Update on USPS Global Priority (Airmail)

[Laurence Dodd]

I received my new Cateye Stadium 3 bikelight system from Bikeman.com It was delivered this morning
by the usual package delivery guy in the white van.

It only cost Aus$611.33 and that includes US$40 for freight and insurance, the light cost US$369.95

I didn't even have to pay GST or customs clearance. Now I have to get a US/Aus mains adaptor plug.

The battery was already charged, the light is bloody bright (has a blue hue), it lights up a dark
room, and it should since its advertised at equivalent to 80watts.

The best price for the Stadium 3 I could get around here was $910 from my LBS, or about $850 if I
got one from New Zealand. Otherwise you pay at least $1000. I just hope the unit lasts a long time
and the light always runs for the three hours it is advertised to run.

Problem now is I have to carry one of my water bottles in my backpack so I can have the light
battery pack in the bottle cage.

Regards, Laurence Dodd.

 

[Anonymous]

Laurence Dodd wrote:
> I received my new Cateye Stadium 3 bikelight system from Bikeman.com
>
> It only cost Aus$611.33 and that includes US$40 for freight and insurance,

You ... spent ... $600 ... on a bike light !!!????

Don't you think there is something a little obscene about that?

And it uses a NiMH battery! Isnt that a bit like getting a porsche and finding it has solid
rubber tyres?

Fer christ sake, ditch the el-cheapo boat-anchor battery and get a LiIon. About $200 for a 8-cell
60WHr model.

 

[John L]

$200 for a battery, that's obscene

Funnny how different people have different priorities. You have to smile when Mike criticises a
bloke for spending $600 on lights, then suggests he spends another $200

John L

>You ... spent ... $600 ... on a bike light !!!????
>
>Don't you think there is something a little obscene about that?
>
>And it uses a NiMH battery! Isnt that a bit like getting a porsche and finding it has solid
>rubber tyres?
>
>Fer christ sake, ditch the el-cheapo boat-anchor battery and get a LiIon. About $200 for a 8-cell
>60WHr model.

 

[Anonymous]

John L wrote:
> $200 for a battery, that's obscene
>
> Funnny how different people have different priorities. You have to smile when Mike criticises a
> bloke for spending $600 on lights, then suggests he spends another $200

For the humour/irony impaired: ;-) I hate having to use smileys.

Those metal-halide lamps really are impressive technolgy though. I believe they are rougly as
efficient as florescent lights, but its awfully hard to focus a floro.

I just wanted to say:
a) it seems an awful lot of money, when 10-20W halogens work just fine. But as you say, thats just
my priorities.
b) it does seem odd to not use LiIons with that kind of budget, considering the emphasis many
cycling accessories put on weight. I guess its just too new, and we will see LiIon in more
places soon.

 

[Glen F]

> b) it does seem odd to not use LiIons with that kind of budget, considering the emphasis many
> cycling accessories put on weight. I guess its just too new, and we will see LiIon in more
> places soon.

The latest crop of NiMH have about the same energy density by volume as Li-ion, at a`fraction of
the cost. Of course, by weight, Li still wins, but they suffer a range of other issues (discharge
cycle life, low maximum discharge rate, deep discharge intolerance, special charging need,
explosion/fire risk).

 

[Suzy Jackson]

"Glen F" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > b) it does seem odd to not use LiIons with that kind of budget, considering the emphasis many
> > cycling accessories put on weight. I guess its just too new, and we will see LiIon in more
> > places soon.
>
> The latest crop of NiMH have about the same energy density by volume as Li-ion, at a`fraction of
> the cost. Of course, by weight, Li still wins, but they suffer a range of other issues (discharge
> cycle life, low maximum discharge rate, deep discharge intolerance, special charging need,
> explosion/fire risk).

Best energy density I could find in NiMH was a Sanyo 4/3FA, 18mm dia by 67.5 long, and 62g, for
4500mAh at 1.2V. http://www.master-instruments.com.au/browse/Model/HR_4_3FAU.html

That works out to 87 Joules/kg, and 314 Joules/litre (assuming you can pack them 100%, which you
can't because they're round).

In Li-Polymer, I found the following:
http://www.master-instruments.com.au/browse/Model/SLPB526495.html which is 95mm x 64mm x 5.4mm, and
64g, for 3270mAh at 3.6V

That works out to a whopping 184 Joules/kg, and 359 Joules/litre.

If I were shelling out $600 for a light, I know which I'd go for. Just think, 2 hours of 20W light
in 250g...

As for charging difficulty and explosion risk, they're perfectly happy in my notetoy.

Regards,

Suzy

 

[Glen F]

> Best energy density I could find in NiMH was a Sanyo 4/3FA, 18mm dia by 67.5 long, and 62g, for
> 4500mAh at 1.2V. http://www.master-instruments.com.au/browse/Model/HR_4_3FAU.html That works out
> to 87 Joules/kg, and 314 Joules/litre (assuming you can pack them 100%, which you can't because
> they're round).
>
> In Li-Polymer, I found the following:
> http://www.master-instruments.com.au/browse/Model/SLPB526495.html which is 95mm x 64mm x 5.4mm,
> and 64g, for 3270mAh at 3.6V
>
> That works out to a whopping 184 Joules/kg, and 359 Joules/litre.

Which is about the same volume energy density as your NiMH figure - as I said. Also, we were
comparing Li-ion (which ARE round), not the newer Li-Polymer flat cells.

For info, the latest "Energiser" NiMH AA claims 2100mAh at nominal
1.2V = 2500mWh (actually that will be a bit less due to the voltage depression during discharge).
That is about 2.5 x 60 x 60 = 9000J. The package is about 50mm x 14.5mm dia = 0.008L, so we have
1100kJ/L Suggest maybe check your math...

 

[Tim Jones]

"Glen F" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Best energy density I could find in NiMH was a Sanyo 4/3FA, 18mm dia by 67.5 long, and 62g, for
> > 4500mAh at 1.2V. http://www.master-instruments.com.au/browse/Model/HR_4_3FAU.html That works out
> > to 87 Joules/kg, and 314 Joules/litre (assuming you can pack them 100%, which you can't because
> > they're round).
> >
> > In Li-Polymer, I found the following:
> > http://www.master-instruments.com.au/browse/Model/SLPB526495.html which is 95mm x 64mm x 5.4mm,
> > and 64g, for 3270mAh at 3.6V
> >
> > That works out to a whopping 184 Joules/kg, and 359 Joules/litre.
>
> Which is about the same volume energy density as your NiMH figure - as I said. Also, we were
> comparing Li-ion (which ARE round), not the newer Li-Polymer flat cells.
>
> For info, the latest "Energiser" NiMH AA claims 2100mAh at nominal
> 1.2V = 2500mWh (actually that will be a bit less due to the voltage depression during discharge).
> That is about 2.5 x 60 x 60 = 9000J. The package is about 50mm x 14.5mm dia = 0.008L, so we have
> 1100kJ/L Suggest maybe check your math...
>

On ebay at present, there are some bulk lots of batteries:

48 2100mAH AA (currently $240)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3051203036&category=31581

20 Nokia lipo batteries (currently $150) (3.6V about 900mAH)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3052297418&category=31581

A possibly cheap way of making a few lighting system packs?

Tim

 

[Glen F]

> On ebay at present, there are some bulk lots of batteries:
>
> 48 2100mAH AA (currently $240)
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3051203036&category=31581

That's ~$5ea - they are cheaper retail at some sources, and you don't have to buy 48! Ebay can be
very odd...

> 20 Nokia lipo batteries (currently $150) (3.6V about 900mAH)
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3052297418&category=31581
>
> A possibly cheap way of making a few lighting system packs?

The Li's only if you know EXACTLY what you are doing. There are several rather serious issues, not
least the explosion risk.

 

[Suzy Jackson]

"Glen F" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Best energy density I could find in NiMH was a Sanyo 4/3FA, 18mm dia by 67.5 long, and 62g, for
> > 4500mAh at 1.2V. http://www.master-instruments.com.au/browse/Model/HR_4_3FAU.html That works out
> > to 87 Joules/kg, and 314 Joules/litre (assuming you can pack them 100%, which you can't because
> > they're round).
> >
> > In Li-Polymer, I found the following:
> > http://www.master-instruments.com.au/browse/Model/SLPB526495.html which is 95mm x 64mm x 5.4mm,
> > and 64g, for 3270mAh at 3.6V
> >
> > That works out to a whopping 184 Joules/kg, and 359 Joules/litre.
>
> Which is about the same volume energy density as your NiMH figure - as I said. Also, we were
> comparing Li-ion (which ARE round), not the newer Li-Polymer flat cells.
>
> For info, the latest "Energiser" NiMH AA claims 2100mAh at nominal
> 1.2V = 2500mWh (actually that will be a bit less due to the voltage depression during discharge).
> That is about 2.5 x 60 x 60 = 9000J. The package is about 50mm x 14.5mm dia = 0.008L, so we have
> 1100kJ/L Suggest maybe check your math...

Math is ok, units are up the creek. Units are actually Wh/kg and Wh/litre.

Converting to Joules, we have 313kJ/kg and 1130 kJ/litre for the NiMH, and 662kJ/kg and 1300kJ/litre
for Li-Poly.

Your comment about Li-Ion and Li-Poly being an explosion risk is specious, IMHO. Just because you
can't charge them with a plug pack and a series resistor doesn't mean they're difficult to use. All
you need is a simple (relatively accurate) current limited and voltage limited power supply, and
you're made. In fact, fast charging Lithium chemistry batteries is considerably easier than NiMH and
NiCd, as you don't need thermistors or a peak detect cct.

As for discharge, a simple comparator and power fet is all that's required.

Regards,

Suzy