Upgrading wheels

[skydive69]

I got into cycling about 4 months ago not knowing I was about to go nuts over it. If I had known how much I was going to love it, I would have gone a bit upscale in my choice of ride. I own a Specialized Sequoia Elite, and would have probably purchased a Roubaix Pro if I knew then what I know now.

I want to upgrade my bike a bit, and it seems that the biggest bang for the buck would be a wheel upgrade. My local dealer has a great sale going on Mavic Ksyrium SSC Elites ($725 the pair).

I assume that with these lighter and more aero wheels then the ones that come stock on the Sequoia, the bike would perhaps climb and accelerate a bit better - is this true? Is there any other benefit I might gain from upgrading to those wheels?

I am agonizing over just saving the money until I can afford a Roubaix, but I love the incredible comfort of the Sequoia, and I seem to be able to hang with the over 20 mph crowd in the group rides.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[velomanct]

I got into cycling about 4 months ago not knowing I was about to go nuts over it. If I had known how much I was going to love it, I would have gone a bit upscale in my choice of ride. I own a Specialized Sequoia Elite, and would have probably purchased a Roubaix Pro if I knew then what I know now.

I want to upgrade my bike a bit, and it seems that the biggest bang for the buck would be a wheel upgrade. My local dealer has a great sale going on Mavic Ksyrium SSC Elites ($725 the pair).

I assume that with these lighter and more aero wheels then the ones that come stock on the Sequoia, the bike would perhaps climb and accelerate a bit better - is this true? Is there any other benefit I might gain from upgrading to those wheels?

I am agonizing over just saving the money until I can afford a Roubaix, but I love the incredible comfort of the Sequoia, and I seem to be able to hang with the over 20 mph crowd in the group rides.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

most of these "high end" road racing wheelsets are over hyped. the slight speed increase you will get from them (1mph TOPS) is not worth $725, to me at least.

i see more entry level racers riding expensive wheelsets than i do underneath cat 1/2s.

for the type of riding that it sounds like you are doing (recreational/fun rides) i wouldn't spend more than $300 on a wheelset. if you are wealthy and have nothing else to do with your money, then go ahead and buy the expensive wheels.

if you want to be able to hang in the 20mph group, start training for it. no wheelset is going to elevate you enough to make a big enough difference.

 

[gruppo]

I agree with velomanct. It seems that everyone wants to buy a faster ride by paying big dollars to shave a few gms. But there are lots of other ways to improve your riding/speed that only cost a little time and energy.

Save the $700 and start a fund to buy/build a really great bike eventually as a reward for having developed a good set of cycling skills and reached some personal training milestones.

 

[boudreaux]

I want to upgrade my bike a bit, and it seems that the biggest bang for the buck would be a wheel upgrade. My local dealer has a great sale going on Mavic Ksyrium SSC Elites ($725 the pair).

I assume that with these lighter and more aero wheels then the ones that come stock on the Sequoia, the bike would perhaps climb and accelerate a bit better - is this true? Is there any other benefit I might gain from upgrading to those wheels?

Yeah, Ks have great bling and poser value,but would be a waste on that bike. $725 buys alot of spinach and wheaties,if you want climbing power.

 

[skydive69]

most of these "high end" road racing wheelsets are over hyped. the slight speed increase you will get from them (1mph TOPS) is not worth $725, to me at least.

i see more entry level racers riding expensive wheelsets than i do underneath cat 1/2s.

for the type of riding that it sounds like you are doing (recreational/fun rides) i wouldn't spend more than $300 on a wheelset. if you are wealthy and have nothing else to do with your money, then go ahead and buy the expensive wheels.

if you want to be able to hang in the 20mph group, start training for it. no wheelset is going to elevate you enough to make a big enough difference.

Candidly, if I could get 1 mph out of a wheel change, I would believe that to be a significent advantage. I would have loved to have been two miles farther down the road after my two hour ride this AM!

I already hang with the 20 mph group and seem to be progressing rather rapidly - probably due to my extensive running background. I will be interested to see as many perspectives as possible.

 

[skydive69]

I agree with velomanct. It seems that everyone wants to buy a faster ride by paying big dollars to shave a few gms. But there are lots of other ways to improve your riding/speed that only cost a little time and energy.

Save the $700 and start a fund to buy/build a really great bike eventually as a reward for having developed a good set of cycling skills and reached some personal training milestones.

And that is precisely what I am agonizing over - upgrade, or put the money towards eventual upgrade of a new bike. To me, any upgrade that will make me go faster with the same effort it is well worth it.

I am training very hard, and my main problem is that I can't seem to make myself take all important easy days. I am doing everything it takes to upgrade my abilities, but also want to take advantage of any mechanical help which will enhance my performance. Again, if something (equipment) will give me an extra 1 mph, I want it, and want it badly.

 

[boudreaux]

Candidly, if I could get 1 mph out of a wheel change, I would believe that to be a significent advantage. I would have loved to have been two miles farther down the road after my two hour ride this AM!

I already hang with the 20 mph group and seem to be progressing rather rapidly - probably due to my extensive running background. I will be interested to see as many perspectives as possible.

The OP was right about the $300 wheels. Unless you have money to burn or race, anything beyond open pro rims, ultegra hubs and butted spokes,well built is overkill. Price $200-250 from several sources.

 

[JohnO]

And that is precisely what I am agonizing over - upgrade, or put the money towards eventual upgrade of a new bike. To me, any upgrade that will make me go faster with the same effort it is well worth it.

I am training very hard, and my main problem is that I can't seem to make myself take all important easy days. I am doing everything it takes to upgrade my abilities, but also want to take advantage of any mechanical help which will enhance my performance. Again, if something (equipment) will give me an extra 1 mph, I want it, and want it badly.

The nice thing about a good wheelset is that it can be moved to another bike.

But, $725 for elites - a bit steep. You can get a clean set of Zipp 404 tubulars off of ebay for that sort of jack, that'll get you 2mph. If you want to try out a better set of wheels, but not bust the bank in the process, search ebay for Rolf Vector Pro. I've had a set for two years, they're tough, light, and very aero, every bit the equal of K's, more aero, and cost less. $250-300 is typically what a used set goes for on ebay.

 

[skydive69]

The nice thing about a good wheelset is that it can be moved to another bike.

But, $725 for elites - a bit steep. You can get a clean set of Zipp 404 tubulars off of ebay for that sort of jack, that'll get you 2mph. If you want to try out a better set of wheels, but not bust the bank in the process, search ebay for Rolf Vector Pro. I've had a set for two years, they're tough, light, and very aero, every bit the equal of K's, more aero, and cost less. $250-300 is typically what a used set goes for on ebay.

I love the looks of the zipp 404's. Two questions regarding them:

1) By a clean set, I assume that you mean a used set.

2) My understanding was that Zipp 404's were not a training wheel, but strictly a racing wheel unless you have the bread to replace/repair them - I was told that they don't stand up to heavy road useage.

What is your input?

 

[skydive69]

The OP was right about the $300 wheels. Unless you have money to burn or race, anything beyond open pro rims, ultegra hubs and butted spokes,well built is overkill. Price $200-250 from several sources.

Thanks for your input, and what is seemingly great advice.

 

[boudreaux]

I want to upgrade my bike a bit, and it seems that the biggest bang for the buck would be a wheel upgrade. My local dealer has a great sale going on Mavic Ksyrium SSC Elites ($725 the pair).

LOL...are they ever rippin you off.You can buy them for alot less,and theY have noting on on OPS/ultegras but poseur' and bling points.

 

[velomanct]

i was looking at competitivecyclist.com and their wheelsets. some are $3,000!! i guess i would buy them if i was a millionaire, but that is way overkill. one of the zipp wheelsets had special bearings that eliminate some resistence. get this, it was the equivalent of 1 watt, that's how much faster you would go. so for $3,000, you go 1 watt faster, what a deal!
my typical 2x20 interval workout raises my TT power by 3-5 watts.

 

[velomanct]

LOL...are they ever rippin you off.You can buy them for alot less,and theY have noting on on OPS/ultegras but poseur' and bling points.

the first time i saw the ksyriums a few years ago, i wondered what the big deal was. they are definitely not aero enough to make any noticable difference and the weight is the same as any open pro dura ace hub setup. they add some stickers to it and jack the price up to ~$800.
the same thing with the mavic cosmos. go to the mavic site and look at the description for the cosmos. they talk like this wheelset is something special. cracks me up.

 

[boudreaux]

2) My understanding was that Zipp 404's were not a training wheel, but strictly a racing wheel unless you have the bread to replace/repair them - I was told that they don't stand up to heavy road useage.

What is your input?

It makes me wonder how far anyone recommending 404 tubulars for non racers gets from their bong.

 

[JohnO]

I love the looks of the zipp 404's. Two questions regarding them:

1) By a clean set, I assume that you mean a used set.

2) My understanding was that Zipp 404's were not a training wheel, but strictly a racing wheel unless you have the bread to replace/repair them - I was told that they don't stand up to heavy road useage.

What is your input?

That's used, two to three years old. New, you'd pay $1k for a set from a discount source, $1.3k from a LBS that sells for list. You probably want to avoid Zipp wheels older than around 2002, they had some durability issues with the hubs.

A lot depends on the roads you ride. It isn't so much that they're fragile, just that replacement rims are very expensive. I ride mostly around horse farm country in central KY, where they keep the back roads in very good condition. Don't want a million dollar horse to have a bumpy ride to the track... so rough roads are really not an issue for me. If you're riding on Pothole Bvld, you probably want something that will cost less to fix. No reason you can't ride newer 404's on weekends, providing you keep in mind the replacement costs and try to avoid nasty hits. Of course, that's true of any very expensive wheel - very expensive to repair.

Avoid the clincher 404's. Earlier examples had trouble with the aluminum rim delaminating from the carbon, later ones you pay a weight penalty. Might also look at the 303's - they're a tad bit lighter without the aero rim section, and a bit less expensive.

In any case, Zipp wheels represent the extreme. Remember that cost rises at a geometrically increasing rate to functionality on cycles. In the higher end equipment, a little improvement costs a lot.

I've ridden a borrowed pair of Kysriums, and while they're nice, I personally think they're a bit overrated at the asking price. My old Rolfs are a bit more aero, a bit lighter, and cost less. Be aware that both the K's and the Rolfs are very stiff, harsh riding wheels. With average riding gloves, I found my hands going numb after about 20 miles. I ended up settling on Campy Zonda wheels for everyday riding - a little less stiff, a little easier on the hands.

Better still, if you want to keep up with the crew, work out more. I've seen my average speed on my favorite hilly loop go from 13mph to 18 mph in less than a year. 20mph is my immediate goal.

 

[skydive69]

That's used, two to three years old. New, you'd pay $1k for a set from a discount source, $1.3k from a LBS that sells for list. You probably want to avoid Zipp wheels older than around 2002, they had some durability issues with the hubs.

A lot depends on the roads you ride. It isn't so much that they're fragile, just that replacement rims are very expensive. I ride mostly around horse farm country in central KY, where they keep the back roads in very good condition. Don't want a million dollar horse to have a bumpy ride to the track... so rough roads are really not an issue for me. If you're riding on Pothole Bvld, you probably want something that will cost less to fix. No reason you can't ride newer 404's on weekends, providing you keep in mind the replacement costs and try to avoid nasty hits. Of course, that's true of any very expensive wheel - very expensive to repair.

Avoid the clincher 404's. Earlier examples had trouble with the aluminum rim delaminating from the carbon, later ones you pay a weight penalty. Might also look at the 303's - they're a tad bit lighter without the aero rim section, and a bit less expensive.

In any case, Zipp wheels represent the extreme. Remember that cost rises at a geometrically increasing rate to functionality on cycles. In the higher end equipment, a little improvement costs a lot.

I've ridden a borrowed pair of Kysriums, and while they're nice, I personally think they're a bit overrated at the asking price. My old Rolfs are a bit more aero, a bit lighter, and cost less. Be aware that both the K's and the Rolfs are very stiff, harsh riding wheels. With average riding gloves, I found my hands going numb after about 20 miles. I ended up settling on Campy Zonda wheels for everyday riding - a little less stiff, a little easier on the hands.

Better still, if you want to keep up with the crew, work out more. I've seen my average speed on my favorite hilly loop go from 13mph to 18 mph in less than a year. 20mph is my immediate goal.

Thanks for your input. After reading the reviews on the 404's, they make me particularly nervous at the thought of using them for an everyday wheel. Working out more is not an issue for me. I have always and will always work out hard and frequently.

 

[skydive69]

LOL...are they ever rippin you off.You can buy them for alot less,and theY have noting on on OPS/ultegras but poseur' and bling points.

I see that now after searching about on the internet.

 

[ahimsa]

In my opinion, the major advantage to the Mavic Ksyriums is the durability. The sealed rims and oversized spokes make them fairly bomb-proof. Add to that the smooth-rolling, easily adjusted hubs and the light weight, and they are hard to beat.

Someone suggested the Vector Pros - those are nice, fast wheels, BUT...my experience has been that the super high spoke tensions required makes them hard to true, and in the case of spoke failure at that tension, they tend not to break as much as they EXPLODE. And having to remove tire, tube, and rim strip to true the wheel is worthless to me.

 

[boudreaux]

In my opinion, the major advantage to the Mavic Ksyriums is the durability. The sealed rims and oversized spokes make them fairly bomb-proof. Add to that the smooth-rolling, easily adjusted hubs and the light weight, and they are hard to beat.

He referenced Elites,and even the Ks had had plenty of issues with rims cracking at the spoke holes.

 

[JohnO]

In my opinion, the major advantage to the Mavic Ksyriums is the durability. The sealed rims and oversized spokes make them fairly bomb-proof. Add to that the smooth-rolling, easily adjusted hubs and the light weight, and they are hard to beat.

Someone suggested the Vector Pros - those are nice, fast wheels, BUT...my experience has been that the super high spoke tensions required makes them hard to true, and in the case of spoke failure at that tension, they tend not to break as much as they EXPLODE. And having to remove tire, tube, and rim strip to true the wheel is worthless to me.

Possibly, but in two years of riding, my Vector Pros have never needed truing. Never broken a spoke, either. My only complaint is the harsh ride, but that's to be expected.

With wheels like this, and even the K's, you're almost better off getting a pro to handle truing. I don't mind tackling a simple 32 spoke 3cross wheel, but these are a different matter.