Useful to cut and paste into all posts in this forum:

[IH8LANCE]

Waaaah! It's all Lance's fault.
I hate Basso.
I hate Discovery.
I hate Landis.
I love Ullrich, though. He's a doper too, but he hasn't signed a lucrative contract with Discovery so he's salt of the earth with me.
All cyclists dope, but but I only condemn the riders I dislike, and I dislike anyone who would voluntarily associate with Lance's team.
I'm a miserable, disgruntled, hater of all things Lance, and so I am happy to rely upon innuendo and my own questionable standard of proof to selectively condemn only Discovery and anyone who's ever ridden on that team.
Anyone who disagrees obviously knows nothing about cycling and merely wants to get into Armstrong's lycra.
Armstrong has no "charisma", which is why I and everyone else on this forum obsess about him 24 hours a day.
Lance is the antichrist.
Lance is responsible for global warming.
Lance wrecked my marriage.
Lance was created so we could complain about him. It is no coincidence that his name is an anagram for "Long Scream Rant".

 

[lumpy]

Put down the coffee and step away from the keyboard. The men in white coats are there to help you. The coat for you with the extra long sleeves is very soft and comfortable.

 

[IH8LANCE]

Put down the coffee and step away from the keyboard. The men in white coats are there to help you. The coat for you with the extra long sleeves is very soft and comfortable.

Can't fool me, "lumpy" a/k/a Lance's Unholy Malevolent Puppet Yes-man. You're all in this with him, you fiends.

 

[tcklyde]

Waaaah! It's all Lance's fault.
I hate Basso.
I hate Discovery.
I hate Landis.
I love Ullrich, though. He's a doper too, but he hasn't signed a lucrative contract with Discovery so he's salt of the earth with me.
All cyclists dope, but but I only condemn the riders I dislike, and I dislike anyone who would voluntarily associate with Lance's team.
I'm a miserable, disgruntled, hater of all things Lance, and so I am happy to rely upon innuendo and my own questionable standard of proof to selectively condemn only Discovery and anyone who's ever ridden on that team.
Anyone who disagrees obviously knows nothing about cycling and merely wants to get into Armstrong's lycra.
Armstrong has no "charisma", which is why I and everyone else on this forum obsess about him 24 hours a day.
Lance is the antichrist.
Lance is responsible for global warming.
Lance wrecked my marriage.
Lance was created so we could complain about him. It is no coincidence that his name is an anagram for "Long Scream Rant".

Haha, well I did initially miss your sarcasm, you're over the top here. We get it.

I can agree with you that some people are holding out too much for Ullrich. He's a doper and a cheater just like the rest so screw him.

But puh-leeeeaze, the delusional Lance love that creates the absolutely ridiculous explanations for the now substantial circumstantial evidence suggesting that the man is a cheat, a fraud, and a jerk easily surpasses the justifiable frustration many posters feel with the Lance PR machine.

This is to say, Lance gets plenty of love from people who don't know anything about the sport. And considering that he is a first-class liar and cheater who has gone to remarkable lengths to cover for both his friends Basso and Ullrich and his own ass, I feel about zero sympathy for him. If you want to go find a nice little I love Lance circle jerk, there is always thepaceline.com.

 

[IH8LANCE]

But puh-leeeeaze, the delusional Lance love that creates the absolutely ridiculous explanations for the now substantial circumstantial evidence suggesting that the man is a cheat, a fraud, and a jerk easily surpasses the justifiable frustration many posters feel with the Lance PR machine.

Exactly. I think all cycling fans should pledge themselves to maximizing the satisfying frustration that comes from loathing a man because he's rich and famous and no one can pin anything on him that sticks.

This is to say, Lance gets plenty of love from people who don't know anything about the sport.

That's right dammit. Every Lance fan is clueless, and all of us who loathe him are merely the conscientious defenders of a clean sport. And we all know cycling would be as pure as the Virgin Mary if Lance hadn't come along and mucked everything up.

[And considering that he is a first-class liar and cheater who has gone to remarkable lengths to cover for both his friends Basso and Ullrich and his own ass, I feel about zero sympathy for him.

Me neither. It's great to be omnipotent.

If you want to go find a nice little I love Lance circle jerk, there is always thepaceline.com.

An invitation to a disgusting orgy? What have I done to be disrespected so?

 

[TrekDedicated]

Exactly. I think all cycling fans should pledge themselves to maximizing the satisfying frustration that comes from loathing a man because he's rich and famous and no one can pin anything on him that sticks.


That's right dammit. Every Lance fan is clueless, and all of us who loathe him are merely the conscientious defenders of a clean sport. And we all know cycling would be as pure as the Virgin Mary if Lance hadn't come along and mucked everything up.


Me neither. It's great to be omnipotent.


An invitation to a disgusting orgy? What have I done to be disrespected so?

Same old same old.... *yawn*

 

[tcklyde]

Exactly. I think all cycling fans should pledge themselves to maximizing the satisfying frustration that comes from loathing a man because he's rich and famous and no one can pin anything on him that sticks.

Or maybe because he is rich and famous and uses his money and fame to cover for a sick sport? The crusade against VeloNews, the leaked letter to WADA, the admonishments of Bassons, Simieoni, Robin, sticking up for Ferrari, the speech from the TdF podium, the hiring of Basso, the spat with Lemond, the immature swipes at the French, the tarring of the labs, the payoff to UCI, the Andreau comments...

Lance has done many wonderful things, especially with Foundation. I admire the man tremendously for that. But as a fan of the sport, what is he doing to stop the sport from destroying itself? Zilch.

That's right dammit. Every Lance fan is clueless, and all of us who loathe him are merely the conscientious defenders of a clean sport. And we all know cycling would be as pure as the Virgin Mary if Lance hadn't come along and mucked everything up.

You killed that strawman. Now take a moment and listen to what people are actually saying. Lance didn't introduce doping to the sport and Basso and Ullrich are fine evidence that the rot goes to the core. But from his position of leadership and influence, he concentrated only on covering for the dope, never for fighting for a clean sport. And now his team hires a doper. Banner job, Lance.

And sure, there is a case to be made that Lance is clean, but it relies on calling a lot of other people liars. If you want to make the case, go for it. If you want to rant, the position of sarcastic truth-teller comes off as more self-righteous than right.

Me neither. It's great to be omnipotent.

A observation fitting to both sides.

An invitation to a disgusting orgy? What have I done to be disrespected so?

Why are orgies disgusting?

 

[IH8LANCE]

But as a fan of the sport, what is he doing to stop the sport from destroying itself? Zilch.

See, you're on the same page with me. It's all Lance's fault, and his responsibility to "save the sport".

Now take a moment and listen to what people are actually saying.

That's exactly how I learned to hate Lance so passionately. Listening "to what people are actually saying". When I examined the evidence against him, it wasn't as compelling, so I stopped bothering with the facts and just listened to people rant against him. Much more satisfying, and less morally ambiguous.

Lance didn't introduce doping to the sport and Basso and Ullrich are fine evidence that the rot goes to the core.

Exactly. Both of them are Armstrong disciples from way back, and both of them have been proven to be dopers. (Actually, they aren't, and they haven't, but that's just between you and me -- wink wink).

But from his position of leadership and influence, he concentrated only on covering for the dope, never for fighting for a clean sport.

"Leadership and influence". LOL. The Euros hated him from the beginning, and still do, and rightfully so. If he had railed on about how doping was killing the sport, the powers that be would have legalized doping long ago just to spite him. He's the devil.

And now his team hires a doper. Banner job, Lance.

Alleged doper who will not be charged with anything. Why waste your flimsly accusations against Basso? He's a nice guy, family man, and handsome devil. If any other team had hired him, it would have been considered a coup. Discovery does it and we gnash our teeth in indignation because of the spectre of Lance looming in the background. Livestrong. Hatestronger.

And sure, there is a case to be made that Lance is clean, but it relies on calling a lot of other people liars.

Who said he was clean? My problem with it is that all those other people can't prove a damned thing to the level required to strip Armstrong of his TdF titles and knock him off his lofty perch. He's laughing at us, and it pisses me off. OOOOOhh, that mean ol' Lance. How does God allow bastards like him to get away with being so successful yet so annoying?

Why are orgies disgusting?

Because the orgy you suggested was a circle-jerk. If that's your thing, go for it, but I'll be over here masturbating with my **** Pound doll.

 

[tcklyde]

See, you're on the same page with me. It's all Lance's fault, and his responsibility to "save the sport".



That's exactly how I learned to hate Lance so passionately. Listening "to what people are actually saying". When I examined the evidence against him, it wasn't as compelling, so I stopped bothering with the facts and just listened to people rant against him. Much more satisfying, and less morally ambiguous.



Exactly. Both of them are Armstrong disciples from way back, and both of them have been proven to be dopers. (Actually, they aren't, and they haven't, but that's just between you and me -- wink wink).



"Leadership and influence". LOL. The Euros hated him from the beginning, and still do, and rightfully so. If he had railed on about how doping was killing the sport, the powers that be would have legalized doping long ago just to spite him. He's the devil.



Alleged doper who will not be charged with anything. Why waste your flimsly accusations against Basso? He's a nice guy, family man, and handsome devil. If any other team had hired him, it would have been considered a coup. Discovery does it and we gnash our teeth in indignation because of the spectre of Lance looming in the background. Livestrong. Hatestronger.


Who said he was clean? My problem with it is that all those other people can't prove a damned thing to the level required to strip Armstrong of his TdF titles and knock him off his lofty perch. He's laughing at us, and it pisses me off. OOOOOhh, that mean ol' Lance. How does God allow bastards like him to get away with being so successful yet so annoying?



Because the orgy you suggested was a circle-jerk. If that's your thing, go for it, but I'll be over here masturbating with my **** Pound doll.

Oh, nevermind! You've got a neat new trick with the sarcasm but it's the same old hash when the joke breaks down. The Euros hate Lance. The Euros hate Discovery. Everyone is just jealous. Nothing has been proved against Lance, Ivan, Jan, etc., etc. There is no doping problem in cycling. Great. Fab-o.

You accuse me of crying about Lance? Hah! Your post in one long "Waah!" about poor persecuted Lance. Gimme a break.

I suppose you think Hamilton was framed and Landis is the victim of lab mistakes?

What's the point of arguing about this if you'll never see past your biases that others will never see past there own?

 

[IH8LANCE]

I suppose you think Hamilton was framed and Landis is the victim of lab mistakes?

No, and I don't know. Hamilton had his day in court and lost. Landis will have his, and we shall see. Point being, too many people on this forum and in the cycling community prefer to rely upon unsubstantiated hearsay and untested evidence to condemn cyclists that do not appeal to them. To you, if there's smoke, there's fire, period, case closed. In the "court of public opinion", that's enough for you to make a conviction. And that's fine if it makes you happy.

Those of you who insist Basso/Ullrich, etc. need to "prove their innocence" are looking at things backwards, in my opinion. First, they need to be accused with evidence sufficient to charge them. Only then should they be compelled to refute it. You're asking these men to defend themselves against . . . . what? Rumor? Innuendo? Screw that. Until anyone charges them with anything, there is nothing to refute.

Earlier you suggested that to claim Armstrong is innocent means you need to assume many other people are lying. Good point. But in this business, where you all assume that everyone is doping anyway, which means they're all liars, it doesn't seem so farfetched to me. If what you all say is true, then cycling is a dirty, dirty sport from top to bottom. Why do you only reserve your rancor, then, for those unfortunates who manage to get caught? Those are the poor schmoes who deserve our sympathy, because they are not doing anything different than the others, yet they are the ones who've now had their means of earning a living taken away from them.

It's all Lance's fault, of course. You make the mistake of suggesting I have some great love for the man. Wrong. I enjoyed watching him ride a bike, just like I enjoy watching Basso, and Ullrich, and Valverde and Vino and many others with and before them. I detest watching every successful cyclist have his career interrupted or reputation mauled only to find that in most cases, the "proof" seems to have holes in it. Armstrong's been scrutinized by the cycling federations, press, the fans, etc., yet no one can substantiate any proof against him sufficient to strip him of his titles in disgrace. He still holds his TdF trophies, but it seems to make some of you really happy to think he shouldn't. Why? I don't know. Is that fun for you? Does it serve any purpose? Vino, Ullrich, and Basso didn't get to ride in the premier cycling event last year based upon suspicion that is as yet unsubstantiated, etc. Was that good for cycling? Did it send a message that doping will not be tolerated? No. All it did was deprive us of watching three great riders in the greatest race. Who benefited from the fact that those riders were excluded based on innuendo? It seems all it takes to earn the wrath of you anti-doping crusaders is a good rumor, and then you devour them like cannibals.

If they're all dopers and you loathe them for it, find another hobby, because you're destined to be miserable. If they're not, and innocent cyclists ride among them, then have some decency and let the fans watch and enjoy, and don't condemn the winner just because he's faster, or because his nickname is scrawled in some notebook somewhere, or because he signs a lucrative contract with a team that is associated with the man who drives you crazy. I'm not naive enough to think that professional cyclists are all good boys who would never cheat. But neither am I masochistic enough to ruin my enjoyment of the sport by wallowing in the muck of every rumor and labeling every accused rider as a worthless cad before all the evidence is legally substantiated.

In the meantime, Lance is still the spawn of Satan.