US Postal the best team...



M

mr60percent

Guest
....or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
the current crop of US Postal domestiques.
 
T

TM

Guest
"mr60percent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> ...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
> super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
> leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
> the current crop of US Postal domestiques.


Actually, I think it is far more convincing an argument for solid training.
If it were just drugs, wouldn't their outstanding performances travel with
them in a vial?
 
D

Dan Connelly

Guest
TM wrote:
> "mr60percent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
>>super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
>>leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
>>the current crop of US Postal domestiques.

>
>
> Actually, I think it is far more convincing an argument for solid training.
> If it were just drugs, wouldn't their outstanding performances travel with
> them in a vial?



Postal D's riders have a few advantages:
1. They train specifically for the Tour.
2. Their roll is very specific. They know exactly what they need
to do in the race.
3. Their ride is essentially done when their turn in the train
is over. I've been told that an effort of 50% duration can
be done @ 5% greater power. This is a big advantage.

I can't comment on possible illegal activity. In any activity, many people
try to gain advantage. Cycling is no different.

Dan
 
J

Jim Flom

Guest
"mr60percent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> ...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
> super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
> leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
> the current crop of US Postal domestiques.


I guess you're not counting Tyler's 4th in the Tour last year.
 
A

Alex Rodriguez

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

>...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
>super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
>leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
>the current crop of US Postal domestiques.


Different team, different training.
--------------
Alex
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:15:17 GMT, Dan Connelly <[email protected]_e_e_e.o_r_g>
wrote:

>TM wrote:
>> "mr60percent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>>>...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
>>>super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
>>>leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
>>>the current crop of US Postal domestiques.

>>
>>
>> Actually, I think it is far more convincing an argument for solid training.
>> If it were just drugs, wouldn't their outstanding performances travel with
>> them in a vial?

>
>
>Postal D's riders have a few advantages:
>1. They train specifically for the Tour.
>2. Their roll is very specific. They know exactly what they need
> to do in the race.
>3. Their ride is essentially done when their turn in the train
> is over. I've been told that an effort of 50% duration can
> be done @ 5% greater power. This is a big advantage.
>
>I can't comment on possible illegal activity. In any activity, many people
>try to gain advantage. Cycling is no different.


Good points and I think very important ones. These guys aren't expected to be on
the road competing as long as their competitors.

Ron
 
I

IMKen

Guest
It's dedication to organization and purpose. You did not see US Posties
taking flyers trying to perform a successful individual breakaway as most
other teams riders did. No way can a team perform as a team when they have
riders like Simeoni breaking away. US Posties do their assigned job of
bringing Armstrong to Paris. Other teams were content to send riders off
scavenging team points or jerseys other than Yellow.

Ken



"mr60percent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> ...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
> super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
> leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
> the current crop of US Postal domestiques.
 
R

Ravenwolf

Guest
Dan Connelly <[email protected]_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> TM wrote:
>> "mr60percent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>>>...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
>>>super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
>>>leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up
>>>with the current crop of US Postal domestiques.

>>
>>
>> Actually, I think it is far more convincing an argument for solid
>> training. If it were just drugs, wouldn't their outstanding
>> performances travel with them in a vial?

>
>
> Postal D's riders have a few advantages:
> 1. They train specifically for the Tour.
> 2. Their roll is very specific. They know exactly what they need
> to do in the race.
> 3. Their ride is essentially done when their turn in the train
> is over. I've been told that an effort of 50% duration can
> be done @ 5% greater power. This is a big advantage.
>
> I can't comment on possible illegal activity. In any activity, many
> people try to gain advantage. Cycling is no different.
>
> Dan
>


Good points. I would add that if the team was using drugs, one would
think that a disgruntle team member would blow their cover over the many
years. Why hasn't that happened? I think their great performance is
just hard training.
 
J

John Forrest Tomlinson

Guest
Yall don't get it. If people think the evidence that Amstrong, or US
Postal is on drugs that the do so well in the Tour de France, they'e
mistaken. The reason to (sadly) suspect anyone riding at a high level
in the sport is that lots of pro athletes in cycling (and other
sports) are on drugs. It's widespread.

People ask me if Armstrong is on drugs. I can only say "It wouldn't
surprise me." Because in all likelihood between 30 and 95% of the
guys at the top of the sport are.

JT
 
C

Chris

Guest
"Dan Connelly" <[email protected]_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> TM wrote:
> > "mr60percent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> >
> >>...or the best doped team. Isn't it strange the way former US Postal
> >>super domestiques like Heras and Hamilton when they become team
> >>leaders and protected riders in their own right cant even keep up with
> >>the current crop of US Postal domestiques.

> >
> >
> > Actually, I think it is far more convincing an argument for solid

training.
> > If it were just drugs, wouldn't their outstanding performances travel

with
> > them in a vial?

>
>
> Postal D's riders have a few advantages:
> 1. They train specifically for the Tour.
> 2. Their roll is very specific. They know exactly what they need
> to do in the race.
> 3. Their ride is essentially done when their turn in the train
> is over. I've been told that an effort of 50% duration can
> be done @ 5% greater power. This is a big advantage.


Again, all of this can be done with confidence since the outcome is most
certain for the current defending champ. No other team can sell this to
management even when a rider beleives 100% in his ability. The only time I
have seen a challenger focus as much on the Tour was Greg Lemond and Bjarne
Riis the year he won but even they raced to win before the Tour. Greg tried
to win the Giro in '96 but ended up in 4th. Bjarne tried to win some other
tours prior to July. I don't recall the results but when Riis won the Amstel
Gold in '97, he lost as defending champ.

>
> I can't comment on possible illegal activity. In any activity, many

people
> try to gain advantage. Cycling is no different.
>
> Dan
>
 
O

OMC

Guest
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Yall don't get it. If people think the evidence that Amstrong, or US
> Postal is on drugs that the do so well in the Tour de France, they'e
> mistaken. The reason to (sadly) suspect anyone riding at a high level
> in the sport is that lots of pro athletes in cycling (and other
> sports) are on drugs. It's widespread.
>
> People ask me if Armstrong is on drugs. I can only say "It wouldn't
> surprise me." Because in all likelihood between 30 and 95% of the
> guys at the top of the sport are.
>
> JT


Wow..........so we have narrowed it down to 30%-95% use drugs.
**** with that kind of scientific based fact, you can really
clean up the sport. Lets just say 95% are doping, and instead of
looking for the drug users, we only look for the 5% that's clean and
sack the rest.....problem solved. It's always amazing to hear the
guilty guys claim that 95% is dirty, must make their justification for
doping that much easier for them.


"OMC"
 
J

Jim Flom

Guest
"OMC" wrote...
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote...
> >
> > in all likelihood between 30 and 95% of the
> > guys at the top of the sport are.
> >
> > JT

>
> Wow..........so we have narrowed it down to 30%-95% use drugs.


You're really putting yourself out there with that one John.
 
K

Kenny

Guest
USPS is the best TOUR team. The best team overall is T-Mobile.


Kenny
 
K

Kenny

Guest
USPS is the best TOUR team. The best team overall is T-Mobile.


Kenny
 
K

Kenny

Guest
USPS is the best TOUR team. The best team overall is T-Mobile.


Kenny
 
B

B. Lafferty

Guest
"OMC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:<[email protected]>...
> > Yall don't get it. If people think the evidence that Amstrong, or US
> > Postal is on drugs that the do so well in the Tour de France, they'e
> > mistaken. The reason to (sadly) suspect anyone riding at a high level
> > in the sport is that lots of pro athletes in cycling (and other
> > sports) are on drugs. It's widespread.
> >
> > People ask me if Armstrong is on drugs. I can only say "It wouldn't
> > surprise me." Because in all likelihood between 30 and 95% of the
> > guys at the top of the sport are.
> >
> > JT

>
> Wow..........so we have narrowed it down to 30%-95% use drugs.
> **** with that kind of scientific based fact, you can really
> clean up the sport. Lets just say 95% are doping, and instead of
> looking for the drug users, we only look for the 5% that's clean and
> sack the rest.....problem solved. It's always amazing to hear the
> guilty guys claim that 95% is dirty, must make their justification for
> doping that much easier for them.
>
>
> "OMC"


No matter what percentage you pick is really beside the point, IMO. It is
pretty clear that there is a significant problem in cycling as well as many
other sports. When you look at a guy like David Millar and his
reasons/rationalizations for letting Lelli start him on EPO, it really is
frightening to see the pressure riders face to get results at almost any
cost. That seems to me to be especially true for riders coming into the
elite pro level with "expectations" tacked on to them by either the press or
teams desperate for an new star and his/her resulting UCI points.
 
J

John Forrest Tomlinson

Guest
On 29 Jul 2004 19:37:49 -0700, [email protected] (OMC) wrote:
>
>Wow..........so we have narrowed it down to 30%-95% use drugs.
>**** with that kind of scientific based fact, you can really
>clean up the sport. Lets just say 95% are doping, and instead of
>looking for the drug users, we only look for the 5% that's clean and
>sack the rest.....problem solved. It's always amazing to hear the
>guilty guys claim that 95% is dirty, must make their justification for
>doping that much easier for them.


Mr. Creed,

The sad fact is I just don't know the percentage. Sad that I don't
know, and sad that I wouldn't be surprised if it was 95%. I hope it's
not that high.

There are athletes who I am pretty near certain are not on drugs
because not only do they deny it but they pour scorn on the practice
and call for better controls and better systems to find cheater. In
skiing one for sure is Beckie Scott. There's a young guy on USPS who
you may know who has written similar stuff which I admire.

JT
 
G

gwhite

Guest
"B. Lafferty" wrote:
>


> No matter what percentage you pick is really beside the point, IMO. It is
> pretty clear that there is a significant problem in cycling as well as many
> other sports. When you look at a guy like David Millar and his
> reasons/rationalizations for letting Lelli start him on EPO, it really is
> frightening to see the pressure riders face to get results at almost any
> cost. That seems to me to be especially true for riders coming into the
> elite pro level with "expectations" tacked on to them by either the press or
> teams desperate for an new star and his/her resulting UCI points.


Do you believe only an "informed consent" can make them aware of the cost? Are they really that
ignorant of the cost? Aren't they saying "the cost is worth it?"
 

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