Upgrade from 8 sp. Campy to 10 sp. Campy/Shimano

[MitchFrank]

Greetings,

I'm riding a 9 year-old Serotta TG road bike that I love. I've been using 8 speed Campy Veloce Ergopower parts for all 9 years and they are starting to fall apart. I thought it a good opportunity to upgrade to 10 speed Chorus or Shimano and am willing to swap out the gruppo to keep the frame. This is a racing/triathlon bike and needs some more aero parts as well, so I will also add a new wheelset.

What do I need to worry about when doing this upgrade? I've read that spacing that will accommodate 8 speed will work for 10, but I wanted to get some more advice. Thanks!

 

[John M]

Greetings,

I'm riding a 9 year-old Serotta TG road bike that I love. I've been using 8 speed Campy Veloce Ergopower parts for all 9 years and they are starting to fall apart. I thought it a good opportunity to upgrade to 10 speed Chorus or Shimano and am willing to swap out the gruppo to keep the frame. This is a racing/triathlon bike and needs some more aero parts as well, so I will also add a new wheelset.

What do I need to worry about when doing this upgrade? I've read that spacing that will accommodate 8 speed will work for 10, but I wanted to get some more advice. Thanks!

Yes the frame spacing for 8s (130mm) will acommodate 10s without problems. Unfortunately, the campy 8s components won't work with 10s except for the crankset and front derailleur (not ideal front shifting but it will work acceptably-I know this from experience). If you like the Ergopower, I would stick with Campy. You can keep your old brakes, get new wheels, rear derailleur, and shifters (ERGO or barends), 10s chain and 10s cassette. Ideally you may want a new 10s FD and possibly a 10s large chainring.

There is nothing you really need to "worry" about except to keep in mind that the new stuff won't interchange with the old.

 

[wooliferkins]

Remember 2007 Chorus is new style QS/ultra torq style and QS changers are designed to operate with QS mechs. Looks v pretty with the drilled out brakes.

 

[alfeng]

Greetings,

I'm riding a 9 year-old Serotta TG road bike that I love. I've been using 8 speed Campy Veloce Ergopower parts for all 9 years and they are starting to fall apart. I thought it a good opportunity to upgrade to 10 speed Chorus or Shimano and am willing to swap out the gruppo to keep the frame. This is a racing/triathlon bike and needs some more aero parts as well, so I will also add a new wheelset.

What do I need to worry about when doing this upgrade? I've read that spacing that will accommodate 8 speed will work for 10, but I wanted to get some more advice. Thanks!

You have to worry about your wallet, first!

You will probably be advised to spend beaucoup-bucks -- you can spend a few hundred OR easily a thousand (or, more!) if you want to do it all at once.

Of course, I recommend that you stay with Campagnolo UNLESS you are going to use BAR ENDS on clip-ons for your shifting ...

The freehub body on your rear hub can be easily upgraded to a contemporary 10-speed Campagnolo freehub body if you don't want your current rim relaced to a new hub (if only for a backup/training wheelset) ... it might be less expensive to buy a Mirage 10-speed hub and swap freehub bodies (watch out for those pawls!) than to buy the parts, separately.

Your rear derailleur MAY actually work with a 10-speed Campagnolo cassette if you change to narrower pulleys & pulley bolts (and possibly, a different inner cage arm if it comes perilously close to your spokes). My early-vintage 9-speed Chorus Campagnolo rear derailleur (it looks like the "last" 8-speed rear derailleurs) was OKAY with a 10-speed cassette.

You can, for the time being, continue to use your front derailleur, but will undoubtedly need an extra "click" to move the narrower chain between the chainrings.

BTW. The indexing cog in the ULTRA shifters are drilled & teflon coated -- it saves on break-in period and probably reduces the weight by a gram. You can opt for 2006 shifters to save money ...

Personally, I would recommend you track down a NOS set of Chorus shifters with aluminum levers ... unless the BLING factor is important ... OR, considering you managed 9-years of use from your current Veloce shifters, that you simply get a set of 2006 Veloce/Centaur shifters (the non-Record/non-Chorus 2007 shifters have apparently been "hobbled") ...

FWIW. I think the jury is still out on Campagnolo's Ultra Torque crankset (at least, as far as I am concerned!) ... I must be the only person who can envision problems with the mechanical connection that joins the two halves of the crankset's spindle OR subsequent premature (vs. anticipated life) wear/failure of the bearings as a consequence thereof. Having said that, I anticipate a redesign in two-or-three (?) years to a one-piece spindle; but, maybe I'm worrying needlessly about this design variation of cranks with external bearings.

That's a long way of saying that you should consider just getting the shifters, cassette, chain & pulley wheels (and, rear freehub/hub OR wheelset), first ... and, wait on the other (?) stuff.

BTW2. It's actually pretty easy to make a 10-speed ERGO shifter index to an 8-speed cassette ... in case you didn't want to drop more money than necessary at this point in time.

There are MORE Shimano cassettes available than Campagnolo cassettes ... the Shimano cassettes are universally available. THAT is a plus to consider with regard to your future wheelset ... a limited number of Shimano-to-Campagnolo 10-speed conversion cassettes are available.

 

[wooliferkins]

You have to worry about your wallet, first!

You will probably be advised to spend beaucoup-bucks -- you can spend a few hundred OR easily a thousand (or, more!) if you want to do it all at once.

Of course, I recommend that you stay with Campagnolo UNLESS you are going to use BAR ENDS on clip-ons for your shifting ...

The freehub body on your rear hub can be easily upgraded to a contemporary 10-speed Campagnolo freehub body if you don't want your current rim relaced to a new hub (if only for a backup/training wheelset) ... it might be less expensive to buy a Mirage 10-speed hub and swap freehub bodies (watch out for those pawls!) than to buy the parts, separately.

Your rear derailleur MAY actually work with a 10-speed Campagnolo cassette if you change to narrower pulleys & pulley bolts (and possibly, a different inner cage arm if it comes perilously close to your spokes). My early-vintage 9-speed Chorus Campagnolo rear derailleur (it looks like the "last" 8-speed rear derailleurs) was OKAY with a 10-speed cassette.

You can, for the time being, continue to use your front derailleur, but will undoubtedly need an extra "click" to move the narrower chain between the chainrings.

BTW. The indexing cog in the ULTRA shifters are drilled & teflon coated -- it saves on break-in period and probably reduces the weight by a gram. You can opt for 2006 shifters to save money ...

Personally, I would recommend you track down a NOS set of Chorus shifters with aluminum levers ... unless the BLING factor is important ... OR, considering you managed 9-years of use from your current Veloce shifters, that you simply get a set of 2006 Veloce/Centaur shifters (the non-Record/non-Chorus 2007 shifters have apparently been "hobbled") ...

FWIW. I think the jury is still out on Campagnolo's Ultra Torque crankset (at least, as far as I am concerned!) ... I must be the only person who can envision problems with the mechanical connection that joins the two halves of the crankset's spindle OR subsequent premature (vs. anticipated life) wear/failure of the bearings as a consequence thereof. Having said that, I anticipate a redesign in two-or-three (?) years to a one-piece spindle; but, maybe I'm worrying needlessly about this design variation of cranks with external bearings.

That's a long way of saying that you should consider just getting the shifters, cassette, chain & pulley wheels (and, rear freehub/hub OR wheelset), first ... and, wait on the other (?) stuff.

BTW2. It's actually pretty easy to make a 10-speed ERGO shifter index to an 8-speed cassette ... in case you didn't want to drop more money than necessary at this point in time.

There are MORE Shimano cassettes available than Campagnolo cassettes ... the Shimano cassettes are universally available. THAT is a plus to consider with regard to your future wheelset ... a limited number of Shimano-to-Campagnolo 10-speed conversion cassettes are available.

Good gen Alfeng. Re the Ultra torque, it's not much different to the coupling in a Sikorsky helicopter drivetrain that allows the Wessex or Sea King tail to fold. That works under much greater torsional loads. As long as it isnt as big a pain as the Mega Exo bugger me my left crank is loose again system we'll be alright.

 

[alfeng]

Re the Ultra torque, it's not much different to the coupling in a Sikorsky helicopter drivetrain that allows the Wessex or Sea King tail to fold. That works under much greater torsional loads. As long as it isnt as big a pain as the Mega Exo bugger me my left crank is loose again system we'll be alright.

I do/vaguely understand the prior uses of the Hirth Coupling, but the problem I envision is that since the rotation of the spindle isn't perfectly centered due to pedaling forces -- hence, the coupling is stressed UN-uniformly -- I question whether-or-not the load is shared as equally (not that it is equally shared -- remember, many early cartridge bearing Bottom Brackets only had ONE cartridge on the drive side; but now, most have two cartridge bearings on the drive side ...) between the two bearings as it would be with a solid spindle.

So, in addition to the perhaps-miniscule possibility of the bearing wear being unexpectedly high with the Ultra Torque crankset, isn't there an additional vertical/axial/tangential/whatever force on the coupling-itself if/as a rider (at the extreme) gets out of the saddle and sprints where the bearing is the fulcrum?

That is, how well does a Hirth Coupling's finger-joint resist non-rotational (axial) stresses?

How many times can you bend a coat hanger before it breaks?

So, if there is an unequal distribution because of the Hirth Coupling, wouldn't that create a bearing-wear situation akin to having a BB shell that wasn't perfectly faced?

... The Hirth Coupling (possibly) aggravates the uneven load on the cartridge bearings, and the subsequent bearing wear aggravates the stress on the Hirth Coupling ... ad infinitum, until failure occurs at the bearing OR (possibly) the connecting bolt eventually/potentially shears.

EVEN granite erodes to sand over time ...

 

[wooliferkins]

I do/vaguely understand the prior uses of the Hirth Coupling, but the problem I envision is that since the rotation of the spindle isn't perfectly centered due to pedaling forces -- hence, the coupling is stressed UN-uniformly -- I question whether-or-not the load is shared as equally (not that it is equally shared -- remember, many early cartridge bearing Bottom Brackets only had ONE cartridge on the drive side; but now, most have two cartridge bearings on the drive side ...) between the two bearings as it would be with a solid spindle.

So, in addition to the perhaps-miniscule possibility of the bearing wear being unexpectedly high with the Ultra Torque crankset, isn't there an additional vertical/axial/tangential/whatever force on the coupling-itself if/as a rider (at the extreme) gets out of the saddle and sprints where the bearing is the fulcrum?

That is, how well does a Hirth Coupling's finger-joint resist non-rotational (axial) stresses?

How many times can you bend a coat hanger before it breaks?

So, if there is an unequal distribution because of the Hirth Coupling, wouldn't that create a bearing-wear situation akin to having a BB shell that wasn't perfectly faced?

... The Hirth Coupling (possibly) aggravates the uneven load on the cartridge bearings, and the subsequent bearing wear aggravates the stress on the Hirth Coupling ... ad infinitum, until failure occurs at the bearing OR (possibly) the connecting bolt eventually/potentially shears.

EVEN granite erodes to sand over time ...

We were talking about the width of BB shells tonight at work. With the precision needed for this to mesh properly how do you take up the different widths in faced shells? We think a couple of thou could prove crucial