Under or over seat steering?

[Jack Davis]

"Victor Kan" <[email protected]_UCEloopdrive.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I have heard from people that ride long distances and
> > have tried both
types
> > that they think the OSS is more comfortable for the long
> > haul than USS.
So
> > I guess it may depend somewhat on what your intended
> > use is...
>
> It would also help to know what OSS and USS systems they
> tried since they can vary in their comfort qualities
> greatly. Or did they happen to try all of the ones
> available to date?
>
> --
> I do not accept unsolicted commercial e-mail. Remove
> NO_UCE for legitimate replies.

Yes....they did....87.7 % of them preferred the OSS. (2% had
no opinion about anything at all and the other 10.3% were
very strange people.)

jd

 

[Whingin' Pom]

On 13 Mar 2004 11:49:05 GMT, Roos Eisma <[email protected]> wrote:

>Whingin' Pom <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>I'd say go USS cause chicks dig it.
>
>Yep. But you may find the chick borrowing your bike so much
>you don't get to ride it yourself anymore ;-)

This is, on the whole a Good Thing,more recumbents in the
world and all that, but not for the bank balance. Wife has
her heart set on a Challenge Mistral Deluxe USS. In purple.

--
Matt K Dunedin, NZ

 

[Peter Clinch]

paul wrote:
> Ok, so I've been and had a play, and I want one. The bike
> in question is the new machine from HPvelotecnic, the
> grasshopper. It's the business Now I started this
> search with firm views that recumbents should have USS,
> but the demo bike had above seat steering. I still think
> the USS looks better, but what are the pros and cons of
> each steering type?

Well, if there's a cheap flight to Glasgow then the Kinetics
one should be arriving about now and should be an USS.

I've currently got a Streetmachine with USS, and previously
had an Orbit Crystal with OSS, and have ridden various other
bikes with each flavour. I personally prefer USS as it suits
my usual style of riding which is generally more relaxed
than screaming! I can do rolling dismounts, don't have the
bars as part of my view and always have hands relaxed at my
sides. OTOH the OSS is better if you're in a hurry but I
think one of the great points of it is it gives you a very
easy place to mount lamps and mirrors (though HPVel probably
give you a lamp mount they're generally thinking in terms of
dynamos: if you want to use battery lamps then OSS will
probably make your life quite a bit easier, but if you
really want your life to be easier get the hub dynamo option
and it becomes a non-issue).

But ideally do try both before you decide. Both of them
work, just get the one you're happiest with. Maybe Bikefix
can be persuaded to get a conversion for it?

On the "looks better" front, Roos described tillers as
"begging chipmunk handlebars", so if you want mere words to
put you off OSS, those could be the ones! ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:48:06 GMT, Victor Kan
<[email protected]_UCEloopdrive.net> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

>It would also help to know what OSS and USS systems they
>tried since they can vary in their comfort qualities
>greatly. Or did they happen to try all of the ones
>available to date?

I have never ridden more than 100 miles in a day on my OSS
Stinger, so have never had a chance to find it
uncomfortable. Mind you, I rode centuries two successive
Sundays with 15 miles per day in between (being my commute)
so I think if comfort had been an issue I might have
noticed ;-)

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Tom Sherman]

skip wrote:

> ... I especially like the panoramic, unrestricted view USS
> offers. It gives me a sense of oneness with the bike and
> the environment. The exception would be those high bottom
> bracket USS (or OSS) bikes where your spinning feet and
> knees dominate your view....

If the crank spindle is more than about 4-inches (~10 cm)
above the seat level, the rider's knees will be above the
handlebars during part of the crank revolution with most
OSS setups.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

 

[Paul]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> I had a go on a StreetMachine the other week for an hour
> or so...wow, what a nice bike that is, felt good as soon
> as I tried it.
>
> The only thing I had a bit of trouble with to begin with
> was the USS, not the position [which I really liked] but
> the seeming 'small' steering curve. I was getting into
> trouble with the handlebars knocking against the seat
> and knew immediately I would not feel comfortable with
> this arrangement. There's always a trade-off with
> everything I guess.
>
Sounds like you need to try the Grasshopper. I tried one
yesterday, with OSS and it was an absloute blast. I asked
about tryoing the Street Machine, and the guy trying to sell
me a bike said that the GH was a lot mor of a bike than the
SM, and was about 25% into the bargin! Both bikes are the
same price, so that can't have been an incentive!

Currently working on the finacial controller and if all goes
well, will be ordering a Grass Hoper this week!
--
.paul

If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
the sport for you

 

[Mark Leuck]

"paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> >
> > I had a go on a StreetMachine the other week for an hour
> > or so...wow, what a nice bike that is, felt good as soon
> > as I tried it.
> >
> > The only thing I had a bit of trouble with to begin with
> > was the USS, not the position [which I really liked] but
> > the seeming 'small' steering curve. I was getting into
> > trouble with the handlebars knocking against the seat
> > and knew immediately I would not feel comfortable with
> > this arrangement. There's always a trade-off with
> > everything I guess.
> >
> Sounds like you need to try the Grasshopper. I tried one
> yesterday, with OSS and it was an absloute blast. I asked
> about tryoing the Street Machine, and the guy trying to
> sell me a bike said that the GH was a lot mor of a bike
> than the SM, and was about 25% into the bargin! Both bikes
> are the same price, so that can't have been an incentive!
>
> Currently working on the finacial controller and if all
> goes well, will be ordering a Grass Hoper this week!
> --
> .paul

I would have taken the Street Machine instead

 

[Kurt Fischer]

paul <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ok, so I've been and had a play, and I want one. The bike
> in question is the new machine from HPvelotecnic, the
> grasshopper. It's the business Now I started this
> search with firm views that recumbents should have USS,
> but the demo bike had above seat steering. I still think
> the USS looks better, but what are the pros and cons of
> each steering type?

First I want to confirm that OSS versus USS is mainly a
matter of personal preference. So try both configurations as
extensively as possible and decide afterwards.

I've been riding recumbents for 14 years now, starting with
USS(trike, LWB), then added a SWB(Aeroproject) to my stable,
which also came with USS. A few years later I converted it
to OSS, and loved it much better. Now I'm inclined heavily
towards OSS, here are the reasons:

- I'm feeling in better control of the bike with OSS,
especially in turns, critical situations and generally in
city traffic

- it's sometimes hard to reach the ground with the feet on a
direct steered SWB, not so much of a problem with OSS or
with linkage steering

- as already mentioned: OSS offers a good place for mirror,
computer, etc...

- if you have bad luck, it's possible you have to replace
your USS handlebar after a crash - not so likely with
OSS (to be honest: in case of a crash I'd prefer to be
on a USS bike, but then, I very seldom crash my
recumbents ;-) )

- OSS offers a significantly smaller turning radius compared
to USS on most 'bents, another reason, why I prefer it in
city traffic

- I'm feeling better with OSS when it comes to offending
reactions by people, be it laughter, mockery or what ever.
The open USS position makes me feel kind of vulnerable,
while the OSS position resembles somehow the way a boxer
faces his opponent. Of course, it's sort of psychological
attitude, but I can stand this way critical encounters
much better. ;-)

- as an aside, because I'm no racer: OSS seems to be faster,
in the first line presumably because of superior
aerodynamics, but also, because I'm able to recline the
seat further back with the handlebar above. Seems to offer
some kind of a balance for a very reclined position

We should not forget to mention there are two sorts of OSS:
the praying mantis/hamster position, where the arms are
close to the body, and the "Superman"-position with arms
stretched out. Again, that's a matter of personal liking. I
started as praying hamster, but then turned into a
superman, feeling more comfortable with my arms only
slightly bent. ;-)

Did I already mention, that the whole OSS versus USS affaire
is a matter of personal preference? ;-) Try and buy what you
like, and perhaps my experiences may show you, that this
doesn't mean in any case to stay a decision for ever. Maybe
your preferences will chance and give you the opportunity to
buy another bike. Not a bad thing, isn't it? ;-)

Regards,
Kurt

 

[Paul]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> paul wrote:
> > Ok, so I've been and had a play, and I want one. The
> > bike in question is the new machine from HPvelotecnic,
> > the grasshopper. It's the business Now I started this
> > search with firm views that recumbents should have USS,
> > but the demo bike had above seat steering. I still think
> > the USS looks better, but what are the pros and cons of
> > each steering type?
>
> Well, if there's a cheap flight to Glasgow then the
> Kinetics one should be arriving about now and should
> be an USS.
>
I wonder if I could wangle a busines trip :~)

> I've currently got a Streetmachine with USS, and
> previously had an Orbit Crystal with OSS, and have ridden
> various other bikes with each flavour. I personally prefer
> USS as it suits my usual style of riding which is
> generally more relaxed than screaming! I can do rolling
> dismounts, don't have the bars as part of my view and
> always have hands relaxed at my sides. OTOH the OSS is
> better if you're in a hurry but I think one of the great
> points of it is it gives you a very easy place to mount
> lamps and mirrors (though HPVel probably give you a lamp
> mount they're generally thinking in terms of dynamos: if
> you want to use battery lamps then OSS will probably make
> your life quite a bit easier, but if you really want your
> life to be easier get the hub dynamo option and it becomes
> a non-issue).
>
I've always been a bit of a mirror sceptic as far as cycles
went. I'd tried a helmet mounted on and stoped using it.
However, after 3 mins on the grashopper I was adjusting the
mirror for best view! I was verbalising trying the
Streetmachine after I'd tried the grasshopper, (the second
recumbent BIcycle I'd tried, the first being Bikefixes
Spiirt 5 mins earlier) and the chap helping me said don't
bother, the GH is loads better then the SM. Given that they
are the same price, I tended towards taking his word for it.
Still thing I'll have to try it before I sign. (I THINK I've
convinced SWMBO, but until I pluck up the courage to say I'm
buying one, I won't kn ow for sure. =8-O eek)
> But ideally do try both before you decide. Both of them
> work, just get the one you're happiest with. Maybe Bikefix
> can be persuaded to get a conversion for it?
>
> On the "looks better" front, Roos described tillers as
> "begging chipmunk handlebars", so if you want mere words
> to put you off OSS, those could be the ones! ;-)
>
I did wonder about the cheering and the like I got from a
bunch of (i think) japenese tourists as I rang the bell to
clear them of the cycle bit on my test ride!!!!
> Pete.
>

--
.paul

If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
the sport for you.

 

[Paul]

In article <[email protected]
online.de>, [email protected] says...
> Try and buy what you like, and perhaps my experiences may
> show you, that this doesn't mean in any case to stay a
> decision for ever. Maybe your preferences will chance and
> give you the opportunity to buy another bike. Not a bad
> thing, isn't it? ;-)
>
>
OK cards on the table time. I admit i'm a gear ****, and any
axcuse to buy more stuff is ok by me. But geting financial
concurance at home really puts the writting of a business
case at work into perspective ;o)
--
.paul

If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
the sport for you.

 

[Tom Blum]

One more thought on the OSS/ USS question:

You may think that you are going to be thorough, do your
research, and buy A bent. One for the rest of your life.

If you are anywhere close to an average bent person, that
JUST AIN'T SO. There are sooooo many varieties of bents that
you will just have to see for yourself whether this, that or
the other bent is the perfect one for you.

That does give a convertible bent an advantage for a
first bent. For not very much of a premium, you can
experience LWB, SWB, OSS and USS with one of them. I
think it's a Vision.

Just one more thing to think about.

Miles of Smiles,

Tom

 

[Jack Davis]

"paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> >
> > I had a go on a StreetMachine the other week for an hour
> > or so...wow, what a nice bike that is, felt good as soon
> > as I tried it.
> >
> > The only thing I had a bit of trouble with to begin with
> > was the USS, not the position [which I really liked] but
> > the seeming 'small' steering curve. I was getting into
> > trouble with the handlebars knocking against the seat
> > and knew immediately I would not feel comfortable with
> > this arrangement. There's always a trade-off with
> > everything I guess.
> >
> Sounds like you need to try the Grasshopper. I tried one
> yesterday, with OSS and it was an absloute blast. I asked
> about tryoing the Street Machine, and the guy trying to
> sell me a bike said that the GH was a lot mor of a bike
> than the SM, and was about 25% into the bargin! Both bikes
> are the same price, so that can't have been an incentive!
>
> Currently working on the finacial controller and if all
> goes well, will be ordering a Grass Hoper this week!
> --
> .paul

Paul,

It is sometimes difficult to tell what the true motavation
of a sales person
is. (Iwas one once....) So do not use his/her opinion as
your only source. As you may have noticed, there are
many different opinions expressed here each and every
day and none of them may suit you. Go for what you
want and make "adjustments" later. (Do not tell the
F.C. about the possibility of adjustments.)

Above all else...have some fun along the way...

jd

 

[Paul]

In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> One more thought on the OSS/ USS question:
>
> You may think that you are going to be thorough, do your
> research, and buy A bent. One for the rest of your life.
>
> If you are anywhere close to an average bent person, that
> JUST AIN'T SO. There are sooooo many varieties of bents
> that you will just have to see for yourself whether this,
> that or the other bent is the perfect one for you.
>
> That does give a convertible bent an advantage for a
> first bent. For not very much of a premium, you can
> experience LWB, SWB, OSS and USS with one of them. I
> think it's a Vision.
>
> Just one more thing to think about.
>
> Miles of Smiles,
>
> Tom
>
>
>
Do you know, that really doesn't help ;0)
--
.paul

If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
the sport for you.

 

[Paul]

In article
<[email protected]>, jd2001
@ameritech.net says...
>
> "paul" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> > >
> > > I had a go on a StreetMachine the other week for an
> > > hour or so...wow, what a nice bike that is, felt good
> > > as soon as I tried it.
> > >
> > > The only thing I had a bit of trouble with to begin
> > > with was the USS, not the position [which I really
> > > liked] but the seeming 'small' steering curve. I was
> > > getting into trouble with the handlebars knocking
> > > against the seat and knew immediately I would not feel
> > > comfortable with this arrangement. There's always a
> > > trade-off with everything I guess.
> > >
> > Sounds like you need to try the Grasshopper. I tried one
> > yesterday, with OSS and it was an absloute blast. I
> > asked about tryoing the Street Machine, and the guy
> > trying to sell me a bike said that the GH was a lot mor
> > of a bike than the SM, and was about 25% into the
> > bargin! Both bikes are the same price, so that can't
> > have been an incentive!
> >
> > Currently working on the finacial controller and if all
> > goes well, will be ordering a Grass Hoper this week!
> > --
> > .paul
>
> Paul,
>
> It is sometimes difficult to tell what the true motavation
> of a sales person
> is. (Iwas one once....) So do not use his/her opinion as
> your only source. As you may have noticed, there
> are many different opinions expressed here each and
> every day and none of them may suit you. Go for
> what you want and make "adjustments" later. (Do not
> tell the F.C. about the possibility of
> adjustments.)
>
> Above all else...have some fun along the way...
>
> jd
>
>
>
Jack, As far as salesmen go, I am the arch sceptic! I spenf
my proffesioan life trying to a) curb their excesses, and b)
trying to meet those I have failed to curb! Indeed, that is
why I came to this forum, and although there is a wildly
varied body of opinion, the one thing all agree on is that
recumbent riding is a collection of individual choices. I
value every single input on this subject, but beleive that I
am forming an opinion. The only thing that remains (on
recomendation of this forum) is to test that opinion out.

As for the F.C. I will manage the situation as expediently
as possible


Fun! Isn't that what this is all about?
--
.paul

If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
the sport for you.

 

[Paul]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> paul wrote:
>
> > ...anyone for the defence of OSS?
>
> <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
> ogle.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-
> 8859-
> 1%26safe%3Doff%26c2coff%3D1%26q%3Dfast%2Bfreddy%2Boss%2Bu-
> ss%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dalt.rec.bi-
> cycles.recumbent>.
>
>
Ok, so once i could be bothered to cut and past the link
I was impressed
--
.paul

If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
the sport for you.. My only observation is that FastFreddy
seems to be into extremes, nad shoud I ever feel like
emulating him, I'm sure I will consider what he ahs to say!
I thik it's VERY unlikely, however, thatI sould EVER feel
like travleing at 6omph on a pushbike!

 

[Jack Davis]

"paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> jd2001 @ameritech.net says...
> >
> > "paul" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > In article
> > > <[email protected]>,
> > > [email protected] says...
> > > >
> > > > I had a go on a StreetMachine the other week for an
> > > > hour or
so...wow,
> > > > what a nice bike that is, felt good as soon as I
> > > > tried it.
> > > >
> > > > The only thing I had a bit of trouble with to begin
> > > > with was the
USS,
> > > > not the position [which I really liked] but the
> > > > seeming 'small' steering curve. I was getting into
> > > > trouble with the handlebars knocking against the
> > > > seat and knew immediately I would not feel
> > > > comfortable with this arrangement. There's always a
> > > > trade-off with everything I guess.
> > > >
> > > Sounds like you need to try the Grasshopper. I tried
> > > one yesterday,
with
> > > OSS and it was an absloute blast. I asked about
> > > tryoing the Street Machine, and the guy trying to sell
> > > me a bike said that the GH was a
lot
> > > mor of a bike than the SM, and was about 25% into the
> > > bargin! Both
bikes
> > > are the same price, so that can't have been an
> > > incentive!
> > >
> > > Currently working on the finacial controller and if
> > > all goes well,
will
> > > be ordering a Grass Hoper this week!
> > > --
> > > .paul
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > It is sometimes difficult to tell what the true
> > motavation of a sales
person
> > is. (Iwas one once....) So do not use his/her opinion
> > as your only
source.
> > As you may have noticed, there are many different
> > opinions expressed
here
> > each and every day and none of them may suit you. Go for
> > what you want
and
> > make "adjustments" later. (Do not tell the F.C. about
> > the possibility
of
> > adjustments.)
> >
> > Above all else...have some fun along the way...
> >
> > jd
> >
> >
> >
> Jack, As far as salesmen go, I am the arch sceptic! I
> spenf my proffesioan life trying to a) curb their
> excesses, and b) trying to meet those I have failed to
> curb! Indeed, that is why I came to this forum, and
> although there is a wildly varied body of opinion, the one
> thing all agree on is that recumbent riding is a
> collection of individual choices. I value every single
> input on this subject, but beleive that I am forming an
> opinion. The only thing that remains (on recomendation of
> this forum) is to test that opinion out.
>
> As for the F.C. I will manage the situation as expediently
> as possible
>
>
> Fun! Isn't that what this is all about?
> --
> .paul
>
> If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
> the sport for you.

Paul,

PS....Your statement,

"If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
the sport for you."

just cracked me up and since my son is crazy enough to jump
from perfectly good airplanes I sent a copy to him....We
then started to think of other sport/hobby/occupations that
may also apply. I wonder how many our fellow contributors
can come up with? I'm guessing many...

Jack

 

[Paul]

In article
<[email protected]>, jd2001
@ameritech.net says...
>
> just cracked me up and since my son is crazy enough to
> jump from perfectly good airplanes I sent a copy to
> him....We then started to think of other
> sport/hobby/occupations that may also apply. I wonder how
> many our fellow contributors can come up with? I'm
> guessing many...
>
> Jack
>
Ah, but as any skydiver will tell you, by getting out at the
top, you are avoiding the most dangerous bit of flying,
namely the landing
--
.paul

If at first you don't succeed... Skydiving is probably not
the sport for you.

 

[Dave Lehnen]

paul wrote:

>
> Ah, but as any skydiver will tell you, by getting out at
> the top, you are avoiding the most dangerous bit of
> flying, namely the landing

But you're not avoiding the part where they put too many
skydivers too far back in a small plane, putting the center
of gravity too far back, and stall/spin into the ground not
long after takeoff. This seems to happen more than it should
with skydive operators. Usually landing is the most
dangerous part, but with all the skydivers gone, the plane
is light and has a good safe forward center of gravity.

Dave Lehnen

 

[Tom Sherman]

paul wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
>>paul wrote:
>>
>>
>>>...anyone for the defence of OSS?
>>
>><http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
>>ogle.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-
>>8859-
>>1%26safe%3Doff%26c2coff%3D1%26q%3Dfast%2Bfreddy%2Boss%2Bu-
>>ss%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dalt.rec.bi-
>>cycles.recumbent>.
>>
>>
>
> Ok, so once i could be bothered to cut and past the link
> I was impressed

I just "right click" on the like and select "Open in new
window".

This is why it is important to include the "http://" at the
beginning of URL's when including them in Usenet posts;
otherwise cutting and pasting is required.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

 

[Donn Cave]

While riding today it occurred to me that with a linkage
USS, if turning radius is limited by the bars running into
the seat, you should be able to compensate with more
oversteer. Move the linkage farther from the bar center, and
the bars will push the wheel farther with less range of
motion. Could get a little "twitchy", though.

Donn