us motorists are gas sucking whining energy pigs



Originally posted by Reuben Hick
"Which the US Interstate and rail systems are remarkably
efficient compared to what was available before. This
"gridlock" which you have contempt for, is also used to
ferry the goods and services you consume. Ever try to
deliver refrigerated produce on a bicycle?"

I don't think any of us are suggesting that; I don't deny that motor vehicles are necessary for certain aspects of our infrastructure. What we're suggesting is those who commute less than 20 miles alone in their gas-guzzling SUVs get out and try riding.

"> If people would get off their fat asses and commute
> by bike...

Which is the mark of a backwards turd world country. Ever
hear of the rickshaw?"
Mmmm. Taste the racism...

"Don't you know that a bicycle is highly inefficient? The
cost per mile of a bicycle (when you consider the cost of
fuel - Food vs Petroleum) is much higher."

That's got to be the weakest argument against bike transport I've heard. Even if we weren't bicycling we'd still be eating and spending money on our food; the difference is that bicyclists put the carbs to good work, while most Americans just let carbs expand their wastlines while they sit in traffic.

"I can load-up my
motorcycle with 80 lbs of cargo and travel 200 miles on $6
worth of fuel. I will get to my destination in three
hours. How cheaply can you do that on your bicycle? How
many days will it take? Will you sleep on the side of the
road or spend money on lodging? Do you value your time
spent? How cheaply can someone who is not as phyically fit
as you do it?"

I've never heard a bicycle tourist say they choose to travel by bicycle because it's efficient; I think we do it for other reasons. Correct me if I'm wrong.

"Or will you, in your infinite wisdom, decide by fiat who is
worthy enough to travel by motor vehicle and who is deemed
unworthy and is forced to commute by foot or pedal? [/B]
"

Hey man, I think you have it backwards. To me, riding a bike to work is a privelege.

"You liberals need to get your stories straight."
Same goes for "you conservatives."

Ride On,
Jeremy "this is what happens when your parents buy you a bicycle instead of a car" Till
 
Matt O'Toole wrote:

> ... South of the border, huge SUVs are de rigeur for those
> who can afford them. (Most big, new SUVs stolen in
> southern CA wind up in Mexico.) Bad roads are an issue,
> but it's really all about status. Bigshots drive big
> vehicles, the bigger the better. Same thing in the Middle
> East, and it isn't all because of cheap gas.

Wouldn't the larger SUV's be easier targets to hit
with RPG's?

--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)
 
Tom Sherman wrote:

> Matt O'Toole wrote:

>> South of the border, huge SUVs are de rigeur for those
>> who can afford them. (Most big, new SUVs stolen in
>> southern CA wind up in Mexico.) Bad roads are an issue,
>> but it's really all about status. Bigshots drive big
>> vehicles, the bigger the better. Same thing in the Middle
>> East, and it isn't all because of cheap gas.

> Wouldn't the larger SUV's be easier targets to hit
> with RPG's?

Yeah, but they can be blinged-out with more armor too...
Bigshotz gotz big enemies, know wha' um sayin'?

Matt O.
 
"g.daniels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> O'peck rattles the per barrel sowrd!! and SUV people, and
> where's the breakdown on environmentalists, Reps, Dems,
> real estate and insurance salesmen and lawyers for SUV
> ownership, AND multiple SUV ownership?

Why all the focus on SUV's. Aren't pick-ups, sports cars,
and old cars just as bad? In fact when it comes to
pollution, old cars are the worst of all. But they just
don't have the class warfare element that SUV's do ... and
anyways...how do you think all those college students and
dread-headed protesters get to their parties?
 
Kyle.B.H wrote:

> Why all the focus on SUV's. Aren't pick-ups, sports cars,
> and old cars just as bad? In fact when it comes to
> pollution, old cars are the worst of all.

Not really. SUVs are, for one, much bigger than they need to
be, and two, not required to meet the same pollution
standards that cars are. A new Navigator probably pollutes
less than a '74 Cutlass, but more than an '84 Civic.
Technology matters, but size matters too.

Old cars aren't a big problem anymore, because there aren't
enough of them left to affect air quality
disproportionately. If we cracked down on all the old cars,
we wouldn't help things much. In fact, we *would* see a
bigger improvement if we could get most SUV drivers into
smaller, more efficient, cleaner vehicles.

Sports cars are governed by the same rules as other cars
(as opposed to trucks), so they're just as clean. The last
Corvette I drove got well over 30mpg on the highway. My
brother's Miata does much better than that. A 6 cylinder
BMW 3 Series coupe gets about 34mpg. What SUV even comes
close to that?

> But they just don't have the class warfare element that
> SUV's do ...

This is true. Unfortunately, a lot of old-school
environmental activism is class warfare in disguise, which
puts people off the legitimate efforts. Fortunately, that's
changing. Edward Abbey is out, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is in.

> and anyways...how do you think all those college students
> and dread-headed protesters get to their parties?

Belching VW buses! I loved that Honda Insight ad featuring
the VW bus.

Matt O.
 
"Andrew Webster" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote
> in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > << and the euro's pay $4 a gallon
> >
> > try $5-$6 >><BR><BR>
> >
> > When I was in the UK in October, I paid 90p per
> > liter...$1.80 per Pound exchange.
>
> That would make it $7.36 per gallon (imperial).

It would, but I was using real figures and its $5.60 per
3.8 litres (lowest cost self service, UK). Slightly higher
for diesel.
 
"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Matt-<< Well, unfortunately, SUVs are the fastest growing
> market segment
in the
> UK, and probably other parts of Europe too. What price,
> fashion? >><BR><BR>
>
> When in UK and Scotland,

uh oh (!!)

> I didn't see a lot. A few Toyota 4 hole trucks,
> Fourunners, some Chrysler PT Criuisers, LOTS of little econo-
> boxes using
small
> diesels..LOTS of small trucks with the same.

Indeed, but its a large increase in the market. OTOH not
really SUVs. Not many things larger than a Range Rover.
 
W K wrote:

> "Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:20040406094136.17770.00000589@mb-
> m21.aol.com...

>> Matt-<< Well, unfortunately, SUVs are the fastest growing
>> market segment in the UK, and probably other parts of
>> Europe too. What price, fashion?
>> >><BR><BR>
>>
>> When in UK and Scotland,
>
> uh oh (!!)
>
>> I didn't see a lot. A few Toyota 4 hole trucks,
>> Fourunners, some Chrysler PT Criuisers, LOTS of little
>> econo-boxes using small diesels..LOTS of small trucks
>> with the same.
>
> Indeed, but its a large increase in the market. OTOH not
> really SUVs. Not many things larger than a Range Rover.

Jeep is putting a diesel in the Liberty for next year. I
think they're aiming for the Euro market as much as anything
else. Great light-duty tow vehicle, BTW.

I know Chrysler minivans are available with diesels over
there (30mpg!), and I think PT Cruisers are too.

Matt O.
 
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 17:43:12 GMT, carlfogel
<[email protected]> may have said:

>Bestest Handsan wrote:
> > "carlfogel" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > message news:CUjb-
> > c.23.usenetserver.comnews:[email protected]
> > enetserver.com...
> > > G.Daniels wrote:
> > > > end of message
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Gene,
> > >
> > > Us bicyclists are whiny, snobbish parasites.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Carl Fogel
> > Wow! I guess that makes me a gas sucking whiny,
> > snobbish parasitic bike pedaling energy pig. I put in
> > 24 miles a day in the truck and 30+ miles a day (5 days
> > a week) on the bike.
>
>Dear Bester,
>
>Add a motorcycle to your fleet and join me on the
>dark side!

Most peculiar thing spotted in the past two weeks: A
motorcycle towing a bike trailer with three mtbs on it.
There was only one person on the motorcycle. (It was one of
the 6 cylinder Gold Wings.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:24:27 GMT, Werehatrack
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Most peculiar thing spotted in the past two weeks: A
>motorcycle towing a bike trailer with three mtbs on it.
>There was only one person on the motorcycle. (It was one of
>the 6 cylinder Gold Wings.)

That reminds me: Anybody know of a product or design for
homemade tow-bar/hitch/dolly/whatever that is light/small
and easy to carry on a bicycle? I was thinking that if I saw
a discarded bike while I was out riding, I could hook it up
and go, but not if it meant dragging a big empty trailer
around all the time.
--
Rick Onanian
 
Originally posted by Rick Onanian
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:24:27 GMT, Werehatrack
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Most peculiar thing spotted in the past two weeks: A
>motorcycle towing a bike trailer with three mtbs on it.
>There was only one person on the motorcycle. (It was one of
>the 6 cylinder Gold Wings.)

That reminds me: Anybody know of a product or design for
homemade tow-bar/hitch/dolly/whatever that is light/small
and easy to carry on a bicycle? I was thinking that if I saw
a discarded bike while I was out riding, I could hook it up
and go, but not if it meant dragging a big empty trailer
around all the time.
--
Rick Onanian

Dear Rick,

Here's what you're looking for:

http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/1556/

Or at least so I suppose. See a lot of "discarded"
bicycles, do we?

Carl Fogel
 
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:23:29 GMT, carlfogel
<[email protected]> may have said:

>Rick Onanian wrote:
> > On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:24:27 GMT, Werehatrack
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >Most peculiar thing spotted in the past two weeks: A
> > >motorcycle towing a bike trailer with three mtbs on
> > >it. There was only one person on the motorcycle. (It
> > >was one of the 6 cylinder Gold Wings.)
> > That reminds me: Anybody know of a product or design
> > for homemade tow- bar/hitch/dolly/whatever that is
> > light/small and easy to carry on a bicycle? I was
> > thinking that if I saw a discarded bike while I was out
> > riding, I could hook it up and go, but not if it meant
> > dragging a big empty trailer around all the time.
> > --
> > Rick Onanian
>
>
>
>Dear Rick,
>
>Here's what you're looking for:
>
>http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/1556/
>
>Or at least so I suppose. See a lot of "discarded"
>bicycles, do we?

Surprisingly, at certain universities in this general area,
there really is a substantial population of abandoned bikes
every June. There's usually a good reason; most of them tend
to be bikes that aren't worth the trouble of picking them up
and hauling them off.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:28:50 GMT, "Andre" <[email protected]>
may have said:

>Although obviously a troll, I would have to agree. The bulk
>of fossil fuels are expended in a ridiculous gridlock
>across the continent. If people would get off their fat
>asses and commute by bike, then the hapless US troops could
>be pulled out of harm's way in Iraq. Don't flame me for
>this. You know it's true.

If more US residents lived within practical all-weather bike
commuting distance of their jobs, that would probably save
enough gas to make the difference all by itself.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
carl's humour is contagious.

in the 1950's, the oil industry (and that's what THEY call
it)wrote an analysis stating that all oil fields were
discovered in the sense that most of the available oil field
ever to be discovered had at that time been discovered.

bike commuting reveals all hear.Watching reflexless fat
women bearing down the road in 3 tons of empty space every
day from hubnut level brings one to slightly understand the
madness of something like Kazinski's head.
 
"Reuben Hick" <[email protected]> wrote:

> It bothers you that a free people can have choices.

It is the mark of the beast: the socialist.

> Don't you know that a bicycle is highly inefficient? The
> cost per mile of a bicycle (when you consider the cost of
> fuel - Food vs Petroleum) is much higher. I can load-up my
> motorcycle with 80 lbs of cargo and travel 200 miles on $6
> worth of fuel. I will get to my destination in three
> hours. How cheaply can you do that on your bicycle? How
> many days will it take? Will you sleep on the side of the
> road or spend money on lodging? Do you value your time
> spent? How cheaply can someone who is not as phyically fit
> as you do it?

I think the thrust of your point is true. There are a
host of reasons reasons aside from basic "efficiency"
that many folks choose motor vehicles over bicycles.
Those who cast off the additional concerns of others are
dismissing these preferences to simply justify their own
ideology and consequent removal of freedom for others
(the socialist way).

As far as "efficiency" goes, people do take time into
account. I suspect many folks believe they can't afford in
_time_, the cost of averaging 12 mph rather than 45 mph or
so. This is just one example of "other concerns." How
"efficient" is the bike in the cost of time? For some
commute senarios, the bike may be able to compete very
well, in others, not so good. Many folks also don't want to
mix it up with autos while riding a bike. I could not bring
myself to say that is wrong. And even if I did disagree I
could not bring myself to legislate the removal of their
freedom of choice.
 
[email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote:

> So many, like the previous ranter, see the US' way of doin
> things, like mass consumption of pertroleum, as the way
> the world ought to be.

The standard of living (quality of life) has improved
dramatically for people of all social classes (in any
particular society, and the sharpest improvement is mostly
for the lower classes) since the harnessing of various forms
of natural energy. This is absolutely inarguable. The
question is not whether using energy is a plus, it most
certainly is, but if it can be used more effectively.

> Instead of genuine conservation starting with NOT buying
> large, inefficient vehicles.

Please explain how a joule of energy saved in the gas tank
results in a joule of energy saved in the aggregate
economy, all other things equal. You can't, because it
doesn't. And after all, that is the real goal of so-called
"energy conservation": to reduce energy consumption in the
aggregate economy.

Folks should reduce the energy consumed in their gas tanks
because it would make them richer, not because it saves
energy in the aggregate economy. "Gas tank" energy savings
do not result in energy savings in the aggregate economy,
all other things equal.

> NO OTHER place in the world has these giants, like
> Suburbans, Excursions, Expeditions, etc...

What is your point?
 
[email protected] (Carl Fogel) wrote:

> This is why OPEC could not set oil prices as it pleased
> for long. Rising prices encouraged long-term investment in
> fields beyond OPEC's control and the resumption of pumping
> from previously idled fields.

Exactly. And high prices too would increase investment
in other technologies such as tar sand conversion and
coal conversion to liquid fuel. The US sits on huge
reserves of coal.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (gwhite) wrote:

> [email protected] (Carl Fogel) wrote:
>
> > This is why OPEC could not set oil prices as it pleased
> > for long. Rising prices encouraged long-term investment
> > in fields beyond OPEC's control and the resumption of
> > pumping from previously idled fields.
>
> Exactly. And high prices too would increase investment in
> other technologies such as tar sand conversion and coal
> conversion to liquid fuel. The US sits on huge reserves
> of coal.

IIRC.. some 60 years ago the Germans did a fairly good
job of this.

Maybe at 4 - 5 bucks a gallon this could become feasible.

HAND

--
³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution
 

Similar threads