slaves, to temple slaves to slaves or
>> the Master Builder. None have ever been found naming a single Hebrew slave from that time period
>> while slaves from many other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been found a
>> plenty.
>>
>> It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was contrived by Hebew elders to
>> convince later generations that they had been taken slave in Egypt, rather than what actually
>> happened, namely that they had been taken into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE,
>> after a rather humiliating defeat. Those that returned from captivity, came back speaking
>> Aramaic, and this continued to be their native toungue.
>>
>> Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?
>
>
> Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
>

In other words, you have no "reasoned rebuttal".

What he presents is certainly not any proof positive; it is simply what appears to be "best guess" /
"most reasonable guess" at this time.

Faux News didn't cover that time period so we can't get a "fair and balanced" coverage. Pity . . .

Gray Shockley
--------------------------
"Swinehood hath no remedy." - Sidney Lanier
 
"Gray Shockley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:39:58 -0600, Juan Horovitz wrote (in message
> <[email protected]>):
>
> > On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:31:02 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> <Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> <Juan Horovitz> wrote
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real
Moses.
> >>>> The
> >>>>>> whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction and what is not with regards to
> >>>>> those times.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were more
Hebrews
> >> in
> >>>> Egypt than there were Egyptians:
> >>>>
> >>>> [8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
> >>>> [9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children
of
> >>>> Israel are more and mightier than we:
> >>>>
> >>>> And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all the
> >> Hebrews
> >>>> out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army. The
thing
> >>>> is, though, that the only document where this story is found is in
the
> >>>> Bible. The event, according to Bible experts, supposedly happened
> >> around
> >>>> 1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been digging in
> >> Egypt,
> >>>> while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in Egypt
from
> >> way
> >>>> before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no reference made
to
> >> the
> >>>> catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to losing
over
> >>>> half its population, no reference to the army's destruction. And
there
> >> is
> >>>> no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the middle
east,
> >>>> either. If the event had occurred, there would definitely be some corroborating evidence
> >>>> found by the archeologists. Had Egypt's army
been
> >>>> wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have done is
> >> sweep
> >>>> in and take control, taking advantage of the situation. But, that
> >> didn't
> >>>> happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are not
> >> confirmed
> >>>> by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making up
stories,
> >>>> it is highly probable that the biblical story of the Exodus is
fiction.
> >>>>
> >>>> And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how much do
you
> >>>> suppose the rest of it is fiction as well? Probably most of it.
> >>>>
> >>>> If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how
vile
> >> and
> >>>> contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after all.
But,
> >> you
> >>>> will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's
probably
> >>>> enough punishment . . .
> >>>
> >>> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of proof
> >>> that what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a religious
> >>> diatribe.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
> >>>
> >>>> --Tock
> >>
> >> He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed to
provide
> >> a rebuttal for. I will provide a few more items.
> >>
> >>
> >> No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more importantly, no Hebrew artifact has ever
> >> been found in Goshen.
> >>
> >> After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of
Egyptian
> >> influences on their language.
> >>
> >> Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house slaves, to temple slaves to slaves
> >> or the Master Builder. None have ever been
found
> >> naming a single Hebrew slave from that time period while slaves from
many
> >> other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been found a plenty.
> >>
> >> It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was
contrived by
> >> Hebew elders to convince later generations that they had been taken
slave
> >> in Egypt, rather than what actually happened, namely that they had been
taken
> >> into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE, after a rather humiliating defeat.
> >> Those that returned from captivity, came back speaking Aramaic, and this continued to be their
> >> native toungue.
> >>
> >> Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?
> >
> >
> > Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
> >
>
> In other words, you have no "reasoned rebuttal".
>
> What he presents is certainly not any proof positive; it is simply what appears to be "best guess"
> / "most reasonable guess" at this time.
>
> Faux News didn't cover that time period so we can't get a "fair and
balanced"
> coverage. Pity . . .
>

It's a bit more than "best guess". Archeologists have been hunting for evidence of the period of
slavery and have turned up zip. Egyptians were meticulous record keepers, but so far, no evidence
has turned up in the records found from that period. Even religious archeologists have turned
nothing up. 500 years of slavery should have left some sort of mark.
 
On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:07:20 GMT, "Light Templar"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:31:02 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> >> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote
>> >> >
>> >> >> >I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real
>Moses.
>> >> >The
>> >> >> >whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction and what is not with regards to
>> >> >> those times.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were more
>Hebrews
>> >in
>> >> >Egypt than there were Egyptians:
>> >> >
>> >> >[8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
>> >> >[9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and
>> >> > mightier than we:
>> >> >
>> >> >And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all the
>> >Hebrews
>> >> >out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army. The
>thing
>> >> >is, though, that the only document where this story is found is in the Bible. The event,
>> >> >according to Bible experts, supposedly happened
>> >around
>> >> >1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been digging in
>> >Egypt,
>> >> >while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in Egypt from
>> >way
>> >> >before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no reference made
>to
>> >the
>> >> >catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to losing
>over
>> >> >half its population, no reference to the army's destruction. And
>there
>> >is
>> >> >no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the middle
>east,
>> >> >either. If the event had occurred, there would definitely be some corroborating evidence
>> >> >found by the archeologists. Had Egypt's army
>been
>> >> >wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have done is
>> >sweep
>> >> >in and take control, taking advantage of the situation. But, that
>> >didn't
>> >> >happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are not
>> >confirmed
>> >> >by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making up
>stories,
>> >> >it is highly probable that the biblical story of the Exodus is
>fiction.
>> >> >
>> >> >And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how much do
>you
>> >> >suppose the rest of it is fiction as well? Probably most of it.
>> >> >
>> >> >If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how
>vile
>> >and
>> >> >contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after all.
>But,
>> >you
>> >> >will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's
>probably
>> >> >enough punishment . . .
>> >>
>> >> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of proof
>> >> that what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a religious
>> >> diatribe.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
>> >>
>> >> >--Tock
>> >
>> >He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed to
>provide a
>> >rebuttal for. I will provide a few more items.
>> >
>> >
>> >No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more importantly, no
>Hebrew
>> >artifact has ever been found in Goshen.
>> >
>> >After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of Egyptian influences on their
>> >language.
>> >
>> >Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house slaves, to temple slaves to slaves
>> >or the Master Builder. None have ever been found naming a single Hebrew slave from that time
>> >period while slaves from many other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been
>> >found a plenty.
>> >
>> >It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was contrived
>by
>> >Hebew elders to convince later generations that they had been taken slave
>in
>> >Egypt, rather than what actually happened, namely that they had been
>taken
>> >into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE, after a rather humiliating defeat. Those
>> >that returned from captivity, came back
>speaking
>> >Aramaic, and this continued to be their native toungue.
>> >
>> >Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?
>>
>>
>> Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
>>
>
>I have given you several pieces of evidence. Do you have a reasonable rebuttal?

You have quoted the opinions of other. That is not evidence it's opinion. Do you have any proof that
what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
 
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:25:19 -0600, Light Templar wrote
(in message <[email protected]>):

>
> "Gray Shockley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:39:58 -0600, Juan Horovitz wrote (in message
>> <[email protected]>):
>>
>>> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:31:02 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> <Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <Juan Horovitz> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real
> Moses.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction and what is not with regards to
>>>>>>> those times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were more
> Hebrews
>>>> in
>>>>>> Egypt than there were Egyptians:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
>>>>>> [9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children
> of
>>>>>> Israel are more and mightier than we:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all the
>>>> Hebrews
>>>>>> out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army. The
> thing
>>>>>> is, though, that the only document where this story is found is in
> the
>>>>>> Bible. The event, according to Bible experts, supposedly happened
>>>> around
>>>>>> 1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been digging in
>>>> Egypt,
>>>>>> while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in Egypt
> from
>>>> way
>>>>>> before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no reference made
> to
>>>> the
>>>>>> catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to losing
> over
>>>>>> half its population, no reference to the army's destruction. And
> there
>>>> is
>>>>>> no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the middle
> east,
>>>>>> either. If the event had occurred, there would definitely be some corroborating evidence
>>>>>> found by the archeologists. Had Egypt's army
> been
>>>>>> wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have done is
>>>> sweep
>>>>>> in and take control, taking advantage of the situation. But, that
>>>> didn't
>>>>>> happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are not
>>>> confirmed
>>>>>> by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making up
> stories,
>>>>>> it is highly probable that the biblical story of the Exodus is
> fiction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how much do
> you
>>>>>> suppose the rest of it is fiction as well? Probably most of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how
> vile
>>>> and
>>>>>> contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after all.
> But,
>>>> you
>>>>>> will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's
> probably
>>>>>> enough punishment . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of proof
>>>>> that what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a religious
>>>>> diatribe.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
>>>>>
>>>>>> --Tock
>>>>
>>>> He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed to
> provide
>>>> a rebuttal for. I will provide a few more items.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more importantly, no Hebrew artifact has ever
>>>> been found in Goshen.
>>>>
>>>> After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of
> Egyptian
>>>> influences on their language.
>>>>
>>>> Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house slaves, to temple slaves to slaves
>>>> or the Master Builder. None have ever been
> found
>>>> naming a single Hebrew slave from that time period while slaves from
> many
>>>> other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been found a plenty.
>>>>
>>>> It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was
> contrived by
>>>> Hebew elders to convince later generations that they had been taken
> slave
>>>> in Egypt, rather than what actually happened, namely that they had been
> taken
>>>> into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE, after a rather humiliating defeat.
>>>> Those that returned from captivity, came back speaking Aramaic, and this continued to be their
>>>> native toungue.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
>>>
>>
>> In other words, you have no "reasoned rebuttal".
>>
>> What he presents is certainly not any proof positive; it is simply what appears to be "best
>> guess" / "most reasonable guess" at this time.
>>
>> Faux News didn't cover that time period so we can't get a "fair and
> balanced"
>> coverage. Pity . . .
>>
>
> It's a bit more than "best guess". Archeologists have been hunting for evidence of the period of
> slavery and have turned up zip. Egyptians were meticulous record keepers, but so far, no evidence
> has turned up in the records found from that period. Even religious archeologists have turned
> nothing up. 500 years of slavery should have left some sort of mark.
>
>

"The world is not only queerer than we know; it is queerer than we can know."

- J. B.S. Haldane

I'm re-reading all four of Chuck Fort's books right now.

Today's absolute truths are tomorrow's belly laughs.

Gray Shockley
------------------------------
As the sun rises . . . .

dontchaknow
 
<Juan Horovitz> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:07:20 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:31:02 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> >> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real
> >Moses.
> >> >> >The
> >> >> >> >whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction and
what
> >> >> >> is not with regards to those times.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were more
> >Hebrews
> >> >in
> >> >> >Egypt than there were Egyptians:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >[8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not
Joseph.
> >> >> >[9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children
of
> >> >> >Israel are more and mightier than we:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all the
> >> >Hebrews
> >> >> >out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army. The
> >thing
> >> >> >is, though, that the only document where this story is found is in
the
> >> >> >Bible. The event, according to Bible experts, supposedly happened
> >> >around
> >> >> >1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been digging
in
> >> >Egypt,
> >> >> >while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in Egypt
from
> >> >way
> >> >> >before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no reference
made
> >to
> >> >the
> >> >> >catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to losing
> >over
> >> >> >half its population, no reference to the army's destruction. And
> >there
> >> >is
> >> >> >no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the middle
> >east,
> >> >> >either. If the event had occurred, there would definitely be some corroborating evidence
> >> >> >found by the archeologists. Had Egypt's
army
> >been
> >> >> >wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have done
is
> >> >sweep
> >> >> >in and take control, taking advantage of the situation. But,
that
> >> >didn't
> >> >> >happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are not
> >> >confirmed
> >> >> >by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making up
> >stories,
> >> >> >it is highly probable that the biblical story of the Exodus is
> >fiction.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how much
do
> >you
> >> >> >suppose the rest of it is fiction as well? Probably most of it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how
> >vile
> >> >and
> >> >> >contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after all.
> >But,
> >> >you
> >> >> >will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's
> >probably
> >> >> >enough punishment . . .
> >> >>
> >> >> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of proof
> >> >> that what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a religious
> >> >> diatribe.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
> >> >>
> >> >> >--Tock
> >> >
> >> >He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed to
> >provide a
> >> >rebuttal for. I will provide a few more items.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more importantly, no
> >Hebrew
> >> >artifact has ever been found in Goshen.
> >> >
> >> >After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of
Egyptian
> >> >influences on their language.
> >> >
> >> >Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house slaves,
to
> >> >temple slaves to slaves or the Master Builder. None have ever been
found
> >> >naming a single Hebrew slave from that time period while slaves from
many
> >> >other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been found a plenty.
> >> >
> >> >It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was
contrived
> >by
> >> >Hebew elders to convince later generations that they had been taken
slave
> >in
> >> >Egypt, rather than what actually happened, namely that they had been
> >taken
> >> >into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE, after a rather humiliating defeat.
> >> >Those that returned from captivity, came back
> >speaking
> >> >Aramaic, and this continued to be their native toungue.
> >> >
> >> >Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?
> >>
> >>
> >> Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
> >>
> >
> >I have given you several pieces of evidence. Do you have a reasonable rebuttal?
>
>
> You have quoted the opinions of other.

I have quoted archeological findings, and points of evidence, not opinions.

That is not evidence it's
> opinion. Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
>

Do you have a reasoned rebuttal? Do you even know what a reasoned rebuttal is?
 
<Juan Horovitz> wrote
> How can it be when the sword of Damocles is hanging over Pandora's Box? You said so yourself...

Nothin' like a mixed metaphor to start your day . . . --Tock
 
"Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > ><Juan Horovitz> wrote
> > >
> > >> >I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real Moses.
> > >The
> > >> >whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
> > >>
> > >> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction and what is not with regards to
> > >> those times.
> > >
> > >
> > >Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were more
Hebrews
> in
> > >Egypt than there were Egyptians:
> > >
> > >[8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
> > >[9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and
> > > mightier than we:
> > >
> > >And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all the
> Hebrews
> > >out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army. The
thing
> > >is, though, that the only document where this story is found is in the Bible. The event,
> > >according to Bible experts, supposedly happened
> around
> > >1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been digging in
> Egypt,
> > >while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in Egypt from
> way
> > >before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no reference made
to
> the
> > >catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to losing
over
> > >half its population, no reference to the army's destruction. And
there
> is
> > >no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the middle
east,
> > >either. If the event had occurred, there would definitely be some corroborating evidence found
> > >by the archeologists. Had Egypt's army
been
> > >wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have done is
> sweep
> > >in and take control, taking advantage of the situation. But, that
> didn't
> > >happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are not
> confirmed
> > >by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making up
stories,
> > >it is highly probable that the biblical story of the Exodus is fiction.
> > >
> > >And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how much do
you
> > >suppose the rest of it is fiction as well? Probably most of it.
> > >
> > >If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how
vile
> and
> > >contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after all.
But,
> you
> > >will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's probably enough punishment . . .
> >
> > In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of proof
> > that what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a religious
> > diatribe.
> >
> > --
> > Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
> >
> > >--Tock
>
> He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed to provide
a
> rebuttal for. I will provide a few more items.
>
>
> No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more importantly, no
Hebrew
> artifact has ever been found in Goshen.
>
> After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of Egyptian influences on their
> language.
>
> Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house slaves, to temple slaves to slaves
> or the Master Builder. None have ever been found naming a single Hebrew slave from that time
> period while slaves from many other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been
> found a plenty.
>
> It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was contrived
by
> Hebew elders to convince later generations that they had been taken slave
in
> Egypt, rather than what actually happened, namely that they had been taken into captivity to
> Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE, after a rather humiliating defeat. Those that returned from
> captivity, came back
speaking
> Aramaic, and this continued to be their native toungue.
>
> Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?

Great post, L T . . . --Tock
 
"Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote >
> It's a bit more than "best guess". Archeologists have been hunting for evidence of the period of
> slavery and have turned up zip. Egyptians were meticulous record keepers, but so far, no evidence
> has turned up in the records found from that period. Even religious archeologists have turned
> nothing up. 500 years of slavery should have left some sort of mark.

Yep. Information regarding Hebrews in Egypt at the specified time is conspicuously absent. If the
Bible is correct, there were more Hebrews in Egypt at the time in question, the Egyptian army was
decimated, and over half the country's population left, taking with it a lot of the country's weath.
You'd think that someone would have commented on that. They wrote about everything else; the
historical records are pretty complete and detailed. But, there is nary a word (or heireoglyphic)
regarding these pivotal historical events. Since the only record of this story comes from the
Hebrews themselves, I'd say the story is fiction.

But I repeat myself.

Anyone who wants to continue to enslave themselves to the fictions presented in the Bible is
certainly free to do so, but it doesn't speak very well of their intellectual facilities or of
their value for intellectual freedom. But they can pick their own nose, I ain't gonna do it for
'em. Hah. --Tock
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
>
> "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote >
> > It's a bit more than "best guess". Archeologists have been hunting for evidence of the period of
> > slavery and have turned up zip. Egyptians
were
> > meticulous record keepers, but so far, no evidence has turned up in the records found from that
> > period. Even religious archeologists have
turned
> > nothing up. 500 years of slavery should have left some sort of mark.
>
>
> Yep. Information regarding Hebrews in Egypt at the specified time is conspicuously absent. If the
> Bible is correct, there were more Hebrews in Egypt at the time in question, the Egyptian army was
> decimated, and over half the country's population left, taking with it a lot of the country's
> weath. You'd
think
> that someone would have commented on that. They wrote about everything else; the historical
> records are pretty complete and detailed. But,
there
> is nary a word (or heireoglyphic) regarding these pivotal historical
events.
> Since the only record of this story comes from the Hebrews themselves, I'd say the story is
> fiction.
>
> But I repeat myself.
>
> Anyone who wants to continue to enslave themselves to the fictions
presented
> in the Bible is certainly free to do so, but it doesn't speak very well of their intellectual
> facilities or of their value for intellectual freedom. But they can pick their own nose, I ain't
> gonna do it for 'em. Hah. --Tock
>
>

Agreed.
 
On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:04:36 GMT, "Light Templar"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:07:20 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> >> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:31:02 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> >> >> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real
>> >Moses.
>> >> >> >The
>> >> >> >> >whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction and
>what
>> >> >> >> is not with regards to those times.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were more
>> >Hebrews
>> >> >in
>> >> >> >Egypt than there were Egyptians:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >[8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not
>Joseph.
>> >> >> >[9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children
>of
>> >> >> >Israel are more and mightier than we:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all the
>> >> >Hebrews
>> >> >> >out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army. The
>> >thing
>> >> >> >is, though, that the only document where this story is found is in
>the
>> >> >> >Bible. The event, according to Bible experts, supposedly happened
>> >> >around
>> >> >> >1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been digging
>in
>> >> >Egypt,
>> >> >> >while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in Egypt
>from
>> >> >way
>> >> >> >before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no reference
>made
>> >to
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to losing
>> >over
>> >> >> >half its population, no reference to the army's destruction. And
>> >there
>> >> >is
>> >> >> >no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the middle
>> >east,
>> >> >> >either. If the event had occurred, there would definitely be some corroborating evidence
>> >> >> >found by the archeologists. Had Egypt's
>army
>> >been
>> >> >> >wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have done
>is
>> >> >sweep
>> >> >> >in and take control, taking advantage of the situation. But,
>that
>> >> >didn't
>> >> >> >happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are not
>> >> >confirmed
>> >> >> >by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making up
>> >stories,
>> >> >> >it is highly probable that the biblical story of the Exodus is
>> >fiction.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how much
>do
>> >you
>> >> >> >suppose the rest of it is fiction as well? Probably most of it.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter how
>> >vile
>> >> >and
>> >> >> >contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after all.
>> >But,
>> >> >you
>> >> >> >will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's
>> >probably
>> >> >> >enough punishment . . .
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of
>> >> >> proof that what you "suspect" is true. Not a very stable platform from which to launch a
>> >> >> religious diatribe.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >--Tock
>> >> >
>> >> >He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed to
>> >provide a
>> >> >rebuttal for. I will provide a few more items.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more importantly, no
>> >Hebrew
>> >> >artifact has ever been found in Goshen.
>> >> >
>> >> >After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of
>Egyptian
>> >> >influences on their language.
>> >> >
>> >> >Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house slaves,
>to
>> >> >temple slaves to slaves or the Master Builder. None have ever been
>found
>> >> >naming a single Hebrew slave from that time period while slaves from
>many
>> >> >other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been found a plenty.
>> >> >
>> >> >It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was
>contrived
>> >by
>> >> >Hebew elders to convince later generations that they had been taken
>slave
>> >in
>> >> >Egypt, rather than what actually happened, namely that they had been
>> >taken
>> >> >into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE, after a rather humiliating defeat.
>> >> >Those that returned from captivity, came back
>> >speaking
>> >> >Aramaic, and this continued to be their native toungue.
>> >> >
>> >> >Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
>> >>
>> >
>> >I have given you several pieces of evidence. Do you have a reasonable rebuttal?
>>
>>
>> You have quoted the opinions of other.
>
>I have quoted archeological findings, and points of evidence, not opinions.
>
>That is not evidence it's
>> opinion. Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
>>
>
>Do you have a reasoned rebuttal? Do you even know what a reasoned rebuttal is?

You have provided no evidence to support your claim. Until you do don't look for me to climb up on
your mole hill and accept your limited view of the world.
 
<Juan Horovitz> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:04:36 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:07:20 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> >> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:31:02 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> >> >> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a real
> >> >Moses.
> >> >> >> >The
> >> >> >> >> >whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction
and
> >what
> >> >> >> >> is not with regards to those times.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were
> >> >> >> >more
> >> >Hebrews
> >> >> >in
> >> >> >> >Egypt than there were Egyptians:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >[8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not
> >Joseph.
> >> >> >> >[9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the
children
> >of
> >> >> >> >Israel are more and mightier than we:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took all
the
> >> >> >Hebrews
> >> >> >> >out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army.
The
> >> >thing
> >> >> >> >is, though, that the only document where this story is found is
in
> >the
> >> >> >> >Bible. The event, according to Bible experts, supposedly
happened
> >> >> >around
> >> >> >> >1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been
digging
> >in
> >> >> >Egypt,
> >> >> >> >while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in
Egypt
> >from
> >> >> >way
> >> >> >> >before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no reference
> >made
> >> >to
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to
losing
> >> >over
> >> >> >> >half its population, no reference to the army's destruction.
And
> >> >there
> >> >> >is
> >> >> >> >no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the
middle
> >> >east,
> >> >> >> >either. If the event had occurred, there would definitely be
some
> >> >> >> >corroborating evidence found by the archeologists. Had Egypt's
> >army
> >> >been
> >> >> >> >wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have
done
> >is
> >> >> >sweep
> >> >> >> >in and take control, taking advantage of the situation. But,
> >that
> >> >> >didn't
> >> >> >> >happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are not
> >> >> >confirmed
> >> >> >> >by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making up
> >> >stories,
> >> >> >> >it is highly probable that the biblical story of the Exodus is
> >> >fiction.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how
much
> >do
> >> >you
> >> >> >> >suppose the rest of it is fiction as well? Probably most of it.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no matter
how
> >> >vile
> >> >> >and
> >> >> >> >contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after
all.
> >> >But,
> >> >> >you
> >> >> >> >will have to live with yourself for the time being, and that's
> >> >probably
> >> >> >> >enough punishment . . .
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means of providing any sort of
> >> >> >> proof that what you "suspect" is true. Not
a
> >> >> >> very stable platform from which to launch a religious diatribe.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >--Tock
> >> >> >
> >> >> >He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed to
> >> >provide a
> >> >> >rebuttal for. I will provide a few more items.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more importantly,
no
> >> >Hebrew
> >> >> >artifact has ever been found in Goshen.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of
> >Egyptian
> >> >> >influences on their language.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house
slaves,
> >to
> >> >> >temple slaves to slaves or the Master Builder. None have ever been
> >found
> >> >> >naming a single Hebrew slave from that time period while slaves
from
> >many
> >> >> >other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been found
a
> >> >> >plenty.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was
> >contrived
> >> >by
> >> >> >Hebew elders to convince later generations that they had been taken
> >slave
> >> >in
> >> >> >Egypt, rather than what actually happened, namely that they had
been
> >> >taken
> >> >> >into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE, after a
rather
> >> >> >humiliating defeat. Those that returned from captivity, came back
> >> >speaking
> >> >> >Aramaic, and this continued to be their native toungue.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >I have given you several pieces of evidence. Do you have a
reasonable
> >> >rebuttal?
> >>
> >>
> >> You have quoted the opinions of other.
> >
> >I have quoted archeological findings, and points of evidence, not
opinions.
> >
> >That is not evidence it's
> >> opinion. Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
> >>
> >
> >Do you have a reasoned rebuttal? Do you even know what a reasoned
rebuttal
> >is?
>
>
> You have provided no evidence to support your claim,

I have supplied a great deal of evidence. Your acceptance of it is not relevant. Do you have a
reasoned rebuttal or not? A yes or no answer is all that is required.
 
"Dennis Kemmerer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:eek:[email protected]...
> >
> > <Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> > Do you have a reasoned rebuttal? Do you even know what a reasoned
> rebuttal
> > is?
>
> He thinks that's something in his lesbian **** collection.
>
>

All he really needs to do is admit that he has not researched or studied the matter enough to
comment on it. That would, at least, be the truth.
 
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