US: Judge finds fault with fixies



Random Data said:
On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 05:21:09 +0000, TimC wrote:

> What's the go, two different almost opposing methods -- which is the
> one that the pros :) do?


Both. Back for braking, forward for pushing the front wheel in. You need
the grip on that wheel, and the back will follow you around. On a dual
suspension bike you can even move your weight back as you come out of a
tight corner to force the tail through and get a bit of a spring out of it
- hardtails don't react in quite the same way.

On road I don't move around anywhere near as much as I do offroad, but
it's still important to get on the bike properly. Watching the behind
rider camera in motorbike races is interesting to get an idea of how much
body position matters. Admittedly those bikes are a lot heavier in
comparison, and have a throttle to upset the balance as well, but the
idea of moving your body around is obvious.

--
Dave Hughes | [email protected]
"First things first, but not necessarily in that order." - The Doctor
FraudLandis may have used the BigT, but if you look at the stage 17 footage of him descending you'll see his cornering was so much superior to just about everyine else, Virenque too was a great descender, and much of it comes from being a good driver. (Virenque was and is a wizz behind a wheel of a race track).

Having the position deosnt help if you dont have the line. Floyd..er FraudL had the line, consistently, as does Salvodelli too....

Correct line, position, relaxed steering and total comittment from confidence makes for fast descents.
 
Resound said:
...snip.... Skip-skidding on a fixie is a means by which the rear wheel is retarded and it certainly slows the bike down. It is therefore a braking mechanism. It's not a good braking mechanism, and I personally think all bikes should have a front brake but to claim that something isn't a brake because that's not *all* it does isn't correct.
courtesy of www.Cyclingnews.com

Fixies outlawed?

By John Stevenson

There's been a bit of hoo-ha in various bike forums around the net in the last few days about a case in Portland, Oregon where a rider was fined for not having a separate brake on her fixed-gear bike. According to bikeportland.org, bike messenger Ayla Holland was ticketed on June 1 and charged with violating Oregon Revised Statute (ORS) 815.280(2)(a) which states:

A bicycle must be equipped with a brake that enables the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement. strong enough to skid tire.

Ms Holland's lawyer Mark Ginsberg attempted to argue that a fixie's transmission constituted a brake. The judge was having none of it, and in his decision said:

"The brake must be a device separate from the musculature of the rider. Take me for instance. I don't have leg muscles as strong as a messenger… how would I stop safely?"

This has led to some rather alarmist talk about the future of fixies. "Will the cops now feel emboldened to go out and ticket everyone on a fixed-gear? Are fixed-gears now essentially illegal? Are fixed-gears truly a public safety hazard?" asks Jonathan Maus in bikeportland.org.

Well, no. The issue here is a badly-written piece of legislation being interpreted by a judge so that it achieves its aims, rather than what the absolute letter of the law says.

A fixed-gear bike with no brakes cannot stop in as short a space as one with a front brake, because only the rear wheel is providing the braking force. As a vehicle on the road, it's therefore clearly less safe.

This is a matter of simple physics. In the third edition of Bicycling Science, David Gordon Wilson demonstrates that the maximum deceleration of a crouched rider on a standard bike (that is, not a recumbent) on a dry road is 0.56g. Try to brake any harder than that and you go over the handlebars, which is the limit condition, as the limit from tyre adhesion of vehicles that don't pitch over (tandems, recumbents and cars) is about 0.8g.

If you brake with only the rear wheel, according to Wilson, the limit is 0.256g, because braking effectively shifts your weight forward, reducing the load on the rear wheel to the point that it skids at that deceleration. Once a tyre is skidding, its braking effectiveness is reduced because you no longer have sticky solid rubber in contact with the road, but a lubricating layer of molten rubber. (Which incidentally demonstrates that the Oregon legislation was written by someone with no clue at all about bikes.)

Therefore, however good a fixie rider is, stopping distance is roughly doubled without a front brake. In practice, it's probably more than that.

In some jurisdictions, better-written laws make this issue moot. In the UK, for example, the law requires a bike to have two independent braking systems. I used to ride a fixie in the winter in the UK, and I knew quite a few fixie riders who dispensed with a rear brake on the grounds that the transmission was a braking system, but I never met anyone daft enough to have just a rear brake.

This judge has clearly decided to ignore the letter of the law in favour of enforcing its obvious intent, that bikes have at least one maximally effective brake. That's the sort of thing judges are handy for: turning idiotically badly-written legislation into rules that make sense in the real world.

All that fixie riders have to do to conform is slap on a front brake; hardly rocket surgery, and a long way from fixies being suddenly illegal. And to fixie riders who are about to reach for the email to defend riding brakeless fixies, I refer you to Cmdr Montgomery Scott: "You canna change the laws of physics!"
 
Resound wrote:

> I like to think I'm a fairly reasonable person. Skip-skidding on a
> fixie is a means by which the rear wheel is retarded and it certainly
> slows the bike down. It is therefore a braking mechanism. It's not a
> good braking mechanism, and I personally think all bikes should have
> a front brake but to claim that something isn't a brake because
> that's not *all* it does isn't correct.


So you agree with the judge's decision but you want to be pedantic?

Theo
 
"Theo Bekkers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Resound wrote:
>
>> I like to think I'm a fairly reasonable person. Skip-skidding on a
>> fixie is a means by which the rear wheel is retarded and it certainly
>> slows the bike down. It is therefore a braking mechanism. It's not a
>> good braking mechanism, and I personally think all bikes should have
>> a front brake but to claim that something isn't a brake because
>> that's not *all* it does isn't correct.

>
> So you agree with the judge's decision but you want to be pedantic?
>
> Theo

Not quite. The judge ruled that bikes need an independant braking system.
Presumably he'd be satisfied by a rear caliper brake although probably not
by a rear coaster brake as that *is* operated by the chain (possibly unless
the rider also had a stick handy). I would be inclined to suggest that any
bike ridden on a public road should have a functioning *front* brake
irrespective of whether it does or does not have another braking mechanism.
I would also be inclined to suggest that despite him agreeing with me in a
very narrowly defined context (fixies should have brakes other than the
drivetrain), his reasoning in coming to that conclusion, his understanding
of what constitutes a brake (whether effective or not), his understanding
what what *would* constitute an effective brake and his decision to utterly
ignore the bounding conditions of the law and uphold the fine were all
dodgy. If the cyclist couldn't rely on the wording of the law to know
whether she was pbeying it or not, what *should* she have been relying on?
 
Resound wrote:
> "Theo Bekkers" wrote


>> So you agree with the judge's decision but you want to be pedantic?


> Not quite. The judge ruled that bikes need an independant braking
> system. Presumably he'd be satisfied by a rear caliper brake although
> probably not by a rear coaster brake as that *is* operated by the
> chain (possibly unless the rider also had a stick handy). I would be
> inclined to suggest that any bike ridden on a public road should have
> a functioning *front* brake irrespective of whether it does or does
> not have another braking mechanism.


I agree re the front brake. Having been brought up on coasters and fixies, I
know that it is much easier to lock up the back wheel with a coaster than
with a fixie. Also rode 'minimalist' bikes in my teens in a smallish country
town, single speed freewheel, no brakes.

Theo

Theo
 
"Theo Bekkers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Resound wrote:
>> "Theo Bekkers" wrote

>
>>> So you agree with the judge's decision but you want to be pedantic?

>
>> Not quite. The judge ruled that bikes need an independant braking
>> system. Presumably he'd be satisfied by a rear caliper brake although
>> probably not by a rear coaster brake as that *is* operated by the
>> chain (possibly unless the rider also had a stick handy). I would be
>> inclined to suggest that any bike ridden on a public road should have
>> a functioning *front* brake irrespective of whether it does or does
>> not have another braking mechanism.

>
> I agree re the front brake. Having been brought up on coasters and fixies,
> I know that it is much easier to lock up the back wheel with a coaster
> than with a fixie. Also rode 'minimalist' bikes in my teens in a smallish
> country town, single speed freewheel, no brakes.
>
> Theo
>

Well in a smallish country town you'd probably get away with it. How many
intersections were there in this town and how many were halfway down a hill?
Still not a good thing, but not a suicidal practice like it would be on a
crowded urban road system. Again, I agree that a coaster brake is a better
brake than a fixie transmission just based on the fact that it's easier to
use and modulate. I didn't say that a fixie transmission is a *good* brake;
it's an exceptionally poor one. But it's still a brake. And it meets the
standards set out by the applicable legislation.
 
Resound wrote:

> Well in a smallish country town you'd probably get away with it. How
> many intersections were there in this town and how many were halfway
> down a hill?


I was young and immortal then. :)

Theo
 
What makes no sense to me is why anyone would _want_ to go without a front brake anyway. I mean, they're useful things. Besides the obvious function of stopping the bike, they're also terribly useful when clipping in - one clips the right foot in, hold the front brake while pushing the bars forward to lift the rear up, so that you can spin the cranks to ten o'clock before starting. Without a front brake, starting a fixed wheel would be a real PITA.

Cheers,

Suzy
 
In aus.bicycle on Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:28:42 +1000
suzyj <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> What makes no sense to me is why anyone would _want_ to go without a
> front brake anyway. I mean, they're useful things. Besides the


Because they think it has much more street cred? A completely minimal
bike?

Zebee
- waiting for someone to decide seats are clearly uncool
 
"cfsmtb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
>>
>>
>> - waiting for someone to decide seats are clearly uncool

>
>
> Trial riders decided on that ages ago.
> http://tinyurl.com/eehvh
>

And I've seen kids riding trials bikes near where I live. They do actually
have saddles but they're extremely minimal things set as low down as
possible and they run what looks like about a 20" gear. Not really good as
transport.
 
How do hand brakes on bikes or foot brakes on cars pass legally if one must
activate them using the musculature or one's body????


"cfsmtb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Only in America? A curly one folks? :confused:
>
> *****
> Judge finds fault with fixies
> http://bikeportland.org/2006/07/28/judge-finds-fault-with-fixies/
> Posted by Jonathan Maus on July 28th, 2006
> Fighting for fixed gears in court
>
>
> Yesterday at the Multnomah County Courthouse the law came down against
> fixed gear bicycles.
>
> On June 1, 2006 Portland bike messenger Ayla Holland was given a ticket
> for allegedly violating Oregon Revised Statute (ORS) 815.280(2)(a) which
> states,
>
> A bicycle must be equipped with a brake that enables the operator
> to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement. strong
> enough to skid tire.
>
> At issue was whether Holland's fixed gear bicycle met this requirement.
> She and her lawyer Mark Ginsberg thought it did, but Officer Barnum of
> the Portland Police Bureau thought otherwise so they brought the matter
> in front of a traffic court Judge.
>
> According to Officer Barnum, he stopped Holland at SW First and
> Jefferson and told her that she was in violation of the law and that
> she must put a front brake on her fixie to avoid a ticket. Holland
> disagreed. She and Ginsberg claim that Oregon statute does not clearly
> define what a brake is and that as long as a bicycle can perform a
> "skid on dry, level clean pavement" it does not need to have a
> separate, traditional braking device.
>
> At the start of the trial it was clear that neither the Judge nor the
> Officer understood just what a fixed-gear bicycle was. To help them
> visualize, Ginsberg likened a fixie to a child's Big Wheel. Once
> everyone was clear and the cop was finished with his opening testimony,
> Ginsberg began his cross-examination:
>
> Ginsberg (to Officer Barnum):
>
> "When you approached the rider did she stop?"
>
> Officer Barnum:
>
> "Yes."
>
> Ginsberg:
>
> "How'd she stop the bike?"
>
> Officer Barnum:
>
> "I don't know."
>
> Ginsberg:
>
> "The gear itself stopped the bike."
>
> Officer Barnum:
>
> "But the gear is not a brake."
>
> From the outset, the judge seemed to agree with the cop and it was up
> to Ginsberg to change his mind. The trial began to hinge on the
> definition of brake. Ginsberg continued to ask questions of the cop.
>
> Ginsberg:
>
> "What is a brake?"
>
> Officer Barnum:
>
> "A lever, a caliper or a coaster brake hub."
>
> Ginsberg:
>
> "Can you show the court where in the vehicle code a brake is
> defined as such?"
>
> Officer Barnum:
>
> "No."
>
> Ginsberg:
>
> "Did you at any time during the traffic stop ask my client if she
> could skid (thus meeting the performance requirement of the statute)?"
>
> Officer Barnum:
>
> "No."
>
> At this point the judge seemed increasingly exasperated with Ginsberg's
> direction and pointed out that "brake" was a commonly accepted term. To
> end this line of questioning, Ginsberg offered to demonstrate to the
> court that Holland could easily bring her fixed-gear bike to a skid on
> dry, level pavement. The judge declined his offer.
>
> Now it was time for Officer Barnum to ask questions. He asked Holland,
>
> "What would you do if your chain broke?"
>
> Fighting for fixed gears in court
>
> Holland:
>
> "I would use my feet."
>
> Officer Barnum:
>
> "What if your leg muscles had a spasm?"
>
> Holland:
>
> "I'm not sure.these are emergency situations."
>
> Ginsberg interjected with a question for Holland:
>
> "Did any of these situations happen on the day you were stopped?"
>
> Holland:
>
> "No."
>
> Now it was time for Officer Barnum to submit his closing testimony. He
> continued to argue that nowhere in the statute does it say gears can be
> utilized as brakes (it doesn't say they can't either). He also said that
> "motorists and the public deserve to have these bikes be properly
> equipped," and that a "skid is not as good or safe as a stop." "The
> requirement," he said, "has not been met."
>
> Now it was Ginsberg's turn. He said,
>
> "The state is overreaching in seeking to define a brake as a lever
> and a caliper. The question remains; is the fixed gear the brake? The
> statutes are clear that the answer is yes."
>
> To solidify his point, he took out a huge Webster's dictionary and
> opened it to the word "brake." The definition stated that a brake is a
> "device to arrest the motion of a vehicle." It did not stipulate
> anything about a distinct lever or caliper. In his last few comments he
> proclaimed that the current statute is not well-written and that it is
> "frightening to require only a front brake."
>
> With both sides at rest, it was time for the Judge's final opinion. His
> contention was that the main source of braking power on a fixed gear are
> the muscles of the rider, not the gear itself. To this end, he
> questioned how messengers-whom he's seen riding "much too fast"-could
> stop safely.
>
> In the Judge's opinion, gearing itself and/or leg muscles are not a
> sufficient source of braking power. He said,
>
> "The brake must be a device separate from the musclulature of the
> rider. Take me for instance. I don't have leg muscles as strong as a
> messenger.how would I stop safely?"
>
> He then turned directly to Ginsberg and said,
>
> "If your client had a stick she could rub against her tire, you'd
> have a case. I don't believe the defense has convinced me to broaden
> the definition of a brake. I find the defendant guilty."
>
> So now Holland has 30 days to either attach a hand brake to her bike
> and pay a $73 fine, or appeal the decision. In talking with her outside
> the courtroom it seemed like she did not think the Judge's opinion was
> fair and I wouldn't be surprised if she and Ginsberg decide to continue
> the fight.
>
> This decision by the Judge raises some concerns and questions. Will the
> cops now feel emboldened to go out and ticket everyone on a fixed-gear?
> Are fixed-gears now essentially illegal? Are fixed-gears truly a public
> safety hazard?
>
> Fixed gears have become a huge trend across the country and with
> hundreds if not thousands of them in Portland, I don't think we've
> heard the end of this issue.
>
>
> --
> cfsmtb
>