Upgrade... the kind you don't ride

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Jimbo(san), Sep 16, 2005.

  1. Jimbo(san)

    Jimbo(san) New Member

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    An upgrade can be a good thing.
    Last night I finally got around to taking off the XT hydros from my Bullit and moving them over to my hardtail…
    Years ago I moved from v-brakes to mechanical discs. I loved the power and dependability… The hydros seem to be the next step… I have all the power and much better modulation.

    It took me some doing to get the brakes on the bike. I made some mistakes. I really thought a bottle of Shimano’s mineral oil was used completely for one brake. No big deal. I have extra mineral oil… a lot of extra mineral oil.

    I had 1300 mm hose that fit the rear brake well… So all I had to do was get the hose on and bleed it up… It was not at all as bad as I had anticipated. The front was coming off a bike with a dual crown fork so the line seemed very long. I purchased a braided line but since they don’t make them for Shimano anymore I had a hell of of a time finding one to fit. The cutable hoses were just a little too expensive. I just used the front set up the way it was. The hose was a bit long. I got creative with the zip ties and it is not a half bad job.

    The first thing I noticed is how heavy my bike really is… 29.5 lbs for a hardtail!
    The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again… While Carla slept on the couch I rode the neighborhood playing on obstacles and generally having a great time.

    I arrived home and woke up Carla… Showed her the complete job and we talked about the weight issue. I don’t see anything on my bike I am willing to “downgrade” for a weight savings…

    Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you
    Slinky seat? My Koobie is not a light weight… neither am I
    Wheels are already pretty light… I just took off the 2.4 wire beads and put on some Kevlar bead 2.1s… I am tempted to go back to fat fat tires.

    Carbon cranks? Why?
    Steel Frame…. I am not giving my steel frame up. 4.4 lbs of pure joy

    I guess I just have to live up to the fact I am a fat guy on a fat bike…


    At least I can stop it now
     
    Tags:


  2. gabrielle

    gabrielle Guest

    On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:

    > The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again…


    brakes good.

    > Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you

    carbon scary.

    have fun with your "new" ride!

    gabrielle
     
  3. GeeDubb

    GeeDubb Guest

    "gabrielle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]
    > On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:
    >
    >> The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.

    >
    > brakes good.
    >
    >> Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you

    > carbon scary.


    I've been toying with danger for over three years now. I keep thinking
    about replacing the carbon bar when I'm riding but then forget when I'm not
    riding....

    I should order one now......

    Gary
    >
    > have fun with your "new" ride!
    >
    > gabrielle
    >
    >
     
  4. Andy H

    Andy H Guest

    "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:s7%[email protected]
    >
    > "gabrielle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:p[email protected]
    >> On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:
    >>
    >>> The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.

    >>
    >> brakes good.
    >>
    >>> Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you

    >>
    >>

    >
    >

    Are they that bad? Or is it just in the way they fail if (when?) they do?

    Andy
     
  5. GeeDubb

    GeeDubb Guest

    "Andy H" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    >
    > "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:s7%[email protected]
    >>
    >> "gabrielle" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]
    >>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.
    >>>
    >>> brakes good.
    >>>
    >>>> Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    > Are they that bad? Or is it just in the way they fail if (when?) they do?
    >
    > Andy
    >
    >


    Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises. They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
    one......so I have a death wish!
    Gary
     
  6. Ride-A-Lot

    Ride-A-Lot Guest

    GeeDubb wrote:
    > "Andy H" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    >> "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:s7%[email protected]
    >>> "gabrielle" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]
    >>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.
    >>>> brakes good.
    >>>>
    >>>>> Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you
    >>>>
    >>>

    >> Are they that bad? Or is it just in the way they fail if (when?) they do?
    >>
    >> Andy
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises. They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
    > one......so I have a death wish!
    > Gary
    >
    >


    Same here on the id and racer-x. Well, the road bike too but I'm just
    waiting to get picked off anyway.

    If Thompson made bars, I'd be all over it. I can't understand why he
    hasn't gone that way yet.

    --
    o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
    www.schnauzers.ws
     
  7. Carla A-G

    Carla A-G Guest

    "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises.

    They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
    > one......so I have a death wish!
    > Gary


    Ditto.

    - CA-G

    Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!
     
  8. GeeDubb wrote:
    > "Andy H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>
    >> "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:s7%[email protected]
    >>>
    >>> "gabrielle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:p[email protected]
    >>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.
    >>>>
    >>>> brakes good.
    >>>>
    >>>>> Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Are they that bad? Or is it just in the way they fail if (when?)
    >> they do? Andy
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises.
    > They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
    > one......so I have a death wish! Gary


    *sigh* more myth being perpetuated...

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  9. Andy H

    Andy H Guest

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:%[email protected]
    > GeeDubb wrote:
    >> "Andy H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>>
    >>> "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:s7%[email protected]
    >>>>
    >>>> "gabrielle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>> news:p[email protected]
    >>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> brakes good.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> Are they that bad? Or is it just in the way they fail if (when?)
    >>> they do? Andy
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises.
    >> They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
    >> one......so I have a death wish! Gary

    >
    > *sigh* more myth being perpetuated...
    >
    > --
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training
    >

    So what is the truth squid? I've only heard the myth to date but I wouldn't
    mind giving a carbon bar a go for it's reputed ability to absorb vibes/shock
    better than alloy 'cos me wrist's are getting a bit sore these days
    (sparkies syndrome you know).

    Andy
     
  10. GeeDubb

    GeeDubb Guest

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:%[email protected]
    > GeeDubb wrote:
    >> "Andy H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>>
    >>> "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:s7%[email protected]
    >>>>
    >>>> "gabrielle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>> news:p[email protected]
    >>>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:21:16 +1000, Jimbo wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> The next thing was how nice it is to have working brakes again.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> brakes good.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Carbon bars? I like my teeth thank you
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> Are they that bad? Or is it just in the way they fail if (when?)
    >>> they do? Andy
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises.
    >> They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
    >> one......so I have a death wish! Gary

    >
    > *sigh* more myth being perpetuated...
    >
    > --
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training
    >


    I've seen it happen plus being a Materials Engineer gives me plenty of
    opportunity to quiz the composite guys. So what's the real story?

    Gary
     
  11. Jimbo (san) wrote:
    > <shnip>
    >
    > I guess I just have to live up to the fact I am a fat guy on a fat
    > bike...
    >
    >
    > At least I can stop it now
    >
    >
    > --
    > Jimbo(san)


    Guys who ride in hockey jerseys should never ride weight-weenie bikes.
    Period.

    /s
     
  12. gabrielle

    gabrielle Guest

    On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:13:01 -0400, Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

    > GeeDubb wrote:


    >> Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking noises.
    >> They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
    >> one......so I have a death wish! Gary

    >
    > *sigh* more myth being perpetuated...


    Have you seen a carbon "thingy" (handlebar, frame, kayak paddle) fail? I
    have. It's nasty, and not something I'd want on the front of my bike. I
    like my chest in one piece, TYVM.

    gabrielle
     
  13. gabrielle wrote:
    > On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:13:01 -0400, Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    >
    >> GeeDubb wrote:

    >
    >>> Carbon bars break w/o warning. No visible cracks or creaking
    >>> noises. They just break and your f**ked. But I'm still riding with
    >>> one......so I have a death wish! Gary

    >>
    >> *sigh* more myth being perpetuated...

    >
    > Have you seen a carbon "thingy" (handlebar, frame, kayak paddle)
    > fail?


    Sure - we had to extract a broken seatpost last week at the shop.

    > I have. It's nasty, and not something I'd want on the front
    > of my bike. I like my chest in one piece, TYVM.


    Then tell me about the failure mode. I've seen a car wrapped around a tree.
    It's horrific, and not something I'd want to be involved in. Therefore, I
    won't use a car.

    If you take care of your stuff, you examine it for cracks or marks of any
    kind, and you don't ride oblivious to what could be wrong, then you'll be
    fine.

    Ask yourself this: if carbon fiber was so deadly, so apt to fail, so
    dangerous, and so chest-impaling, how could the Consumer Product Safety
    Commission keep any structural CF bicycle products on the market? Sure
    there are a few bad apples, but then there are plenty of bad-apple aluminum
    components. That's a result of bad design.

    Carbon/aluminum seatposts are a bad idea, IMO, because the epoxy binding the
    Al clamp portion to the shaft portion is simply not up to snuff. Carbon
    handlebars, on the other hand, are not something to pull your hair out over.

    By the way, kayak paddle? That's asking for failure... rocks and logs and
    sharp things gouging into the surface will undoubtedly cause it to fail
    after enough cycles...

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  14. GeeDubb

    GeeDubb Guest

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" snip extraneous stuff

    >>
    >> I've seen it happen plus being a Materials Engineer gives me plenty of
    >> opportunity to quiz the composite guys. So what's the real story?
    >>
    >> Gary

    >
    > Great! So then why don't you say that crack initiation starts with
    > miniscule surface finish imperfections that grow into larger cracks with a
    > higher number of cycles?


    That's the clue: You, me and anybody else but superman can't see the
    imperfections or small scratches that cause the ultimate failure unless you
    use a fairly large magnifying glass. The bar in particular I'm talking
    about had never been in a crash, didn't appear (to the naked eye) to be
    damaged in anyway prior to it snapping. The rider was about 165 lbs and was
    riding x-country stuff.

    Sure it's less than metals, but don't tell me that
    > a properly-made carbon fiber handlebar (with an infinite fatigue life)


    I guess that's why they take cf blades (aerospace stuff) out of service
    after so many hours of use???

    will
    > "just break and your f**ked." A rider should be examining for scratches
    > or characteristics that would cause such a component to fail. This kind
    > of scaremongering these days is out for companies to cover their asses.
    >
    > Tell me that the bike was crashed; tell me that the handlebar was
    > scratched up circumferentially near the stem clamp; tell me that there was
    > an overweight rider using stupid-light handlebars. But don't tell me that
    > "They just break and your f**ked... so I have a death wish."


    They do just break because the normal individual doesn't have the ability to
    detect the flaws. No, they don't break for no reason but it's not nearly as
    evident as Al bars that give you some warning (usually audible and visible
    if you're looking).

    >
    > I had a teammate of mine tell me that a bike shop wouldn't bend his Hayes
    > hydro lever blades back straight because they were aluminum and they would
    > fatigue and break on him if they bent them back 5 degrees. More CYA in
    > effect. The factor of safety in a component like this is probably way
    > over anything anyone would come close to even with repeated bends.
    >
    > FYI, I raced my re-welded beer-can aluminum XTC frame (rewelded on the
    > chainstay near the BB even!) with no problems this past weekend. No heat
    > treatment... if/when it fails, I'll let you guys know.


    Why'd it break, originally? Impact? Fatigue? Both? And when it breaks
    again, I doubt you won't be given some warning, visible or audible.

    Gary
    > --
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training
    >
     
  15. GeeDubb wrote:
    > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" snip extraneous stuff
    >
    >>>
    >>> I've seen it happen plus being a Materials Engineer gives me plenty
    >>> of opportunity to quiz the composite guys. So what's the real
    >>> story? Gary

    >>
    >> Great! So then why don't you say that crack initiation starts with
    >> miniscule surface finish imperfections that grow into larger cracks
    >> with a higher number of cycles?

    >
    > That's the clue: You, me and anybody else but superman can't see the
    > imperfections or small scratches that cause the ultimate failure
    > unless you use a fairly large magnifying glass. The bar in
    > particular I'm talking about had never been in a crash, didn't appear
    > (to the naked eye) to be damaged in anyway prior to it snapping. The
    > rider was about 165 lbs and was riding x-country stuff.


    Did you examine it *before* it broke?

    > Sure it's less than metals, but don't tell me that
    >> a properly-made carbon fiber handlebar (with an infinite fatigue
    >> life)

    >
    > I guess that's why they take cf blades (aerospace stuff) out of
    > service after so many hours of use???


    Turbine blades? Which ones in particular, because I've never heard of
    blades being made of CF... it gets way too hot, so much that the superalloy
    needs a zirconium coating to insulate it from the heat.

    > will
    >> "just break and your f**ked." A rider should be examining for
    >> scratches or characteristics that would cause such a component to
    >> fail. This kind of scaremongering these days is out for companies
    >> to cover their asses. Tell me that the bike was crashed; tell me that the
    >> handlebar was
    >> scratched up circumferentially near the stem clamp; tell me that
    >> there was an overweight rider using stupid-light handlebars. But
    >> don't tell me that "They just break and your f**ked... so I have a
    >> death wish."

    >
    > They do just break because the normal individual doesn't have the
    > ability to detect the flaws. No, they don't break for no reason but
    > it's not nearly as evident as Al bars that give you some warning
    > (usually audible and visible if you're looking).


    In your opinion, are they safe? Do they need warning stickers stating that
    they need to be evaluated or even replaced after every crash? Did your bars
    have a warning pamphlet/sticker? Is it really as dangerous for the average
    person as you seem to imply? Should they be on the market, in your opinion?

    >>
    >> I had a teammate of mine tell me that a bike shop wouldn't bend his
    >> Hayes hydro lever blades back straight because they were aluminum
    >> and they would fatigue and break on him if they bent them back 5
    >> degrees. More CYA in effect. The factor of safety in a component
    >> like this is probably way over anything anyone would come close to
    >> even with repeated bends. FYI, I raced my re-welded beer-can aluminum XTC
    >> frame (rewelded on
    >> the chainstay near the BB even!) with no problems this past weekend.
    >> No heat treatment... if/when it fails, I'll let you guys know.

    >
    > Why'd it break, originally? Impact? Fatigue? Both? And when it
    > breaks again, I doubt you won't be given some warning, visible or
    > audible.


    A combination of impacts with successive fatigue, worsened by residual
    stresses from the dents of the impacts. I'll get some pictures up sometime.
    I'm not sure exactly what happened... it's actually a customer's warranteed
    frame that was headed for the dumpster. Plus if it breaks, the rear wheel
    will, at the worst, skew aside in the dropouts and lock up. No real biggie.

    I understand your caution... I was a bit rude with my comments. It's always
    better to be safe than sorry. Plus, I get to play with peoples' "broken"
    stuff! ;)

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  16. GeeDubb

    GeeDubb Guest

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" knows what we're talking about so.....

    tired of reading between the lines! I was talking helicoptor tail rotors
    but now that I think about them I believe they are a composite using both
    aluminum and carbon fiber.

    bottom line was I didn't check the bar prior to it breaking. The guy riding
    claims he checks his bikes thoroughly so I can only take his word. It was a
    nasty thing to see but then I've also seen the (aftermath) steer tube break
    off an aluminum bike. That sort of failure should have been obvious to the
    guy riding it, after all, he is an engineer for Honeywell (old Garrett
    turbine engine division)........

    I'm still riding a 3.5 year old cf bar (~4500 off road miles) and probably
    won't replace it until I have to. Visually it's intact but I haven't got
    the big glass to check for small cracks/abrasions. I've crashed with it and
    mounted lights on it on wierd angles and probably have scratched the
    surface. I'm also 195 lbs and pretty hard on it. It still looks and feels
    solid. Should I replace it? Probably. I'm too cheap.

    GAry
     
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