unreal



On 01 May 2006 15:41:09 GMT, [email protected]
wrote:

>Carl Fogel writes:
>
>> Dear N.G.,

>
>> We at Well-Written Purists, Inc., are appalled by the hideous and
>> unnecessary space betwixt a person's initials, but will not stoop to
>> insisting on the comma demanded by common decency before Inc., much
>> less the period that signifies that viz. is the modern abbreviation
>> for the Latin videlicit.

>
>> John Dacey would inform us that the ancient Greek and Latin authors
>> scorned punctuation.

>
>> Two further remarks of interest will follow this lengthy excerpt
>> from The Devil's Dictionary:

>
>> FLY-SPECK, n. The prototype of punctuation. It is observed
>> by Garvinus that the systems of punctuation in use by the
>> various literary nations depended originally upon the social
>> habits and general diet of the flies infesting the several
>> countries. These creatures, which have always been
>> distinguished for a neighborly and companionable familiarity
>> with authors, liberally or ****ardly embellish the
>> manuscripts in process of growth under the pen, according to
>> their bodily habit, bringing out the sense of the work by
>> a species of interpretation superior to, and independent of,
>> the writer's powers. The "old masters" of literature --
>> that is to say, the early writers whose work is so esteemed
>> by later scribes and critics in the same language -- never
>> punctuated at all, but worked right along free-handed,
>> without that abruption of the thought which comes from the
>> use of points. (We observe the same thing in children
>> to-day, whose usage in this particular is a striking and
>> beautiful instance of the law that the infancy of
>> individuals reproduces the methods and stages of development
>> characterizing the infancy of races.) In the work of these
>> primitive scribes all the punctuation is found, by the
>> modern investigator with his optical instruments and
>> chemical tests, to have been inserted by the writers'
>> ingenious and serviceable collaborator, the common house-fly
>> -- _Musca maledicta_. In transcribing these ancient MSS,
>> for the purpose of either making the work their own or
>> preserving what they naturally regard as divine revelations,
>> later writers reverently and accurately copy whatever marks
>> they find upon the papyrus or parchment, to the unspeakable
>> enhancement of the lucidity of the thought and value of the
>> work. Writers contemporary with the copyists naturally
>> avail themselves of the obvious advantages of these marks in
>> their own work, and with such assistance as the flies of
>> their own household may be willing to grant, frequently
>> rival and sometimes surpass the older compositions, in
>> respect at least of punctuation, which is no small glory.
>> Fully to understand the important services that flies
>> perform to literature it is only necessary to lay a page of
>> some popular novelist alongside a saucer of
>> cream-and-molasses in a sunny room and observe "how the wit
>> brightens and the style refines" in accurate proportion to
>> the duration of exposure.

>
>> --Ambrose Bierce

>
>> First, note the antique beauty of the double-spaces after the
>> periods in the passage scanned above, a typist's habit long since
>> abandoned in the efficient computer age, but sometimes retained in
>> the early writings on RBT of Jobst Brandt.

>
>> Second, note that Bierce, a writer noted for his elegant style and
>> careful diction, has happily penned a lengthy exegesis that likens
>> punctuation to fly ****.

>
>> C.F.

>
>Hard to imagine such a text being written without paragraph breaks. I
>am told this is "modern" but I doubt it. How did this piece become
>one solid "thought" so to speak. When I encounter such writing, my
>first impression is that I can't hold my breath long enough survive
>with an idea that must be contained therein.
>
>http://www2.actden.com/Writ_Den/tips/paragrap/index.htm
>
>Jobst Brandt


Dear Jobst,

Your paranoia is showing again.

No need to imagine or doubt.

That's how Bierce wrote the passage.

(Forgive my frequent paragraphing and short sentences.)

(I gather that it may be necessary.)

It's just like his other definitions in "The Devil's
Dictionary," which had no paragraph breaks.

You may confirm this amazing feat by examining the text:

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/dvldc10.txt

Or visit a library, flip open a copy of "The Devil's
Dictionary," and search for "fly-speck."

Bierce's definitions began in newspaper columns in 1881 and
were eventually collected after 1906.

(That era is considered reasonably modern.)

(My grandfather read some of them, hot off the presses.)

Bierce's definitions were published in Hearst newspapers not
far from your home.

Readers of that long-ago time were able and happy to follow
Bierce's elaborately phrased satire and invective.

In that more literatre age, Bierce was able to quote from
what were then well-known poems and authors without
footnotes, explanations, or the gift of Google.

For example, his readers were expected to know that the
quotation "how the wit brightens and the style refines" is
from Alexander Pope's famous poem "Essay on Criticism":

What woful stuff this Madrigal wou'd be,
To some starv'd Hackny Sonneteer, or me?
But let a Lord once own the happy Lines,
How the Wit brightens! How the Style refines!
Before his sacred Name flies ev'ry Fault,
And each exalted Stanza teems with Thought!

How much was expected from the readers of the Nevada and
California newspapers was wonderfully explained by Twain:

"Once, while editor of the Union, he had disposed of a
labored, incoherent, two-column attack made upon him by a
contemporary, with a single line, which, at first glance,
seemed to contain a solemn and tremendous compliment--viz.:
'THE LOGIC OF OUR ADVERSARY RESEMBLES THE PEACE OF
GOD,'--and left it to the reader's memory and after-thought
to invest the remark with another and 'more different'
meaning by supplying for himself and at his own leisure the
rest of the Scripture--'in that it passeth understanding.'"

--"Roughing It, Chapter LI

(Note in passing the proper punctuation of "viz." by the
unlettered Twain, who, like Bierce, had scarcely any formal
education.)

In 1871, Bierce offered the following comment, which might
be apropos to your anguished complaint concerning the lack
of paragraph breaks.

"A list of two hundred books which it is proposed to
purchase for the library of the Lincoln School has been
referred to a committee of the Board of Education, with
power to reject any objectionable volumes. As it is not
probable that the members of the committee are familiar with
a half-dozen volumes comprised in this list or any other, it
may be reasonably affirmed that a conscientous performance
of their duty will require the first intellectual labor they
have ever done in all their lives. It is to be hoped the
works are printed in large, clear type, with the syllables
properly estranged."

--"The Ambrose Bierce Satanic Reader," editor Ernest Jerome
Hopkins, p. 103

Thanks for the opportunity to use Bierce's cruel comment
concerning the properly estranged syllables.

In the event that Bierce's meaning is mysterious to my
modern readers, the elegant phrase refers to the careful
sep-ar-a-tion of long words into their individual parts for
the easier comprehension of children.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 18:26:44 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

>Dear N.G.,
>
>We at Well-Written Purists, Inc., are appalled by the
>hideous and unnecessary space betwixt a person's initials,
>but will not stoop to insisting on the comma demanded by
>common decency before Inc., much less the period that
>signifies that viz. is the modern abbreviation for the Latin
>videlicit.
>
>John Dacey would inform us that the ancient Greek and Latin
>authors scorned punctuation.


Well, he might have, had he but known it. Perhaps this lack of
punctuation you cite is what seemed to confer greater measures of
prestige upon the best orators of this era than to its authors.

This being RBT and all, perhaps you could offer some proofs about this
paucity of punctuation. It has never occurred to me that the warhorses
of classic Latin wanted for more commas. Vide:

"GALLIA est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae,
aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli
appellantur. Hi omnes lingua, institutis, legibus inter se
differunt."
(More of Caesar's "De Bello Gallico" at
http://digilander.libero.it/jackdanielspl/Cesare/gallico/liber_1.htm)

Alternately, from Cicero:

"Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra? quam diu etiam
furor iste tuus nos eludet? quem ad finem sese effrenata iactabit
audacia? Nihilne te nocturnum praesidium Palati, nihil urbis vigiliae,
nihil timor populi, nihil concursus bonorum omnium, nihil hic
munitissimus habendi senatus locus, nihil horum ora voltusque
moverunt?"
(Toxic levels of orations against Cataline can be found at
http://cicero.missouristate.edu/~cicero/orationes/in_catilinam1.htm).

-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
Since 1983
Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996
305-273-4440
http://www.businesscycles.com
-------------------------------
 
On Mon, 01 May 2006 23:47:43 -0400, John Dacey
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 18:26:44 -0600, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>Dear N.G.,
>>
>>We at Well-Written Purists, Inc., are appalled by the
>>hideous and unnecessary space betwixt a person's initials,
>>but will not stoop to insisting on the comma demanded by
>>common decency before Inc., much less the period that
>>signifies that viz. is the modern abbreviation for the Latin
>>videlicit.
>>
>>John Dacey would inform us that the ancient Greek and Latin
>>authors scorned punctuation.

>
>Well, he might have, had he but known it. Perhaps this lack of
>punctuation you cite is what seemed to confer greater measures of
>prestige upon the best orators of this era than to its authors.
>
>This being RBT and all, perhaps you could offer some proofs about this
>paucity of punctuation. It has never occurred to me that the warhorses
>of classic Latin wanted for more commas. Vide:
>
>"GALLIA est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae,
>aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli
>appellantur. Hi omnes lingua, institutis, legibus inter se
>differunt."
>(More of Caesar's "De Bello Gallico" at
>http://digilander.libero.it/jackdanielspl/Cesare/gallico/liber_1.htm)
>
>Alternately, from Cicero:
>
>"Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra? quam diu etiam
>furor iste tuus nos eludet? quem ad finem sese effrenata iactabit
>audacia? Nihilne te nocturnum praesidium Palati, nihil urbis vigiliae,
>nihil timor populi, nihil concursus bonorum omnium, nihil hic
>munitissimus habendi senatus locus, nihil horum ora voltusque
>moverunt?"
>(Toxic levels of orations against Cataline can be found at
>http://cicero.missouristate.edu/~cicero/orationes/in_catilinam1.htm).
>
>-------------------------------
>John Dacey
>Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
>Since 1983
>Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996
>305-273-4440
>http://www.businesscycles.com
>-------------------------------


Dear John,

I may be wrong, but . . .

I suspect that you have been misled by modern editors, who
silently include our familiar punctuation and capitalization
in classical texts.

As far as I know, the Romans used no comma, quotation mark,
question mark, exclamation mark, or period as we know it:

http://omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/mailing_lists/LATIN-L/2003/01/0036.php

As the brief page above explains, the Romans used a dot
somewhat like a period, but used it just about everywhere
except at the end of a sentence.

That is, the texts that you're citing seem to be edited for
modern eyes in the same fashion that Shakespeare is
improved. For example, here's how we moderns see "Hamlet":

SCENE I. Elsinore. A platform before the castle.
FRANCISCO at his post. Enter to him BERNARDO
BERNARDO Who's there?
FRANCISCO Nay, answer me: stand, and unfold yourself.
BERNARDO Long live the king!
.. . . and so on.

Here's how it actually appears in the First Folio:

http://dewey.library.upenn.edu/sceti/printedbooksNew/index.cfm?TextID=firstfolio&PagePosition=759

Kick the magnification up to 8x and scroll around--you'll
soon see how much silent editing is going on in most
Shakespearean texts.

As I understand it, the same sort of thing is routinely done
to Caesar's works.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
On Mon, 01 May 2006 22:45:21 -0600, [email protected] wrote:


>I may be wrong, but . . .
>
>I suspect that you have been misled by modern editors, who
>silently include our familiar punctuation and capitalization
>in classical texts.

<snip>
>That is, the texts that you're citing seem to be edited for
>modern eyes in the same fashion that Shakespeare is
>improved. For example, here's how we moderns see "Hamlet":
>
>SCENE I. Elsinore. A platform before the castle.
>FRANCISCO at his post. Enter to him BERNARDO
>BERNARDO Who's there?
>FRANCISCO Nay, answer me: stand, and unfold yourself.
>BERNARDO Long live the king!
>. . . and so on.
>
>Here's how it actually appears in the First Folio:
>
>http://dewey.library.upenn.edu/sceti/printedbooksNew/index.cfm?TextID=firstfolio&PagePosition=759
>
>Kick the magnification up to 8x and scroll around--you'll
>soon see how much silent editing is going on in most
>Shakespearean texts.
>
>As I understand it, the same sort of thing is routinely done
>to Caesar's works.


Fuch Knaverie to practife vpon my credvlovs Fimplicitie!

"Firft, we'll kill all the Edittorf." - Fhakefpear
-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
Since 1983
Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996
305-273-4440
http://www.businesscycles.com
-------------------------------
 
an interesting method of judging for bearing preload or postload
is plugging your auditory channels with -33db ear plugs available at
ungungungh
placing your forehead against a nearby frame member (the cycle frame)
and then rotating, the assembly up for inspection.
try going thru your rig from one end to the other.
re-vealing