V2 Formula vs GRR



I first met Bill in Salisbury, MD at the Seagull Century probably five
or six years ago. He was riding his protype of the "Oregon", his
front-wheel drive low racer. He could really move on that thing! I
crossed paths with him again in Washington DC at a recumbent ride
sponsored by WHIRL. He had a "Dakota" with him that day. Very nice
bike with VERY loyal following! In fact, Mark Colliton had an early
GIRO (the original green version) and a prototype of the "AERO" at the
same event.

Jim
 
S

Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic

Guest
Jim Reilly wrote:
> The fit and finish work [of the Earth Cycles Dragonflyer] look top notch.


But probably too labor intensive from a business point of view. :(

Shean Bjoralt may not have been a good businessman, but he certainly
was a skilled and dedicated artisan. An examination of the Dragonflyer
indicates that the $3,850 asking price may have been too low
considering the labor involved. One could argue that the design could
have been simplified so as to bring a quality product to market at a
lower price (e.g. Catrike) but it is what it is.

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Jim Reilly wrote:
>> The fit and finish work [of the Earth Cycles Dragonflyer] look top notch.

>
> But probably too labor intensive from a business point of view. :(
>
> Shean Bjoralt may not have been a good businessman, but he certainly
> was a skilled and dedicated artisan. An examination of the Dragonflyer
> indicates that the $3,850 asking price may have been too low
> considering the labor involved. One could argue that the design could
> have been simplified so as to bring a quality product to market at a
> lower price (e.g. Catrike) but it is what it is.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley


Tom, awhile back there was a guy who was going to bring out a whole line of
recumbents that would be bolted together out of aluminum square tubes. It
would have been possible to configure the bike many different ways depending
on how you wanted to bolt it together. I got very excited about all of this
until I heard his prices. However, I don't think he ever went into
production. I think he was located in Texas, but I am not sure about that.

Anyway, it seemed like a great idea. A bolted together recumbent out of
aluminum square tubing should be plenty strong enough and it would seem like
it could be done cheaply and therefore sold at a low price. What am I
missing I wonder?

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I first met Bill in Salisbury, MD at the Seagull Century probably five
> or six years ago. He was riding his protype of the "Oregon", his
> front-wheel drive low racer. He could really move on that thing! I
> crossed paths with him again in Washington DC at a recumbent ride
> sponsored by WHIRL. He had a "Dakota" with him that day. Very nice
> bike with VERY loyal following! In fact, Mark Colliton had an early
> GIRO (the original green version) and a prototype of the "AERO" at the
> same event.
>
> Jim


On the North Dakota ride (CANDISC) I tried to keep up with Bill on my
Vision, but it was impossible. He was a very steady fast rider whereas I am
only occasionally fast. I remember at the time that he mentioned that he
wanted his bike to be comfortable (that meant laid back) and fast (that
meant aerodynamic). I think his bikes (Barcroft) achieved both those aims.
It is too bad they cost around $2000.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
S

Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic

Guest
Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Tom, awhile back there was a guy who was going to bring out a whole line of
> recumbents that would be bolted together out of aluminum square tubes. It
> would have been possible to configure the bike many different ways depending
> on how you wanted to bolt it together. I got very excited about all of this
> until I heard his prices. However, I don't think he ever went into
> production. I think he was located in Texas, but I am not sure about that.


Ed Dolan may be thinking about Rich Richardson's Raptor Trike:
<http://www.raptortrikes.com/>.

> Anyway, it seemed like a great idea. A bolted together recumbent out of
> aluminum square tubing should be plenty strong enough and it would seem like
> it could be done cheaply and therefore sold at a low price. What am I
> missing I wonder?


$1,200 US is a low price for a trike (what the Raptor costs), but there
are compromises in component level (e.g. Shimano Tourney 7-speed, rim
brakes) and weight (e.g. 39 pounds is much heavier than the welded
aluminium Catrike).

As why the rest of the industry has not adopted the bolted together
method of construction, they are either "behind the curve" or the
method is not necessarily superior or competitive.

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
"the bacteria people tuned in-as to bioengineering at the correct
wave
Point" - G. Daniels
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>> Tom, awhile back there was a guy who was going to bring out a whole line
>> of
>> recumbents that would be bolted together out of aluminum square tubes. It
>> would have been possible to configure the bike many different ways
>> depending
>> on how you wanted to bolt it together. I got very excited about all of
>> this
>> until I heard his prices. However, I don't think he ever went into
>> production. I think he was located in Texas, but I am not sure about
>> that.

>
> Ed Dolan may be thinking about Rich Richardson's Raptor Trike:
> <http://www.raptortrikes.com/>.


No, it was not the above. I will do some research on this and get back to
you as I think it is something that you should know about.

>> Anyway, it seemed like a great idea. A bolted together recumbent out of
>> aluminum square tubing should be plenty strong enough and it would seem
>> like
>> it could be done cheaply and therefore sold at a low price. What am I
>> missing I wonder?

>
> $1,200 US is a low price for a trike (what the Raptor costs), but there
> are compromises in component level (e.g. Shimano Tourney 7-speed, rim
> brakes) and weight (e.g. 39 pounds is much heavier than the welded
> aluminium Catrike).
>
> As why the rest of the industry has not adopted the bolted together
> method of construction, they are either "behind the curve" or the
> method is not necessarily superior or competitive.


I think one of the main costs involved with building recumbents is the labor
cost. A bolted together recumbent made out of aluminum square tubes would go
a long ways to solving the cost of labor. Yes, the weight would be more and
the components would be bottom of the line. I would not care about either of
those considerations. The price is the main thing. If someone could figure
out how to build a recumbent for a couple of hundred dollars, who knows what
might transpire. I believe recumbents are where they are today (few and far
between) because they are so damn expensive.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

> --
> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
> "the bacteria people tuned in-as to bioengineering at the correct
> wave
> Point" - G. Daniels


PS. Tom, your signature is a mess. It badly needs to be cleaned up.
 
S

Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic

Guest
Edward Dolan wrote:
> ...
> I think one of the main costs involved with building recumbents is the labor
> cost. A bolted together recumbent made out of aluminum square tubes would go
> a long ways to solving the cost of labor. Yes, the weight would be more and
> the components would be bottom of the line. I would not care about either of
> those considerations. The price is the main thing. If someone could figure
> out how to build a recumbent for a couple of hundred dollars, who knows what
> might transpire. I believe recumbents are where they are today (few and far
> between) because they are so damn expensive.


Here is how bicycle shaped objects costing less then $100 US are
brought to market:
<http://www.nlcnet.org/campaigns/archive/chinareport/huffybikesdoc.shtml>.

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
"ever get suspicious about chain saw oil attracting wood dust?
generally mucking up after two cuts?
try dumping hot oil into a container just right sized for inserting
the running blade on the job. rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
plus 750 rpm! " - G. Daniels
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> ...
>> I think one of the main costs involved with building recumbents is the
>> labor
>> cost. A bolted together recumbent made out of aluminum square tubes would
>> go
>> a long ways to solving the cost of labor. Yes, the weight would be more
>> and
>> the components would be bottom of the line. I would not care about either
>> of
>> those considerations. The price is the main thing. If someone could
>> figure
>> out how to build a recumbent for a couple of hundred dollars, who knows
>> what
>> might transpire. I believe recumbents are where they are today (few and
>> far
>> between) because they are so damn expensive.

>
> Here is how bicycle shaped objects costing less then $100 US are
> brought to market:
> <http://www.nlcnet.org/campaigns/archive/chinareport/huffybikesdoc.shtml>.


That is China's problem, not ours. We can't fix the whole world now can we?
We are presently engaged in Iraq and fully occupied in as much as the
cowardly Europeans are not doing their fair share.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

> --
> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
> "ever get suspicious about chain saw oil attracting wood dust?
> generally mucking up after two cuts?
> try dumping hot oil into a container just right sized for inserting
> the running blade on the job. rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
> plus 750 rpm! " - G. Daniels


PS. The above is the messiest signature I have ever seen, always excepting
of course that of Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland. He is a medical physics
officer in a hospital which I am dying to know about, but he refuses to tell
me what it is. I am too proud to ever look it up, former librarian that I
am.
 
S

Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic

Guest
Edward Dolan wrote:
>...
> We are presently engaged in Iraq and fully occupied in as much as the
> cowardly Europeans are not doing their fair share.


Who's we, white man? - Tonto

>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> > --
> > Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
> > "ever get suspicious about chain saw oil attracting wood dust?
> > generally mucking up after two cuts?
> > try dumping hot oil into a container just right sized for inserting
> > the running blade on the job. rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
> > plus 750 rpm! " - G. Daniels

>
> PS. The above is the messiest signature I have ever seen...


You are supposed to imagine a running chain saw being dipped into hot
oil. :)

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
"ahno. the edo comes and goes. you stand there and experience the edo

unless you are bound by ego
riding a bike is highly valued as a way to experience and sample the
edo" - G. Daniels
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>...
>> We are presently engaged in Iraq and fully occupied in as much as the
>> cowardly Europeans are not doing their fair share.

>
> Who's we, white man? - Tonto


There is no use pretending that there is anyone on this group except
Americans. Yes, there are a few foreigners, mostly from the UK, but they do
not count for much. Essentially, ARBR is an American newsgroup and the
majority of posters to this group are Midwestern Americans.

Whatever happened to those Danes who used to occasionally show up here? No
more Germans either. I have been waiting for years for a Frenchman to show
up, but no such luck!

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>...
>> We are presently engaged in Iraq and fully occupied in as much as the
>> cowardly Europeans are not doing their fair share.

>
> Who's we, white man? - Tonto


There is no use pretending that there is anyone on this group except
Americans. Yes, there are a few foreigners, mostly from the UK, but they do
not count for much. Essentially, ARBR is an American newsgroup and the
majority of posters to this group are Midwestern Americans.

Whatever happened to those Danes who used to occasionally show up here? No
more Germans either. I have been waiting for years for a Frenchman to show
up, but no such luck!

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
S

Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic

Guest
Jim Reilly <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think Calhoun Cycle has the V2 Formula on sale for $2100, less than
> the going rate for a quality used Gold Rush Replica. The V2 Formula
> and GRR are both aluminum and come in around the same weight. So how
> does the V2F compete with the GRR in the speed dept?
>
> Jim Reilly
> Reading, PA


HEY, check out this thread from a little less than two (2) years ago:
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent/browse_frm/thread/2647e0fd95540d39/b9a287a35f5fc084?q=battle+mountain+sherman&rnum=6#b9a287a35f5fc084>.

Does history repeat itself? :)
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
 
I guess this proves Ed's point! I am old! I was warned the mind would
start to go after 40! I just didn't think it would happen to me! How
sad is that.

Jim
 
S

Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic

Guest
Jim Reilly <[email protected]> wrote:
> I guess this proves Ed's point! I am old! I was warned the mind would
> start to go after 40! I just didn't think it would happen to me! How
> sad is that.


I was actually looking for something else in Google Groups archives and
found it interesting that Jim Reilly asked basically the same question
2 years ago and I provided basically the same answer.

Message to Jim - time is a wasting! Just buy the GRR or V2 Formula in
time for spring riding. If you can not decide, just get both! :)

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Jim Reilly <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I guess this proves Ed's point! I am old! I was warned the mind would
>> start to go after 40! I just didn't think it would happen to me! How
>> sad is that.

>
> I was actually looking for something else in Google Groups archives and
> found it interesting that Jim Reilly asked basically the same question
> 2 years ago and I provided basically the same answer.
>
> Message to Jim - time is a wasting! Just buy the GRR or V2 Formula in
> time for spring riding. If you can not decide, just get both! :)
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley


Tom has a point here. I have let life pass me by because I will think a
thing to death. It is better sometimes to just take the plunge and get
whatever it is that you think you want. Then it is over and done with and I
think you are generally happier for having done something.

I am famous for never doing anything, but there is almost nothing I haven't
thought of doing. The end result of my way is to end up with a lot of
regrets. People have been known to die from pining away with regret.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
I have to do it this year.... I may have to sell the Strada and maybe
the Stratus as part of the agreement (with my wife of course), but it's
time for me to part with the $$$ and get a GRR.

Jim
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I have to do it this year.... I may have to sell the Strada and maybe
> the Stratus as part of the agreement (with my wife of course), but it's
> time for me to part with the $$$ and get a GRR.
>
> Jim


A friend of mine, formerly from Nebraska and now of Virginia, got himself a
GRR and he just loves it. He had a Vision and a Terra Trike, but he has let
them go and now rides his GRR exclusively. He got the polished aluminum one
which is a real looker. I would recommend that you get that one too. The GRR
is an expensive bike and therefore it might as well look it.

I would also recommend that you go with the Cool Mesh Seat as the Cobra hard
shell seat is pure hell.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
J

Johnny Sunset

Guest
Edward Dolan wrote:
> ...
> I would also recommend that you go with the Cool Mesh Seat as the Cobra hard
> shell seat is pure hell.


The mesh back seat with a foam pad over a molded base from Easy Racers
is the "Koolback", not "Cool Mesh".

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
0."ahno. the edo comes and goes. you stand there and experience the
edo
unless you are bound by ego
riding a bike is highly valued as a way to experience and sample the
edo" - G. Daniels
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
"Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> ...
>> I would also recommend that you go with the Cool Mesh Seat as the Cobra
>> hard
>> shell seat is pure hell.

>
> The mesh back seat with a foam pad over a molded base from Easy Racers
> is the "Koolback", not "Cool Mesh".


Whatever!

>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
> 0."ahno. the edo comes and goes. you stand there and experience the
> edo
> unless you are bound by ego
> riding a bike is highly valued as a way to experience and sample the
> edo" - G. Daniels


I don't believe G. Daniels said any of the above at all. Instead it is Mr.
Sherman who is saying it because he is jealous of me. I have become the most
prolific poster of all time to ARBR from a single email address (which is
all that counts when it comes to the statistic). He is doomed never to
overtake me because he keeps changing his email address. My ego has
superseded his ego. Yes indeed, it is all about the edo.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
J

Johnny Sunset

Guest
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > Edward Dolan wrote:
> >> ...
> >> I would also recommend that you go with the Cool Mesh Seat as the Cobra
> >> hard
> >> shell seat is pure hell.

> >
> > The mesh back seat with a foam pad over a molded base from Easy Racers
> > is the "Koolback", not "Cool Mesh".

>
> Whatever!


The great Ed Dolan makes a mistake!

> > --
> > Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
> > 0."ahno. the edo comes and goes. you stand there and experience the
> > edo
> > unless you are bound by ego
> > riding a bike is highly valued as a way to experience and sample the
> > edo" - G. Daniels

>
> I don't believe G. Daniels said any of the above at all....


Original post at
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/cdbae7e18ba41d13?dmode=source&hl=en>.
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
"Locktite produces a slip fit enhancer
allowing all kinds of unbearable tolerance screwups depending on the
mishape, load, weather, and the time and geography of manufacture. Try
the locktite, see the NAPA man for advice and fresh formulation and
prices as reliable as what you read here. bring the bike over and
grovel." - G. Daniels [1]

[1]
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/13f91a200724cd1c?dmode=source>.
 

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