USPS discovers the wheels that Fignon rode to victory!

[Chris]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/tour04/tech/?id=classic1

I am sort of joking but these wheels are exactly the same spec. that Team
Renault used in 1984 (Mavic SSC 400 gram box sevtion rims, 32 spoke and
sewups...duh).

I wish they would sell these wheels but the article says no way, Lance's
team only.

 

[Tom Paterson]

>From: "Chris"

[Postal wheel article):
>http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/to>ur04/tech/?id=classic1

>I am sort of joking but these wheels are exactly the same spec. that Team
>Renault used in 1984 (Mavic SSC 400 gram box sevtion rims, 32 spoke and
>sewups...duh).

Note offset spokes on rear:

<"One unique element to our Bontrager Classic wheels is that they have
different rims for the front and rear wheels. The rear wheel uses OSB, which
means Offset Spoke Bed that positions the spoke holes 2.5mm right of center so
there's no dish in the rear wheel.>

Also from the same article:

<"We discovered that the duration of the tough classic races, combined with the
typically bad weather and the high-pressure cleaners the team uses, forced us
to develop a more durable hub from when we introduced it to the team in 2002.
However, at this point there are no plans to commercialize this product, but
the technology will certainly be used in Bontrager wheels in the future.">

Maybe they'll even make them 36 spokes for the consumers. That would be nice.
--TP

 

[Todd Kuzma]

That's pretty funny! I love how they make old technology
sound like a new invention. Isn't it pretty much an
admission that paired-spoke wonder-wheels don't hold up as
well as plain old box-section rims and conventionally-laced
spokes?

If they *really* wanted to be high-tech and build a wheel
that is both lighter and more durable, they would have used
double-butted spokes. The straight gauge spokes are just a
cop-out to allow them to build the wheels faster.

Todd Kuzma
Heron Bicycles
Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery
LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776
http://www.heronbicycles.com
http://www.tullios.com

 

[Tom Paterson]

>From: Todd Kuzma

>Isn't it pretty much an
>admission that paired-spoke wonder-wheels don't hold up as
>well as plain old box-section rims and conventionally-laced
>spokes?

And that clinchers don't do as well as tubulars for resisting "impact
flatting". --TP

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Tom Paterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> [Postal wheel article):
> > http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/to>ur04/tech/?id=classic1
>
> >I am sort of joking but these wheels are exactly the same spec. that Team
> >Renault used in 1984 (Mavic SSC 400 gram box sevtion rims, 32 spoke and
> >sewups...duh).
>
> Note offset spokes on rear:

They don't look offset to me.

I think that is a mountain bike extrusion cut larger for 700c's.

In my experience Mavis Open 4CD and Campagnolo Montreal '76 were the best
rims ever. But as long as the idiots are willing to spend 2 or 3 times as
much for wheels as they're worth we won't see good rims again.

 

[Chris]

"Tom Paterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >From: "Chris"
>
> [Postal wheel article):
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/to>ur04/tech/?id=classic1
>
> >I am sort of joking but these wheels are exactly the same spec. that Team
> >Renault used in 1984 (Mavic SSC 400 gram box sevtion rims, 32 spoke and
> >sewups...duh).
>
> Note offset spokes on rear:

I saw that but I still think it is close enough to make it interesting. I
wonder if the trend towards clinchers has devided technology a bit in that
so much effort has gone in to making clinchers "as good as" sewups when they
could have been working on making sewups even better (lighter, better
performance, reliability etc.) but as it is there are very few changes to
what was state of the art in 1984 vs. 2004, offset rims aside.

>
> <"One unique element to our Bontrager Classic wheels is that they have
> different rims for the front and rear wheels. The rear wheel uses OSB,
which
> means Offset Spoke Bed that positions the spoke holes 2.5mm right of
center so
> there's no dish in the rear wheel.>
>
> Also from the same article:
>
> <"We discovered that the duration of the tough classic races, combined
with the
> typically bad weather and the high-pressure cleaners the team uses, forced
us
> to develop a more durable hub from when we introduced it to the team in
2002.
> However, at this point there are no plans to commercialize this product,
but
> the technology will certainly be used in Bontrager wheels in the future.">
>
> Maybe they'll even make them 36 spokes for the consumers. That would be
nice.
> --TP

If there were a few high profile wins on them at the same race where some
high tech wheel took a contender out of the race then maybe that would ben
enough to impact consumer's buying habits. Right now there are dudes all
across the US that use ZIPP 303s and 404s on Sunday club rides.

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Tom Paterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > [Postal wheel article):
> > > http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/to>ur04/tech/?id=classic1
> >
> > >I am sort of joking but these wheels are exactly the same spec. that Team
> > >Renault used in 1984 (Mavic SSC 400 gram box sevtion rims, 32 spoke and
> > >sewups...duh).
> >
> > Note offset spokes on rear:
>
> They don't look offset to me.

They are, just not that much. Certainly not enough to be able to
honestly state that "dish is eliminated." It is reduced, however.

> I think that is a mountain bike extrusion cut larger for 700c's.

Could be, as they sell 700c rims from mtb extrusions.
http://www.bontrager.com/mountainrims/detail.asp?id=110&pt=6

For road rims:
http://www.bontrager.com/roadrims/detail.asp?id=184&pt=6

--
tanx,
Howard

So far, so good, so what?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[Evan Evans]

[email protected]ospam (Tom Paterson) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >From: Todd Kuzma
>
> >Isn't it pretty much an
> >admission that paired-spoke wonder-wheels don't hold up as
> >well as plain old box-section rims and conventionally-laced
> >spokes?
>
> And that clinchers don't do as well as tubulars for resisting "impact
> flatting". --TP

is any of this a surprise to anyone? every bike shop in the nation
sell similar stuff. people just don't want it.

 

[VINCENTGEE]

>
>If they *really* wanted to be high-tech and build a wheel
>that is both lighter and more durable, they would have used
>double-butted spokes. The straight gauge spokes are just a
>cop-out to allow them to build the wheels faster.

I'm not sure why I' posting but could not resist but:

That's kind of humerous Todd. It's a cop out to build faster?

If you mean for example 14g straight is easier to build than 15 butted, I think
I'd have to disagree speaking for myself of course.

Speaking purely of speed in loading the hub full of spokes I think it is much
easier to build with the butted ones. Once you get passed the "first" butted
section as it gets to the thinner section it will "fall" into place easier and
thus faster rather than trying to "Wiggle" the 14g spoke which is fat all the
way and thus slower to load to me. This is the only difference in building
speed as the rest is equal in all aspects. No difference in speed threading
either nipple on th a 14 vs a 14/15 for example.

 

[VINCENTGEE]

Oh and when I worked for the Saturn team, I built a wheel or two or 300. We
would build about 50 pairs of wheels each mechanic back in 95,96,97,98. Now
(unfortunately) we don't get to build so many on this team.

Vincent Gee
Mechanic
US Postal

 

[VINCENTGEE]

>
>If you mean for example 14g straight is easier to build than 15 butted, I
>think
>I'd have to disagree speaking for myself of course.
>

OK I have to really check my typing first.

I meant:

If you mean 14g straight is easier to build than 14/15 butted.........

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>I'm not sure why I' posting but could not resist but:
>That's kind of humerous Todd. It's a cop out to build faster?
>If you mean for example 14g straight is easier to build than 15 butted, I
think
>I'd have to disagree speaking for myself of course.
>Speaking purely of speed in loading the hub full of spokes I think it is much
>easier to build with the butted ones. Once you get passed the "first" butted
>section as it gets to the thinner section it will "fall" into place easier and
>thus faster rather than trying to "Wiggle" the 14g spoke which is fat all the
>way and thus slower to load to me. This is the only difference in building
>speed as the rest is equal in all aspects. No difference in speed threading
>either nipple on th a 14 vs a 14/15 for example.

My experience has been different, though I have not built but a tiny fraction
of the wheels you have built. The only time I have worked with a wheel with
straight gauge spokes it went much quicker than when I build with my usual
15/16 spokes. There is substantially less wind up, almost none actually.
So that alone speeds up the process. I found no difference in the amount
of time it takes to lace up the wheel. Again, since I don't build that many
wheels a couple of minutes difference lacing up a wheel makes no difference
to me. If I was building hundreds of wheels, a couple of minutes would make
a big difference.
---------------
Alex

 

[Todd Kuzma]

VINCENTGEE wrote:
>>If they *really* wanted to be high-tech and build a wheel
>>that is both lighter and more durable, they would have used
>>double-butted spokes. The straight gauge spokes are just a
>>cop-out to allow them to build the wheels faster.
>
>
> I'm not sure why I' posting but could not resist but:
>
> That's kind of humerous Todd. It's a cop out to build faster?
>
> If you mean for example 14g straight is easier to build than 15 butted, I think
> I'd have to disagree speaking for myself of course.

There is much less spoke wind-up when building with straight
gauge spokes. If that ISN'T the reason that they used those
spokes, then it's just plain dumb.

Todd Kuzma
Heron Bicycles
Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery
LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776
http://www.heronbicycles.com
http://www.tullios.com

 

[John Everett]

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 09:01:48 -0700, "Chris"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/tour04/tech/?id=classic1
>
>I am sort of joking but these wheels are exactly the same spec. that Team
>Renault used in 1984 (Mavic SSC 400 gram box sevtion rims, 32 spoke and
>sewups...duh).

Used primarily by Renault because of Fignon's endorsement deal with
Bontrager touting their Classic hubs. ;-)


jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3