Underwear under tights?

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:10:25 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]>
wrote in message <[email protected]>:

>Just to clarify. When you wear bike shorts with real chamois, you usually
>apply a substance called 'chamois cream' to this material, and then you put
>on the bike shorts.

For differing values of "usually". I have never used chamois cream,
but I have never ridden more than a hundred miles in a day. On long
tours, very long rides, multi-day events or with racing saddles I am
told it makes great sense, but it is certainly not essential for
everyday or short-distance riding.

I recommend bibshorts, with straps over the shoulders, as these reduce
your movement with respect to the chamois (synthetic or not). And
they don't slip down and let your back get cold.

>If you're not riding long distances, a 'fake chamois' bike short may be of
>use to you in a similar way, but minus the advanced saddle-sore protection.

Frankly I think the fake chamois is probably at least as good as the
real thing, but it would strongly depend on which one you buy. Cheap
fake chamois is less likely to be good, obviously. All the high-end
shorts at my LBS have moulded synthetic pads impregnated with
antibacterial agents.

>In that case of only wearing shorts with 'fake chamois', it probably
>doesn't matter if you're wearing underwear or not.

Disagree strongly. Padded shorts never, in my experience, work well
with underwear. Or rather, there is no underwear which works
particularly well for cycling, and given that you have shorts which
can (and are designed to) be worn without, I would leave the underwear
out.

This may depend on the cheapness and thinness of the padding, but I am
not even sure of that. I only have one cheap pair of shorts and they
have been at the bottom of the drawer for a long time.

When wearing unpadded tights I wear padded shorts underneath, but
there are padded cycling underpants which would be equally good (these
allegedly work well with Rohan shorts for Summer wear, as well).

These days I almost always ride an Inherently Comfortable Bike instead
and don't worry

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Badger_South]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:18:11 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>>In that case of only wearing shorts with 'fake chamois', it probably
>>doesn't matter if you're wearing underwear or not.
>
>Disagree strongly. Padded shorts never, in my experience, work well
>with underwear. Or rather, there is no underwear which works
>particularly well for cycling, and given that you have shorts which
>can (and are designed to) be worn without, I would leave the underwear
>out.

I agree with your disagreeing, now that I've had a couple replies. It's
good, though, to hear from actual experience. Thanks. Sorry to have brought
this up again so soon after the last thread on the same topic.

Part of my reply was to delineate between short rides (10-25 miles), where
what you wear seems to make little difference (to some people), and longer
rides (>25-50) where it probably does make a difference. Indistinct
comments such as mine are probably so un-helpful as to be better unsaid,
even if one is trying to 'help' not turn off a newbie with the complexities
of the sport. My bad. ;->

Hah, I say this riding with another cyclist who wears cotton underwear, and
cut off sweat pants and a T-shirt to do training rides of 20-30 miles. I
can -not- get him to even consider switching to a non-cotton T, and when he
gets back, his seat, shirt and shorts are wet and dripping, and I am dry
and comfortable. Oh well, it is to laugh.

Thanks for the input. ;-)

-B

 

[pam_in_sc]

the black rose wrote:

> I'd love to know if any women use chamois cream, and what their
> experience of it is (they can email me directly rather than discuss it
> on the NG if they prefer -- email addy works as is). I shudder at the
> idea of the stuff.
>
> -km

I find using cream makes a mild but worthwhile difference in comfort if
I am riding more than about 30 miles. I was too embarrassed to buy it
at the bike shop so went looking in the closet for some leftover Desitin
from when my kids were small. Instead I found some diaper rash ointment
called Flanders Buttocks Ointment (my youngest is 11--it has been in the
closet a long time). It is quite amazing in its ability to stay in
place--I put a thin layer on my skin over my sit bones and I definitely
can still feel it there when my ride is done (I would be dubious whether
vaseline or Bag Balm would stay on so well). Sometimes I cover a
somewhat larger area depending on where I might have felt some friction
the day before, but you might shudder at the idea less if you think in
terms of putting it on the skin over your sit bones, rather than putting
it on the chamois or on other areas.

Pam

 

[Badger_South]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:02:02 -0400, pam_in_sc <[email protected]>
wrote:

>the black rose wrote:
>
>> I'd love to know if any women use chamois cream, and what their
>> experience of it is (they can email me directly rather than discuss it
>> on the NG if they prefer -- email addy works as is). I shudder at the
>> idea of the stuff.
>>
>> -km
>
>I find using cream makes a mild but worthwhile difference in comfort if
>I am riding more than about 30 miles. I was too embarrassed to buy it
>at the bike shop so went looking in the closet for some leftover Desitin
>from when my kids were small. Instead I found some diaper rash ointment
>called Flanders Buttocks Ointment (my youngest is 11--it has been in the
>closet a long time). It is quite amazing in its ability to stay in
>place--I put a thin layer on my skin over my sit bones and I definitely
>can still feel it there when my ride is done (I would be dubious whether
>vaseline or Bag Balm would stay on so well). Sometimes I cover a
>somewhat larger area depending on where I might have felt some friction
>the day before, but you might shudder at the idea less if you think in
>terms of putting it on the skin over your sit bones, rather than putting
>it on the chamois or on other areas.
>
>Pam

And, lo, it's the distaff side that provides some of the best tips ever on
this subject!

-B
FBO, takin' notes.

 

[the black rose]

pam_in_sc wrote:
> you might shudder at the idea less if you think in
> terms of putting it on the skin over your sit bones, rather than putting
> it on the chamois or on other areas.

Hmm, okay, that does help me shudder a little less. I just
keep getting images of having the Yeast Infection From Hell
if I slather the chamois with it. *shudder*

So far, I haven't had any problem with friction or chafing
or what-have-you, but I haven't ridden more than 35 miles.

-km

--
Only cowards fight kids -- unidentified Moscow protester

http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
proud to be owned by a yorkie

 

[the black rose]

Badger_South wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:02:02 -0400, pam_in_sc <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>the black rose wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'd love to know if any women use chamois cream, and what their
>>>experience of it is (they can email me directly rather than discuss it
>>>on the NG if they prefer -- email addy works as is). I shudder at the
>>>idea of the stuff.
>>>
>>>-km
>>
>>I find using cream makes a mild but worthwhile difference in comfort if
>>I am riding more than about 30 miles. I was too embarrassed to buy it
>>at the bike shop so went looking in the closet for some leftover Desitin
>
>>from when my kids were small. Instead I found some diaper rash ointment
>
>>called Flanders Buttocks Ointment (my youngest is 11--it has been in the
>>closet a long time). It is quite amazing in its ability to stay in
>>place--I put a thin layer on my skin over my sit bones and I definitely
>>can still feel it there when my ride is done (I would be dubious whether
>>vaseline or Bag Balm would stay on so well). Sometimes I cover a
>>somewhat larger area depending on where I might have felt some friction
>>the day before, but you might shudder at the idea less if you think in
>>terms of putting it on the skin over your sit bones, rather than putting
>>it on the chamois or on other areas.
>>
>>Pam
>
>
> And, lo, it's the distaff side that provides some of the best tips ever on
> this subject!
>
> -B
> FBO, takin' notes.

Here's a note for ya:

http://www.badgerbalm.com/

I've been waiting for an excuse to use that link on Badger.
O

-km

--
Only cowards fight kids -- unidentified Moscow protester

http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
proud to be owned by a yorkie

 

[Badger_South]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:25:09 GMT, the black rose
<[email protected]> wrote:

>pam_in_sc wrote:
>> you might shudder at the idea less if you think in
>> terms of putting it on the skin over your sit bones, rather than putting
>> it on the chamois or on other areas.
>
>Hmm, okay, that does help me shudder a little less. I just
>keep getting images of having the Yeast Infection From Hell
>if I slather the chamois with it. *shudder*
>
>So far, I haven't had any problem with friction or chafing
>or what-have-you, but I haven't ridden more than 35 miles.
>
>-km

Apologies if my less-than-correct take on this mislead anyone. I did think
we got some great clarifications and corrections.

Best,
-B

 

[David Reuteler]

Chris C <[email protected]> wrote:
> I bought some tights w/out padding . Is underwear usually worn underneath (I
> know not to wear cotton) these? What about if they have padding? Where can I
> get a good deal on underwear? Thanks

for my commute i wear underwear under 'em. it's mostly a matter of not
having enuf bike shorts for a week's worth of commutes (and not wanting to do
laundry all the time) so i usually wear cut off shorts and during the winter
tights over my underwear (leg warmers fall down w/o bike shorts to hold them
up) and i only need to wash the tights once a week if i'm wearing them over
underwear.

but only if they have no padding .. if they have padding then no. i don't
see the advantage of tights with a chamois. leg warmers work just as well
with normal shorts and you can remove 'em.
--
david reuteler
[email protected]

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:10:25 -0400, Badger_South wrote:

> Just to clarify. When you wear bike shorts with real chamois, you usually
> apply a substance called 'chamois cream' to this material, and then you
> put on the bike shorts.

Several points. Lots of people use "real" chamois without that glop, and
it works fine. I never used it -- but then I gave up on "real" chamois
years and years ago. There are few recreational and/or transportational
riders who put the number of miles in that a stage racer would; for most
of us saddle sores are not often a problem. If you do get one, then maybe
the goop will help, but other than that, not for me.

You can still find leather chamois, but IMO there is no advantage. Most
of the synthetic ones are not only much more comfortable than the real
ones, they last several times longer. Most now come without seams which
makes a big difference in both durability and comfort. It's like wool
shorts and jerseys; there is a lot of nostalgia for them, but really the
modern materials are far better. I can live a long time without wearing
another wool jersey on a hot summer day. The only thing I miss about the
old jerseys are the front pockets. How come new ones don't have 'em?

> If you're not riding long distances, a 'fake chamois' bike short may be
> of use to you in a similar way, but minus the advanced saddle-sore
> protection. Many recreational riders wear 'fake chamois' and don't even
> realize that Lance slathers his tushie with gobs of this "stuff" like
> cold cream, and then puts on the bike shorts - every morning.

Like I said, unless you ride that much, there is no point to that.
Synthetic pads are great. I don't know what you mean by not riding "long
distances", but I've done 130 mile days with a "fake" chamois and not
had any problem.

> In that case of only wearing shorts with 'fake chamois', it probably
> doesn't matter if you're wearing underwear or not.

Not true at all. Underwear has seams at all the wrong places. Most
jockey shorts have a double seam that hits right at your sit bones. Real
problem for any ride over 20 miles.

> That pad is just for
> padding and performs little if any of the original friction reducing
> function.

As long as it doesn't move w/r to your butt, it's doing all that can be
done.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You
_`\(,_ | soon find out the pig likes it!
(_)/ (_) |

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:55:00 -0400, Badger_South wrote:

> Hmm, so you're saying you use chamois cream on the imitation chamois? Now
> there are some shorts where the padding doesn't even look like chamois,
> it's white and has gel in it.

Gel pads are a dumb idea. I tried one and refused to wear it again.


--

David L. Johnson

__o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but
_`\(,_ | what canst thou say? -- George Fox.
(_)/ (_) |

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:53:16 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]>
wrote in message <[email protected]>:

>Part of my reply was to delineate between short rides (10-25 miles), where
>what you wear seems to make little difference (to some people), and longer
>rides (>25-50) where it probably does make a difference.

Here too your mileage may vary 25 miles on a Sunday and little or
no riding in between is almost certainly a non-issue. I know Sunday
cyclists who ride in jeans and are happy, not that I would ever wear
denim for any outdoor activity due to its ability to become a sodden,
chafing mass in anything less than desert-dry conditions

If you ride 25 miles every day (as I do some weeks) then you will need
clean shorts every day, and to take good care of washing, to avoid
sweat rash and saddle sores. And boils on the nether regions, which
are (literally) a pain in the ****.

Or: say goodbye to sore **** misery with New! Improved! Recumbent!

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Hunrobe]

>the black rose [email protected]

wrote:

>So far, I haven't had any problem with friction or chafing
>or what-have-you, but I haven't ridden more than 35 miles.

You will though and it's worth mentioning that creams and balms aren't the only
products available to combat friction. I often use BodyGlide, a non-petroleum
based waxlike product that looks and is applied just like a solid underarm
antiperspirant. It's not quite as effective as some creams are on long rides
but it is much less messy, i.e., no "slathering" required.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

P.S.- My LBS orders it for me and I think it's also available through
Performance. A few cautions about its use though. First, it is not medicated in
any way so if I already had broken skin from chafing I wouldn't use it.
Second, it's packaging really does look identical to many solid underarm
antiperspirants. Before I moved it off the top of the bath vanity I had a few
sleepy mornings that resulted in waxy armpits. <g>

 

[Hunrobe]

>"David L. Johnson" [email protected]

wrote:

>Gel pads are a dumb idea. I tried one and refused to wear it again.

I agree 100%. Gel pads are one of those ideas like Barcalounger sized saddles
that appeal to the less experienced and the poorly informed. A few years ago a
woman I work with was one of my team's new riders in a metric century charity
event I do every year. She showed up for the event in brand new gel pad shorts
with a brand new gel pad saddle. I have to give her credit. She is a very
determined person. She trashed the shorts that same day though. I still haven't
convinced her to trash the gel pad saddle though.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

 

[Joshua Putnam]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

> And having used both traditional chamois and what you call "fake," I'll take
> the "fake" stuff any day. After a few washings the genuine chamois would dry
> out, become stiff, and crack. The imitation chamois is more comfortable and
> lasts much longer. It is far superior, just as modern jersey fabrics are
> superior to wool.

I didn't mind real chamois, though it did require more maintenance than
synthetics. But I'm perfectly happy with a good synthetic chamois on
rides of any length, and they dry faster when you line-dry your shorts
while touring. (Nothing like starting a 150-mile day with wet shorts...)

--
[email protected] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html>

 

[Jeff Starr]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:03:36 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:55:00 -0400, Badger_South wrote:
>
>> Hmm, so you're saying you use chamois cream on the imitation chamois? Now
>> there are some shorts where the padding doesn't even look like chamois,
>> it's white and has gel in it.
>
>Gel pads are a dumb idea. I tried one and refused to wear it again.

Maybe because of my artificial leg, I am not your average rider, but
for me, the Performance Century Gel shorts are the best for me on a
distance over about 25 miles.
I have shorts from Voler, PI Ultrasensors, Performance, Elites, Per
Ultras, and various basic "cool max" chamois. So I have tried a
variety of pads.
The only downside, I have found, is the thickness, places you higher
on the saddle.

On the other topic, I get some abrasion, under my leg and have tried a
few different products. The absolute best is Sixtufit Olympia
Gesasscreme. Bodyglide also works reasonably well.

It seems to me, when it comes to shorts, gloves, and saddles, there
are no absolutes. Performance has an excellent return policy, so
anyone who is intriqued by the various shorts, can try them, with
little to lose.


Life is Good!
Jeff

 

[Beverly]

"the black rose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Badger_South wrote:
> > When you wear bike shorts with real chamois, you usually
> > apply a substance called 'chamois cream' to this material, and then you
put
> > on the bike shorts.
>
> I'd love to know if any women use chamois cream, and what
> their experience of it is (they can email me directly rather
> than discuss it on the NG if they prefer -- email addy works
> as is). I shudder at the idea of the stuff.
>
> -km
>
If I'm doing rides over 20 miles I'll use A&D ointment. I've never tried
anything else as this seems to work fine for me.

Beverly

 

[Claire Petersky]

"the black rose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> pam_in_sc wrote:
> > you might shudder at the idea less if you think in
> > terms of putting it on the skin over your sit bones, rather than putting
> > it on the chamois or on other areas.
>
> Hmm, okay, that does help me shudder a little less. I just
> keep getting images of having the Yeast Infection From Hell
> if I slather the chamois with it. *shudder*

Really, if you think about it, there's no motion, and therefore no chafing,
in the locations where you'd be inciting the yeast infection from hell.
Where I slather is where the inside of the thigh rubs against the side of
the saddle. If you don't get rubbing there, then don't bother with the
slathering.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

 

[Claire Petersky]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> And boils on the nether regions,

I thought I was the only person who used the expression, "nether regions" --
or maybe you learned it from me?


Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

 

[Claire Petersky]

"Jeff Starr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:03:36 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:55:00 -0400, Badger_South wrote:
> >
> >> Hmm, so you're saying you use chamois cream on the imitation chamois?
Now
> >> there are some shorts where the padding doesn't even look like chamois,
> >> it's white and has gel in it.
> >
> >Gel pads are a dumb idea. I tried one and refused to wear it again.
>
> Maybe because of my artificial leg, I am not your average rider, but
> for me, the Performance Century Gel shorts are the best for me on a
> distance over about 25 miles.

Want my pair? I bought them on clearance, just to give them a whirl, and I
thought they were awful. They feel like you are wearing a pair of soggy
diapers. But if they're your preference, I'll send you mine -- just email me
your address.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

 

[Claire Petersky]

"Joshua Putnam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> (Nothing like starting a 150-mile day with wet shorts...)

Talk about an invitation for the yeast infection from hell!


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky