US Postal after Lance then who will lead???

[Nick Burns]

"Take back"? What does that mean?

"Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > Postal contract is up in 2004..end of season........I bet they Do not
> reup!
> > So that will be the end of it.
>
> Correct! Too bad 7-11 is in Indy racing, or they could take back the team.

 

[Kyle Legate]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> That depends on how you define American. Only 9 out of 22 riders are from the US.
>
>
> If there is no replacement for USPS when the leave the scene, there will unquestionably be much
> less of an opportunity for American riders to race in Europe.
>
Not true. USPS has been in the habit lately of picking up internationally-recognised talent, at the
expense of providing american opportunity. Besides, where's the Division I Australian team that
provided the open door for all of the Aussies currently racing in Europe? The factor that reduces
the opportunity for american racers to make it in Europe is the american racing scene. The pro
racing scene in the US is rich enough that american riders don't have the motivation to move to
Europe. The Aussies, on the other hand, don't have the depth of pro racing events to keep them
satisfied, so they head to where the grass is greener.

 

[Khoomei]

Do you really think USPS can continue to afford a team after all the money they spent on that
anthrax scare?

On 30 May 2003 18:09:38 -0700, [email protected] (Heinz Getzler) wrote:

>US Postal after Lance then who will lead??? A big question for US Postal and US Pro racing is who
>succeeed Lance?? Now it's still a ways off, but US Postal needs to start considering now.......US
>postal could end up like Banesto with no riders able to contend a major tour. Now they have Roberto
>Heras or Manuel Beltran.....But they will be a little old when Lance retires..
>
>One of the problems with US Postal is that it has this Lance cult. Almost everything revolves
>around Lance, expcept for the fall season. After late August Lance goes back to the US and maybe
>the worlds. It's really too bad that most teams do not have junior teams any more. Banesto and
>Renault had a really big farming team structure and this is what made them great.

 

[Us]

full sail productions willhave the last word

Khoomei wrote:
> Do you really think USPS can continue to afford a team after all the money they spent on that
> anthrax scare?
>
> On 30 May 2003 18:09:38 -0700, [email protected] (Heinz Getzler) wrote:
>
>
>>US Postal after Lance then who will lead??? A big question for US Postal and US Pro racing is who
>>succeeed Lance?? Now it's still a ways off, but US Postal needs to start considering now.......US
>>postal could end up like Banesto with no riders able to contend a major tour. Now they have
>>Roberto Heras or Manuel Beltran.....But they will be a little old when Lance retires..
>>
>>One of the problems with US Postal is that it has this Lance cult. Almost everything revolves
>>around Lance, expcept for the fall season. After late August Lance goes back to the US and maybe
>>the worlds. It's really too bad that most teams do not have junior teams any more. Banesto and
>>Renault had a really big farming team structure and this is what made them great.

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
> >
> > "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > That depends on how you define American. Only 9 out of 22 riders are
> from
> > > the US.
> >
> >
> > If there is no replacement for USPS when the leave the scene, there will unquestionably be much
> > less of an opportunity for American riders to
race
> in
> > Europe.
>
> Much less? In this age, as opposed to the LeMond and even Armstrong
> (early 1990s) age, there is much more opportunity for quality US riders
to
> race on Europro teams. That is not USPS dependent. The issue here, IMO, isn't so much opportunity
> as the desire to suffer far more on the bike
than
> domestic racing requires as well as dealing with living the better part of the year in a different
> culture.

You stated that USPS has 9 American riders.

Does any European based team have more than 1 American rider?

 

[Steve@Printemp.]

On 6/1/03 9:49 PM, in article [email protected], "Kurgan Gringioni"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> That depends on how you define American. Only 9 out of 22 riders are
>> from
>>>> the US.
>>>
>>>
>>> If there is no replacement for USPS when the leave the scene, there will unquestionably be much
>>> less of an opportunity for American riders to
> race
>> in
>>> Europe.
>>
>> Much less? In this age, as opposed to the LeMond and even Armstrong
>> (early 1990s) age, there is much more opportunity for quality US riders
> to
>> race on Europro teams. That is not USPS dependent. The issue here, IMO, isn't so much opportunity
>> as the desire to suffer far more on the bike
> than
>> domestic racing requires as well as dealing with living the better part of the year in a
>> different culture.
>
>
> You stated that USPS has 9 American riders.
>
> Does any European based team have more than 1 American rider?
>
>
Very stupid.................Parrot Boy

If USPS did not employ them the EuroPro teams WILL You think they would be jobless if USPS was
not a team??

How many of them were on a EuroPro team before USPS was around??

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:BB002E82.43129%[email protected]...
> On 6/1/03 9:49 PM, in article
> >
> Very stupid.................Parrot Boy

really.

> If USPS did not employ them the EuroPro teams WILL You think they would be jobless if USPS was not
> a team??
>
> How many of them were on a EuroPro team before USPS was around??

LANCE - depends on how you look at it - Motorola, then Cofidis (never rode a single race for them),
then USPS. Michael Barry (Canada) - no - Saturn to USPS. Vandevelde - no - US National to USPS.
Tony Cruz - no - whatever team he was on when winning US crit nats to USPS George Hincapie - no -
GS Mengoni? to USPS Damon Kluck - no - Saturn to USPS Kenny Labbe - no - letter carrying to USPS
Floyd Landis - no - Mercury to USPS Robbie Ventura - no - domestic racer David Zabriskie - no -
Nutra Fig to USPS

None of these riders raced on a European team before USPS with the exception of LANCE, but he
started on Motorola which is analogous to USPS.

The reason for this is USPS does a domestic schedule as well as the European schedule. They can
scout domestic talent up close.

European teams will rarely pick up a North American rider based on North American results. Who can
blame them? They aren't familiar with the races here and can't make informed decisions.

The same logic applies to local riders wanting to make the jump to the salary-drawing national
level. A domestic team manager needs to see a rider doing well against real competition with his own
eyes before he will hire him. Winners of local races who think that will get a salary-paying
position are dreaming unless they have some other connection to get them in.

If USPS leaves the scene and there is no replacement, the biggest platform for making the jump from
North America to Europe will have been removed.

 

[Sam]

I just hope USPS keeps its commitment to the U23 program. That is a great program that gives the
developing riders a chance to show their stuff and learn Euro racing.

"Raymond Crew" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I think USPS will pull out 100%. Berry Floor may stay around as a second name sponsor or may not.
> It has happen to with sponsors from many great teams before, Fiat comes to mind, and will happen
> again. Some day
Telekom,
> ONCE, Bonjour and all the rest will not be sponsoring teams. Contrary to the feelings of many, the
> end of a USPS team will not mean the Sun will go out, racing in the EU will no longer have
> Americans involved or the road racing scene will be any less than it is now.

 

[Us]

us wrote:

Tailwind productions will have the last word

duh sometimes I just get SO confused.

 

[Us]

ummm Robewrto Heras I believe uh Kelme?

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BB002E82.43129%[email protected]...
>
>>On 6/1/03 9:49 PM, in article
>>
>>Very stupid.................Parrot Boy
>
>
>
> really.
>
>
>
>>If USPS did not employ them the EuroPro teams WILL You think they would be jobless if USPS was not
>>a team??
>>
>>How many of them were on a EuroPro team before USPS was around??
>
>
>
>
> LANCE - depends on how you look at it - Motorola, then Cofidis (never rode a single race for
> them), then USPS. Michael Barry (Canada) - no - Saturn to USPS. Vandevelde - no - US National to
> USPS. Tony Cruz - no - whatever team he was on when winning US crit nats to USPS George Hincapie -
> no - GS Mengoni? to USPS Damon Kluck - no - Saturn to USPS Kenny Labbe - no - letter carrying to
> USPS Floyd Landis - no - Mercury to USPS Robbie Ventura - no - domestic racer David Zabriskie - no
> - Nutra Fig to USPS
>
>
> None of these riders raced on a European team before USPS with the exception of LANCE, but he
> started on Motorola which is analogous to USPS.
>
> The reason for this is USPS does a domestic schedule as well as the European schedule. They can
> scout domestic talent up close.
>
> European teams will rarely pick up a North American rider based on North American results. Who can
> blame them? They aren't familiar with the races here and can't make informed decisions.
>
> The same logic applies to local riders wanting to make the jump to the salary-drawing national
> level. A domestic team manager needs to see a rider doing well against real competition with his
> own eyes before he will hire him. Winners of local races who think that will get a salary-paying
> position are dreaming unless they have some other connection to get them in.
>
> If USPS leaves the scene and there is no replacement, the biggest platform for making the jump
> from North America to Europe will have been removed.

 

[Chris II]

The thread was about north americian riders(heras is spainish)

us <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> ummm Robewrto Heras I believe uh Kelme?
>
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BB002E82.43129%[email protected]...
>>
>>>On 6/1/03 9:49 PM, in article
>>>
>>>Very stupid.................Parrot Boy
>>
>>
>>
>> really.
>>
>>
>>
>>>If USPS did not employ them the EuroPro teams WILL You think they would be jobless if USPS was
>>>not a team??
>>>
>>>How many of them were on a EuroPro team before USPS was around??
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> LANCE - depends on how you look at it - Motorola, then Cofidis (never rode a single race for
>> them), then USPS. Michael Barry (Canada) - no - Saturn to USPS. Vandevelde - no - US National to
>> USPS. Tony Cruz - no - whatever team he was on when winning US crit nats to USPS George Hincapie
>> - no - GS Mengoni? to USPS Damon Kluck - no - Saturn to USPS Kenny Labbe - no - letter carrying
>> to USPS Floyd Landis - no - Mercury to USPS Robbie Ventura - no - domestic racer David Zabriskie
>> - no - Nutra Fig to USPS
>>
>>
>> None of these riders raced on a European team before USPS with the exception of LANCE, but he
>> started on Motorola which is analogous to USPS.
>>
>> The reason for this is USPS does a domestic schedule as well as the European schedule. They can
>> scout domestic talent up close.
>>
>> European teams will rarely pick up a North American rider based on North American results. Who
>> can blame them? They aren't familiar with the races here and can't make informed decisions.
>>
>> The same logic applies to local riders wanting to make the jump to the salary-drawing national
>> level. A domestic team manager needs to see a rider doing well against real competition with his
>> own eyes before he will hire him. Winners of local races who think that will get a salary-paying
>> position are dreaming unless they have some other connection to get them in.
>>
>> If USPS leaves the scene and there is no replacement, the biggest platform for making the jump
>> from North America to Europe will have been removed.
>>
>

 

[Steven L. Sheff]

Hincapie was on Motorola. Jonathan Vaughters ... Santa Clara to Colorado Cyclist to USPS to Credit
Agricole Bobby Julich ... Chevy-LA Sheriff to Motorola to Cofidis to Telekom Kevin Livingston ...
Motorola to Cofidis to USPS to Telekom

in article [email protected], us at [email protected] wrote on
06/02/2003 05:21 PM:

> ummm Robewrto Heras I believe uh Kelme?
>
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BB002E82.43129%[email protected]...
>>
>>> On 6/1/03 9:49 PM, in article
>>>
>>> Very stupid.................Parrot Boy
>>
>>
>>
>> really.
>>
>>
>>
>>> If USPS did not employ them the EuroPro teams WILL You think they would be jobless if USPS was
>>> not a team??
>>>
>>> How many of them were on a EuroPro team before USPS was around??
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> LANCE - depends on how you look at it - Motorola, then Cofidis (never rode a single race for
>> them), then USPS. Michael Barry (Canada) - no - Saturn to USPS. Vandevelde - no - US National to
>> USPS. Tony Cruz - no - whatever team he was on when winning US crit nats to USPS George Hincapie
>> - no - GS Mengoni? to USPS Damon Kluck - no - Saturn to USPS Kenny Labbe - no - letter carrying
>> to USPS Floyd Landis - no - Mercury to USPS Robbie Ventura - no - domestic racer David Zabriskie
>> - no - Nutra Fig to USPS
>>
>>
>> None of these riders raced on a European team before USPS with the exception of LANCE, but he
>> started on Motorola which is analogous to USPS.
>>
>> The reason for this is USPS does a domestic schedule as well as the European schedule. They can
>> scout domestic talent up close.
>>
>> European teams will rarely pick up a North American rider based on North American results. Who
>> can blame them? They aren't familiar with the races here and can't make informed decisions.
>>
>> The same logic applies to local riders wanting to make the jump to the salary-drawing national
>> level. A domestic team manager needs to see a rider doing well against real competition with his
>> own eyes before he will hire him. Winners of local races who think that will get a salary-paying
>> position are dreaming unless they have some other connection to get them in.
>>
>> If USPS leaves the scene and there is no replacement, the biggest platform for making the jump
>> from North America to Europe will have been removed.
>>
>

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BB0189D1.3AFFB%[email protected]...
>
>
> Hincapie was on Motorola. Jonathan Vaughters ... Santa Clara to Colorado Cyclist to USPS to Credit
> Agricole Bobby Julich ... Chevy-LA Sheriff to Motorola to Cofidis to Telekom Kevin Livingston ...
> Motorola to Cofidis to USPS to Telekom

Motorola is analogous to USPS.

My point is that the main platform to transition from North American to European racing will be gone
if USPS leaves and a replacement sponsor is not found.

Vaughters is one of the few that did not use that platform for his first season in Europe (the Santa
Clara reference).

The riders in my post are the current North American USPS riders.

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:BB0189D1.3AFFB%[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > Hincapie was on Motorola. Jonathan Vaughters ... Santa Clara to Colorado Cyclist to USPS to
> > Credit Agricole Bobby Julich ... Chevy-LA Sheriff to Motorola to Cofidis to Telekom Kevin
> > Livingston ... Motorola to Cofidis to USPS to Telekom
>
>
>
> Motorola is analogous to USPS.
>
> My point is that the main platform to transition from North American to European racing will be
> gone if USPS leaves and a replacement sponsor is not found.
>
> Vaughters is one of the few that did not use that platform for his first season in Europe (the
> Santa Clara reference).
>
> The riders in my post are the current North American USPS riders.
>
>

I'm forgetting, how did Chris Horner get over to FdJ from America? Wasn't he on Nutrifig?

--
tanx, Howard

Read. Think. Type. Send.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, k?

For some people, quantity IS quality...

 

[Steven L. Sheff]

Marty Jemison ... Word Perfect to Novell to USPS.

in article [email protected], Kurgan Gringioni at
[email protected] wrote on 06/02/2003 11:25 PM:

>
> "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:BB0189D1.3AFFB%[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> Hincapie was on Motorola. Jonathan Vaughters ... Santa Clara to Colorado Cyclist to USPS to
>> Credit Agricole Bobby Julich ... Chevy-LA Sheriff to Motorola to Cofidis to Telekom Kevin
>> Livingston ... Motorola to Cofidis to USPS to Telekom
>
>
>
> Motorola is analogous to USPS.
>
> My point is that the main platform to transition from North American to European racing will be
> gone if USPS leaves and a replacement sponsor is not found.
>
> Vaughters is one of the few that did not use that platform for his first season in Europe (the
> Santa Clara reference).
>
> The riders in my post are the current North American USPS riders.

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:BB0189D1.3AFFB%[email protected]...
> > >
> > >
> > > Hincapie was on Motorola. Jonathan Vaughters ... Santa Clara to Colorado Cyclist to USPS to
Credit
> > > Agricole Bobby Julich ... Chevy-LA Sheriff to Motorola to Cofidis to Telekom Kevin Livingston
> > > ... Motorola to Cofidis to USPS to Telekom
> >
> >
> >
> > Motorola is analogous to USPS.
> >
> > My point is that the main platform to transition from North American to European racing will be
> > gone if USPS leaves and a replacement sponsor is
not
> > found.
> >
> > Vaughters is one of the few that did not use that platform for his first season in Europe (the
> > Santa Clara reference).
> >
> > The riders in my post are the current North American USPS riders.
> >
> >
>
> I'm forgetting, how did Chris Horner get over to FdJ from America? Wasn't
he on Nutrifig?

That is correct. He's one of the few that didn't use the domestic-based Euro team as a platform.

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BB01F0F5.3B206%[email protected]...
>
>
>
> Marty Jemison ... Word Perfect to Novell to USPS.

There's also Rodriguez and McRae who went to Mapei.

They're still the exception to the rule. Who here (besides you know who) thinks that just as many
North American riders can segue to jobs in European squads without a US-licensed Euro team?

 

[Steve@Printemp.]

On 6/1/03 11:19 PM, in article x%[email protected], "Kurgan Gringioni"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BB002E82.43129%[email protected]...
>> On 6/1/03 9:49 PM, in article
>>>
>> Very stupid.................Parrot Boy
>
>
> really.
>
>
>> If USPS did not employ them the EuroPro teams WILL You think they would be jobless if USPS was
>> not a team??
>>
>> How many of them were on a EuroPro team before USPS was around??
>
>
>
> LANCE - depends on how you look at it - Motorola, then Cofidis (never rode a single race for
> them), then USPS. Michael Barry (Canada) - no - Saturn to USPS. Vandevelde - no - US National to
> USPS. Tony Cruz - no - whatever team he was on when winning US crit nats to USPS George Hincapie -
> no - GS Mengoni? to USPS Damon Kluck - no - Saturn to USPS Kenny Labbe - no - letter carrying to
> USPS Floyd Landis - no - Mercury to USPS Robbie Ventura - no - domestic racer David Zabriskie - no
> - Nutra Fig to USPS
>
>
> None of these riders raced on a European team before USPS with the exception of LANCE, but he
> started on Motorola which is analogous to USPS.
>
> The reason for this is USPS does a domestic schedule as well as the European schedule. They can
> scout domestic talent up close.
>
> European teams will rarely pick up a North American rider based on North American results. Who can
> blame them? They aren't familiar with the races here and can't make informed decisions.
>
> The same logic applies to local riders wanting to make the jump to the salary-drawing national
> level. A domestic team manager needs to see a rider doing well against real competition with his
> own eyes before he will hire him. Winners of local races who think that will get a salary-paying
> position are dreaming unless they have some other connection to get them in.
>
> If USPS leaves the scene and there is no replacement, the biggest platform for making the jump
> from North America to Europe will have been removed.
>
>

You are still doing your regular job of just blowing smoke for the hell of
it..

USPS id not responsible for Greg Lemond, 7-11, Motorola in Europe. Chris Horner in Europe. Existing
American riders in Europe. And the others if USPS was not around..

Life in cycling would go on.......

Just like if you followed your promise and stayed in the "Mensa Boy" group!?!?!?!

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:BB021D76.43230%[email protected]...
> >
> > If USPS leaves the scene and there is no replacement, the biggest
platform
> > for making the jump from North America to Europe will have been removed.
> >
> >
>
> You are still doing your regular job of just blowing smoke for the hell of
> it..
>
> USPS id not responsible for Greg Lemond, 7-11, Motorola in Europe. Chris Horner in Europe.
> Existing American riders in Europe. And the others if
USPS
> was not around..
>
> Life in cycling would go on.......

I wrote:

> If USPS leaves the scene and there is no replacement, the biggest platform for making the jump
> from North America to Europe will have been removed.

Motorola and 7-11 were the same thing that USPS is: a domestically licensed squad, competing in
Europe, which provides a platform for North American riders to make the jump over there.

If USPS leaves with no replacement sponsor in place, then that tradition will end. There will once
again be North American racing and Euro racing with not much to link the two.

Clearly some people are incapable of comprehending this very simple scenario.

> You are still doing your regular job of just blowing smoke for the hell of
> it..

I feel that what I write is true. You are entitled to disagree.

 

[Tony]

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message > My point is that
the main platform to transition from North American to
> European racing will be gone if USPS leaves and a replacement sponsor is not found.
>

What about Navigators, a US domestic team? Thay have a pretty good Euro schedule.