Updating/improving a 'vintage' bike

[larch_helium]

Hi

I recently bought a Raleigh Shadow from a guy who originally purchased it in 1986. It's in very good condition, but I am thinking about making a few changes. I've had a look at Sheldon Brown's website, but I just wanted to check a few things I didn't understand.

(Note: The below questions are not because I definitely want to change things, I am just interested to find out my options. I do realise there is a cost-implication, whether I focus on vintage or go for something more modern, and I realise a lot of people would question a desire to mess with something that is in near perfect condition for it's age and has 'vintage' parts already. As I say though, it really is a case of 'I wonder if...' not 'I want to...')

Firstly, this is probably a very silly question, but is there any way of knowing if the frame is definitely steel? There's no way it could be aluminium for example? )As far as I can tell, it is a very low-end Raleigh.)

Wheel size - the tyres are 27 x (if I remember correctly) 1/4, 32mm width. Can I change these to 700c if necessary/desired and if so, how thin could the tyre be?

Brakes - currently caliper style brakes, unbranded I think - I've been looking at vintage Campy calipers, how can I be sure they'll fit?

Chainset - currently very basic (only three bolts holding the chainrings!), cottered cranks, only one gear on the front, no front mech. My research suggests changing this will be quite difficult, apparently Raleigh had a proprietary bottom bracket with 26 TPI and had a wider shell than most BBs. Raleigh 26 TPI Bottom Brackets and Headsets by Sheldon Brown seems to have some answers but I'm not sure what is best for me? How do I find out for sure what threading I have? Sheldon Brown's first suggestion seems most sensible for me (if I even decide to actually do this), but by changing to cotterless cranks with that method would I also be able to put on a double chainset (+ other necessary bits)? Would I be limited to a specific chainset?

Rear cassette - Sachs Huret 5 speed, I think it's a freewheel, downtube index shifter, rear spacing 120mm (apparently). Does this have any bearing on changing the chainset (if that is even possible)?

Wheels/hubs/skewers - currently the wheels do not have a quick release system, they're held on by a nut. This is the least of my 'problems' (as it were), but again, just interested to know whether that is possible to change? I've been told that the rear dropouts preclude me from this. I will post pictures of this, and other parts tomorrow.


Sorry for the long post/numerous questions and thanks in advance.

 

[alfeng]

I recently bought a Raleigh Shadow from a guy who originally purchased it in 1986. It's in very good condition, but I am thinking about making a few changes. I've had a look at Sheldon Brown's website, but I just wanted to check a few things I didn't understand.

(Note: The below questions are not because I definitely want to change things, I am just interested to find out my options. I do realise there is a cost-implication, whether I focus on vintage or go for something more modern, and I realise a lot of people would question a desire to mess with something that is in near perfect condition for it's age and has 'vintage' parts already. As I say though, it really is a case of 'I wonder if...' not 'I want to...')

Firstly, this is probably a very silly question, but is there any way of knowing if the frame is definitely steel? There's no way it could be aluminium for example? )As far as I can tell, it is a very low-end Raleigh.)

See if a MAGNET will stick to the frame ...

Wheel size - the tyres are 27 x (if I remember correctly) 1/4, 32mm width. Can I change these to 700c if necessary/desired and if so, how thin could the tyre be?

You can theoretically change to 700c wheels ... a 700x32 tyre is equivalent to a 27"-1.25" tyre.

Brakes - currently caliper style brakes, unbranded I think - I've been looking at vintage Campy calipers, how can I be sure they'll fit?

If the bike has 27" wheels, then you will need LONG reach (49mm-59mm), maybe 63mm-75mm longer reach calipers.

Chainset - currently very basic (only three bolts holding the chainrings!), cottered cranks, only one gear on the front, no front mech. My research suggests changing this will be quite difficult, apparently Raleigh had a proprietary bottom bracket with 26 TPI and had a wider shell than most BBs. Raleigh 26 TPI Bottom Brackets and Headsets by Sheldon Brown seems to have some answers but I'm not sure what is best for me? How do I find out for sure what threading I have? Sheldon Brown's first suggestion seems most sensible for me (if I even decide to actually do this), but by changing to cotterless cranks with that method would I also be able to put on a double chainset (+ other necessary bits)? Would I be limited to a specific chainset?

Yes, many of the early Raleigh frames used a proprietary BB thread ...

BTW. Your bike may have been bought in 1986 by the previous owner, but the bike probably dates to 1976-or-before.

Take a close-up picture of the BB cups ... particularly, the driveside ... if the cup is FLUSH with the BB shell then it is one which has Raleigh's proprietary threading.

Regardless, you can simply replace the 'cottered' spindle with a square taper spindle AND use an appropriate/matching square taper crankset.

Rear cassette - Sachs Huret 5 speed, I think it's a freewheel, downtube index shifter, rear spacing 120mm (apparently). Does this have any bearing on changing the chainset (if that is even possible)?

No, you can use any crankset/chainset whose BB you can fit in the frame.

Wheels/hubs/skewers - currently the wheels do not have a quick release system, they're held on by a nut. This is the least of my 'problems' (as it were), but again, just interested to know whether that is possible to change? I've been told that the rear dropouts preclude me from this.

You can use quick release wheels ... you can either relace the current rims (presuming they are NOT steel) onto new hubs OR buy new wheels.

You will JUST want/need to use Shimano skewers ... there are others which will work, but the hubs you buy will probably be (should be) Shimano.

The only other hubs you should consider at this point in time are Campagnolo.

You CAN respace the frame to 126mm or 130mm ... this will probably feel as though it will take some effort but is doable ... DO NOT FOLLOW SHELDON BROWN'S RECOMMENDATION TO USE A 2X4/whatever!?! ... only use your upper body strength with whatever you perceive to be 30lbs of force + patience (because you will have to PULL, measure, and pull, again-and-again until you acheive the dropout spacing your want to achieve).

 

[alfeng]

A 49mm-59mm Shimano caliper is just long enough when using 27" wheels in my old Raleigh ...

A longer caliper [63mm-75mm(?)] had to used in the rear on the particular frame.

 

[larch_helium]

Right, here are some pictures:

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The bike and wheel rims are both steel.

I made some rudimentary measurements - front brake reach is from what I can tell 55mm. Are there any vintage/classic Campagnolo brakes I could use on this bike then?

For the bottom bracket, I was unsure what part the shell was, is it just the part of the frame i.e. just the black bit, or does it include the silver bits on the end that look octagonal? If it's just the black frame part, then it looks like roughly 65mm, but if it's the other measurement then it is about 75mm. Admittedly, changing the bottom bracket still seems quite drastic. Does this measurement tell me anything about spindle length though, or will I need to measure that seperately (I'd rather not take too much apart at the mo though)?

 

[alfeng]

The bike and wheel rims are both steel.

I made some rudimentary measurements - front brake reach is from what I can tell 55mm. Are there any vintage/classic Campagnolo brakes I could use on this bike then?

For the bottom bracket, I was unsure what part the shell was, is it just the part of the frame i.e. just the black bit, or does it include the silver bits on the end that look octagonal? If it's just the black frame part, then it looks like roughly 65mm, but if it's the other measurement then it is about 75mm. Admittedly, changing the bottom bracket still seems quite drastic. Does this measurement tell me anything about spindle length though, or will I need to measure that seperately (I'd rather not take too much apart at the mo though)?

Nice bike -- it's not a great bike, but it has a reasonably nice frame for a low-on-the-totem-pole bike.

The particular frame does not use Raleigh's proprietary Bottom Bracket; so, presumably, it has a standard ENGLISH threaded BB (there aren't too many options) ... and, you can replace the current crankset & BB with one from almost any vintage/era if-and-when the spirit moves you to do so.

A 'Carlton' decal on the bike would confirm that you can use an English threaded BB ...

The BB "shell" is the part of the frame into which the BB is inserted, BTW. On your frame, the length should be 68mm.

While currently the 49mm-to-59mm brake calipers are considered to be "long" reach, at one time the 49mm/50mm-to-59mm/60mm reach was THE "standard" reach and the current "standard" reach were considered to be "short" reach -- there are many, older Campagnolo brake calipers which you could use on the frame with the 27" wheels; but, none of the contemporary Campagnolo brake calipers would have a long enough reach.

The radius of the brake surface of a pair of 700c wheels is 4mm smaller than the radius of the brake surface on a 27" rim ... so, a pair of (now) "long reach" Campagnolo calipers should still fit (on the front).

You just need to find a pair and hope they don't cost more than you paid for the bike!

I'm not familiar with the "Shadow" decals ... so, the bike could be from a more recent vintage than I have suggested ... at this point, I'm going to suggest that the bike was probably made in 1977-to-1979 in Raleigh's regular factory.

 

[larch_helium]

Nice bike -- it's not a great bike, but it has a reasonably nice frame for a low-on-the-totem-pole bike.

The particular frame does not use Raleigh's proprietary Bottom Bracket; so, presumably, it has a standard ENGLISH threaded BB (there aren't too many options) ... and, you can replace the current crankset & BB with one from almost any vintage/era if-and-when the spirit moves you to do so.

A 'Carlton' decal on the bike would confirm that you can use an English threaded BB ...

The BB "shell" is the part of the frame into which the BB is inserted, BTW. On your frame, the length should be 68mm.

While currently the 49mm-to-59mm brake calipers are considered to be "long" reach, at one time the 49mm/50mm-to-59mm/60mm reach was THE "standard" reach and the current "standard" reach were considered to be "short" reach -- there are many, older Campagnolo brake calipers which you could use on the frame with the 27" wheels; but, none of the contemporary Campagnolo brake calipers would have a long enough reach.

The radius of the brake surface of a pair of 700c wheels is 4mm smaller than the radius of the brake surface on a 27" rim ... so, a pair of (now) "long reach" Campagnolo calipers should still fit (on the front).

You just need to find a pair and hope they don't cost more than you paid for the bike!

I'm not familiar with the "Shadow" decals ... so, the bike could be from a more recent vintage than I have suggested ... at this point, I'm going to suggest that the bike was probably made in 1977-to-1979 in Raleigh's regular factory.

Thanks for the compliment, I'm definitely happy with the bike, even if isn't quite the dream bike I'm after.

Can I ask how you know it isn't the proprietary BB? And where might I look for a Carlton decal, I don't recall seeing one tbh.

Regarding the brakes, do you know if there is any way to check the reach of any I might find on eBay say, other than actually asking the seller? Or could you maybe give me some names/dates that I might be looking for?

Once again, thanks.

 

[alfeng]

Can I ask how you know it isn't the proprietary BB? And where might I look for a Carlton decal, I don't recall seeing one tbh.

If there are Carlton decals, they will be on the fork below the shoulder at about the rim level ... and, on the downtube (probably, between the head tube and the downtube shifters).

The easiest way to tell that the frame does or doesn't have a Raleigh BB is you have a METRIC ruler -- Raleigh's proprietary BB fits in a 71mm wide shell ...

A standard English BB fits in a 68mm wide shell.

BTW. The cable guides (one is unused) which are on the underside will allow you to easily convert to a double-or-triple chainring crankset in the future.

Regarding the brakes, do you know if there is any way to check the reach of any I might find on eBay say, other than actually asking the seller? Or could you maybe give me some names/dates that I might be looking for?

"Long" and "short" reach brakes were made concurrently ... so, the date of manufacture will not be a good guide.

You should presume that the brakes are "short" reach (either 39mm-49mm or 40mm-50mm if Campagnolo) unless otherwise stated to be longer.

 

[alfeng]

Regarding the brakes, do you know if there is any way to check the reach of any I might find on eBay say, other than actually asking the seller? Or could you maybe give me some names/dates that I might be looking for?

BTW. Why did you want to change the brake calipers?

 

[larch_helium]

BTW. Why did you want to change the brake calipers?

Again, no real reason, more a wondering what's possible. At the moment, I'm more likely to change the tyres as I would like thinner ones, and I'm very interested in changing to a double if it truly is possible. If money (and sense) were no problem, then if I did change things, I would try and get vintage Campag stuff, and if I'm getting vintage Campy stuff and money was no problem, then I might consider going the whole hog and getting as much stuff as possible. That's really why I'm asking about the brakes.

 

[alfeng]

Again, no real reason, more a wondering what's possible. At the moment, I'm more likely to change the tyres as I would like thinner ones, and I'm very interested in changing to a double if it truly is possible. If money (and sense) were no problem, then if I did change things, I would try and get vintage Campag stuff, and if I'm getting vintage Campy stuff and money was no problem, then I might consider going the whole hog and getting as much stuff as possible. That's really why I'm asking about the brakes.

OTHER THAN the rear spacing (which you may eventually want to change to 130mm), the frame is ready-to-go ... and, only your budget will be a limiting factor in any component changes you may want to make.

BTW. As I mentioned, there are cable guides under the Bottom Bracket for both front & rear derailleurs ... THAT did seem to become the norm (due to reduced manufacturing cost) in the early 80s ...

The tighter wheel clearance + lesser fork rake ARE more typical of bikes from the 80s than the 70s ...

However, your bike has an odd mix of 70s vintage components ... that Huret (even if it's not labeled as such) rear derailleur is definitely 70s (if not 60s) vintage ... and, almost all manufacturers stopped selling bikes with cottered cranks by the late 70s.

It could be that Raleigh had bins of old inventory that they were trying to use. Who knows?!?

Anyway, as I said, the frame is good-to-go if you want to put a double-or-triple crankset on it ...

IMO, vintage Campagnolo Nuovo Record looks better than most other vintage "stuff" BUT Shimano's derailleurs/stuff from the same vintage actually worked better (for me) ... and, some people say that SunTour (which I never used) actually set the standard for performance in the 70s.

 

[rschleicher]

In support of what others have said, that bike does seem to be from the 70's. By 1980 all Raleigh road bikes were I believe using cotterless cranks. Also by that time they were using pretty standard bottom bracket threading.

You mentioned having indexed downtube shifters - that seems more recent, so perhaps they were added later. Or are they not really indexed, but just friction shifters with a ratchet mechanism?

The Huret RD seems like it is also more associated with a 70's Raleigh - I also think that the vast majority of Raleighs were using various Suntour deralleurs and shifters (even if Raleigh-branded).

I know you said you were already looking at Sheldon Brown's web site for info, but have you looked at this link yet?

Retro Raleighs

If you pore over the .pdf files of various years of Raleigh catalogs, you may spot bikes that look like yours.

(My own 1980 Raleigh is a "Super Record", which unfortunately is not so-named from using Campy Super Record, but rather because it is a slightly up-graded version of a Raleigh Record (basically half-way between a Record, and a Grand Prix). So it's a low-end to middling Raleigh...

 

[oldbobcat]

The Shadow doesn't appear in any of the '70s or '80s Raleigh catalogs, but I did find a different version of it, a 5-speed model, on ebay.co.uk. The seller presumed his was a sort of makeup model for a UK sporting goods chain. To me it really has the look of "undistinguished '80s Asian frame hung with leftover parts."

If it were mine I'd think about converting it to a single speed or fixie for running errands around town.

 

[alfeng]

The Shadow doesn't appear in any of the '70s or '80s Raleigh catalogs, but I did find a different version of it, a 5-speed model, on ebay.co.uk. The seller presumed his was a sort of makeup model for a UK sporting goods chain. To me it really has the look of "undistinguished '80s Asian frame hung with leftover parts."

I love "undistinguished" frames -- be they British, French, Japanese, whatever (I don't think that there can be an undistinguished Italian frame) -- as much as the high-zoot frames.

 

[larch_helium]

Converting to single speed/fixie is certainy something that has crossed my mind. However, it is the only bike I own at the mo, and it will be a long time before I can afford (and persuade my girlfriend to let me have ) another one. And whilst my journey to work is currently fairly flat (and is generally ridden in only one gear anyway), I still do love having gears. So when I do get another geared bike, and if I still have this Raleigh, then yes, I think it will be conversion time.

And for those who are interested, I have decided to leave this bike mostly alone. I still want to change the crankset though and get a cotterless one, but I won't bother getting a double, I'll try and source a track-style crankset and a lowish-end bottom bracket. Oh, and if I ever find cheap Campy brake levers with the gum hoods, then I would like to put those on.

 

[alfeng]

The Shadow doesn't appear in any of the '70s or '80s Raleigh catalogs, but I did find a different version of it, a 5-speed model, on ebay.co.uk. The seller presumed his was a sort of makeup model for a UK sporting goods chain. To me it really has the look of "undistinguished '80s Asian frame hung with leftover parts."

BTW. The headtube 'decal' does indicate that the frame was indeed fabricated in Nottingham.

 

[oldbobcat]

Raleigh was headquartered in Nottingham. According to Sheldon Brown, after Raleigh's acquisition by Huffy in 1982, all exports to the US came from Japan. So I stand corrected--if manufacture was before 1982, or if it was a non-export bike, it could have been made in England.

But stamped steel dropouts, stamped bolt-on derailleur hanger, stamped steel one-piece crank arm with chainwheel (welded to the crank), Huret Eco derailleur, stamped pedals with non-maintainable bearings, brake levers with pivots for extensions, steel rims, and non-quick-release hubs indicate low-end. The sidepull brakes and under-the-BB cable routing suggest manufacture at least after 1978. Raleigh was slow to trickle down the racer-influenced sidepull brake trend. The saddle and seatpost, sophisticated by even 1980s standards, were obviously owner add-ons.

Incidentally, there were many undistinguished Italian frames, many from otherwise distinguished makers: Atala, Botecchia, Gios, Bianchi, Wilier, to name a few. Except for Atala and Botecchia, most of these were never for export to the US.

 

[larch_helium]

I found the frame number (I think), on the back of the seat tube - ND6124564. Does this tell me anything?