L
Light Templar
Guest
<Juan Horovitz> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:11:42 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:04:36 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> >> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:07:20 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> >> >> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:31:02 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >news:[email protected]...
> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a
real
> >> >> >Moses.
> >> >> >> >> >The
> >> >> >> >> >> >whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction
> >and
> >> >what
> >> >> >> >> >> is not with regards to those times.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were
more
> >> >> >Hebrews
> >> >> >> >in
> >> >> >> >> >Egypt than there were Egyptians:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >[8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not
> >> >Joseph.
> >> >> >> >> >[9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the
> >children
> >> >of
> >> >> >> >> >Israel are more and mightier than we:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took
all
> >the
> >> >> >> >Hebrews
> >> >> >> >> >out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army.
> >The
> >> >> >thing
> >> >> >> >> >is, though, that the only document where this story is found
is
> >in
> >> >the
> >> >> >> >> >Bible. The event, according to Bible experts, supposedly
> >happened
> >> >> >> >around
> >> >> >> >> >1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been
> >digging
> >> >in
> >> >> >> >Egypt,
> >> >> >> >> >while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in
> >Egypt
> >> >from
> >> >> >> >way
> >> >> >> >> >before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no
reference
> >> >made
> >> >> >to
> >> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >> >catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to
> >losing
> >> >> >over
> >> >> >> >> >half its population, no reference to the army's destruction.
> >And
> >> >> >there
> >> >> >> >is
> >> >> >> >> >no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the
> >middle
> >> >> >east,
> >> >> >> >> >either. If the event had occurred, there would definitely
be
> >some
> >> >> >> >> >corroborating evidence found by the archeologists. Had
Egypt's
> >> >army
> >> >> >been
> >> >> >> >> >wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have
> >done
> >> >is
> >> >> >> >sweep
> >> >> >> >> >in and take control, taking advantage of the situation.
But,
> >> >that
> >> >> >> >didn't
> >> >> >> >> >happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are
not
> >> >> >> >confirmed
> >> >> >> >> >by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making
up
> >> >> >stories,
> >> >> >> >> >it is highly probable that the biblical story of the Exodus
is
> >> >> >fiction.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how
> >much
> >> >do
> >> >> >you
> >> >> >> >> >suppose the rest of it is fiction as well? Probably most of
it.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no
matter
> >how
> >> >> >vile
> >> >> >> >and
> >> >> >> >> >contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after
> >all.
> >> >> >But,
> >> >> >> >you
> >> >> >> >> >will have to live with yourself for the time being, and
that's
> >> >> >probably
> >> >> >> >> >enough punishment . . .
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means
of
> >> >> >> >> providing any sort of proof that what you "suspect" is true.
Not
> >a
> >> >> >> >> very stable platform from which to launch a religious
diatribe.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> >> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >--Tock
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed
to
> >> >> >provide a
> >> >> >> >rebuttal for. I will provide a few more items.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more
importantly,
> >no
> >> >> >Hebrew
> >> >> >> >artifact has ever been found in Goshen.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of
> >> >Egyptian
> >> >> >> >influences on their language.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house
> >slaves,
> >> >to
> >> >> >> >temple slaves to slaves or the Master Builder. None have ever
been
> >> >found
> >> >> >> >naming a single Hebrew slave from that time period while slaves
> >from
> >> >many
> >> >> >> >other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been
found
> >a
> >> >> >> >plenty.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was
> >> >contrived
> >> >> >by
> >> >> >> >Hebew elders to convince later generations that they had been
taken
> >> >slave
> >> >> >in
> >> >> >> >Egypt, rather than what actually happened, namely that they had
> >been
> >> >> >taken
> >> >> >> >into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE, after a
> >rather
> >> >> >> >humiliating defeat. Those that returned from captivity, came
back
> >> >> >speaking
> >> >> >> >Aramaic, and this continued to be their native toungue.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I have given you several pieces of evidence. Do you have a
> >reasonable
> >> >> >rebuttal?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> You have quoted the opinions of other.
> >> >
> >> >I have quoted archeological findings, and points of evidence, not
> >opinions.
> >> >
> >> >That is not evidence it's
> >> >> opinion. Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond
any
> >> >> reasonable doubt?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Do you have a reasoned rebuttal? Do you even know what a reasoned
> >rebuttal
> >> >is?
> >>
> >>
> >> You have provided no evidence to support your claim,
> >
> >
> >I have supplied a great deal of evidence. Your acceptance of it is not relevant. Do you have a
> >reasoned rebuttal or not? A yes or no answer
is
> >all that is required.
>
>
>
> Speculation is not evidence.
The answer is no. You are incapable of supplying a reasoned rebuttal. Thanks, perhaps we can debate
something you can keep up with some day.
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:11:42 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:04:36 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> >> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:07:20 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> >> >> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:31:02 GMT, "Light Templar" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >news:[email protected]...
> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:12:10 GMT, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> ><Juan Horovitz> wrote
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >I hate to break it to ya, mon ami, but there never was a
real
> >> >> >Moses.
> >> >> >> >> >The
> >> >> >> >> >> >whole story in Exodus is a work of fiction.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> I would be pleased to know how you can know what is fiction
> >and
> >> >what
> >> >> >> >> >> is not with regards to those times.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >Ok, check this out . . . First, in the 1st chapter of Exodus it says that there were
more
> >> >> >Hebrews
> >> >> >> >in
> >> >> >> >> >Egypt than there were Egyptians:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >[8] Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not
> >> >Joseph.
> >> >> >> >> >[9] And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the
> >children
> >> >of
> >> >> >> >> >Israel are more and mightier than we:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >And of course, we know that the Bible says that Moses took
all
> >the
> >> >> >> >Hebrews
> >> >> >> >> >out of Egypt and in the process devestated the Egyptian army.
> >The
> >> >> >thing
> >> >> >> >> >is, though, that the only document where this story is found
is
> >in
> >> >the
> >> >> >> >> >Bible. The event, according to Bible experts, supposedly
> >happened
> >> >> >> >around
> >> >> >> >> >1500 BC, but the jillions of archeologists that have been
> >digging
> >> >in
> >> >> >> >Egypt,
> >> >> >> >> >while they have a pretty clear picture of all the events in
> >Egypt
> >> >from
> >> >> >> >way
> >> >> >> >> >before 1500 BC to current time, there is absolutely no
reference
> >> >made
> >> >> >to
> >> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >> >catastrophic events outlined in the Bible. No reference to
> >losing
> >> >> >over
> >> >> >> >> >half its population, no reference to the army's destruction.
> >And
> >> >> >there
> >> >> >> >is
> >> >> >> >> >no reference to the event found in neighboring areas of the
> >middle
> >> >> >east,
> >> >> >> >> >either. If the event had occurred, there would definitely
be
> >some
> >> >> >> >> >corroborating evidence found by the archeologists. Had
Egypt's
> >> >army
> >> >> >been
> >> >> >> >> >wiped out, the first thing the neighboring empires would have
> >done
> >> >is
> >> >> >> >sweep
> >> >> >> >> >in and take control, taking advantage of the situation.
But,
> >> >that
> >> >> >> >didn't
> >> >> >> >> >happen. So, since the cataclysmic events outlined in the Bible are
not
> >> >> >> >confirmed
> >> >> >> >> >by evidence, and since people have a predisposition to making
up
> >> >> >stories,
> >> >> >> >> >it is highly probable that the biblical story of the Exodus
is
> >> >> >fiction.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >And if the book of Exodus is fiction (as we know it is), how
> >much
> >> >do
> >> >> >you
> >> >> >> >> >suppose the rest of it is fiction as well? Probably most of
it.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >If it's any consolation to you, though, it means that no
matter
> >how
> >> >> >vile
> >> >> >> >and
> >> >> >> >> >contemptable you may be, you will not be going to Hell after
> >all.
> >> >> >But,
> >> >> >> >you
> >> >> >> >> >will have to live with yourself for the time being, and
that's
> >> >> >probably
> >> >> >> >> >enough punishment . . .
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> In other words, you don't know for sure and you have no means
of
> >> >> >> >> providing any sort of proof that what you "suspect" is true.
Not
> >a
> >> >> >> >> very stable platform from which to launch a religious
diatribe.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> >> Truth is pure and exact. There are no tolerances.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >--Tock
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >He provided you with several items of evidence which you failed
to
> >> >> >provide a
> >> >> >> >rebuttal for. I will provide a few more items.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >No Hebrew artifact has ever been found in Egypt, more
importantly,
> >no
> >> >> >Hebrew
> >> >> >> >artifact has ever been found in Goshen.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >After 500 years of supposed captivity, there was no evidence of
> >> >Egyptian
> >> >> >> >influences on their language.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Slave records were meticulously kept. Everything from house
> >slaves,
> >> >to
> >> >> >> >temple slaves to slaves or the Master Builder. None have ever
been
> >> >found
> >> >> >> >naming a single Hebrew slave from that time period while slaves
> >from
> >> >many
> >> >> >> >other nations, and of course their domestic slaves, have been
found
> >a
> >> >> >> >plenty.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >It is believed by many historians that the story of Exodus was
> >> >contrived
> >> >> >by
> >> >> >> >Hebew elders to convince later generations that they had been
taken
> >> >slave
> >> >> >in
> >> >> >> >Egypt, rather than what actually happened, namely that they had
> >been
> >> >> >taken
> >> >> >> >into captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BCE, after a
> >rather
> >> >> >> >humiliating defeat. Those that returned from captivity, came
back
> >> >> >speaking
> >> >> >> >Aramaic, and this continued to be their native toungue.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Do you have a reasoned rebuttal?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond any reasonable doubt?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I have given you several pieces of evidence. Do you have a
> >reasonable
> >> >> >rebuttal?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> You have quoted the opinions of other.
> >> >
> >> >I have quoted archeological findings, and points of evidence, not
> >opinions.
> >> >
> >> >That is not evidence it's
> >> >> opinion. Do you have any proof that what you claim is true beyond
any
> >> >> reasonable doubt?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Do you have a reasoned rebuttal? Do you even know what a reasoned
> >rebuttal
> >> >is?
> >>
> >>
> >> You have provided no evidence to support your claim,
> >
> >
> >I have supplied a great deal of evidence. Your acceptance of it is not relevant. Do you have a
> >reasoned rebuttal or not? A yes or no answer
is
> >all that is required.
>
>
>
> Speculation is not evidence.
The answer is no. You are incapable of supplying a reasoned rebuttal. Thanks, perhaps we can debate
something you can keep up with some day.