Vandeman's ramblings published in Backpacker magazine

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Richard Watts, Sep 3, 2003.

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  1. MV's same old tirade has been published in the September 2003 issue of Backpacker magazine. Page 26
    asks the question: Should mountain bikes be allowed on hiking trails? Of course MV says no. His
    argument against bikes is the same as always; only the bikes are banned, not the bikers Mountain
    bikes run over animals, etc..

    Seems to me he would put his somewhat prolific pen to work in support of something that really makes
    a difference to the planet. The rampant consumption of oil causes more environmental damage in a
    week than all the mountain bikes in the world have since their invention. Oh well, he probably
    drives a Hummer....

    The credit for his editorial lists him as Former Chair, Wildlife Committee, San Fransisco Bay
    Chapter of the Sierra Club. I think maybe I'll let my Sierra Club membership elapse after seeing
    that one. I wonder what George Dubya's position on mountain biking is?

    BTW, Backpacker magazine is published by Rodale Press, the same people that publish
    Bicycling magazine.

    Seriously though Mike, I do respect your dedication and your work toward a cause you apparently
    believe in. But have you ever heard of the Pareto principle? The "vital few?" For the benefit of
    some readers that may not have, the Pareto principle states that the vast majority of problems are
    caused by a vital few causes, all the remaining causes are the trivial many. When looking at
    environmental concerns, surely mountain biking must be in the trivial many when there are millions
    of cars on our highways and plenty of coal fired power plants.
     
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  2. On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 02:33:19 GMT, "Richard Watts" <[email protected]> wrote:

    .MV's same old tirade has been published in the September 2003 issue of .Backpacker magazine. Page
    26 asks the question: Should mountain bikes be .allowed on hiking trails? Of course MV says no. His
    argument against bikes .is the same as always; only the bikes are banned, not the bikers Mountain
    .bikes run over animals, etc.. . .Seems to me he would put his somewhat prolific pen to work in
    support of .something that really makes a difference to the planet. The rampant .consumption of oil
    causes more environmental damage in a week than all the .mountain bikes in the world have since
    their invention. Oh well, he .probably drives a Hummer.... . .The credit for his editorial lists him
    as Former Chair, Wildlife Committee, .San Fransisco Bay Chapter of the Sierra Club. I think maybe
    I'll let my .Sierra Club membership elapse after seeing that one. I wonder what George .Dubya's
    position on mountain biking is? . .BTW, Backpacker magazine is published by Rodale Press, the same
    people that .publish Bicycling magazine. . .Seriously though Mike, I do respect your dedication and
    your work toward a .cause you apparently believe in. But have you ever heard of the Pareto
    .principle? The "vital few?" For the benefit of some readers that may not .have, the Pareto
    principle states that the vast majority of problems are .caused by a vital few causes, all the
    remaining causes are the trivial many. .When looking at environmental concerns, surely mountain
    biking must be in .the trivial many when there are millions of cars on our highways and plenty .of
    coal fired power plants.

    Compared to murder, burglary is "trivial". So I guess we should ignore burglary. Idiot.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  3. Gary S .

    Gary S . Guest

    On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:02:53 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 02:33:19 GMT, "Richard Watts" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >.MV's same old tirade has been published in the September 2003 issue of .Backpacker magazine. Page
    >26 asks the question: Should mountain bikes be .allowed on hiking trails? Of course MV says no.
    >His argument against bikes .is the same as always; only the bikes are banned, not the bikers
    >Mountain .bikes run over animals, etc.. . .The credit for his editorial lists him as Former Chair,
    >Wildlife Committee, .San Fransisco Bay Chapter of the Sierra Club. I think maybe I'll let my
    >.Sierra Club membership elapse after seeing that one. I wonder what George .Dubya's position on
    >mountain biking is? .
    Considering that he was removed from that position by his local chapter of the SC for "Breach of
    Leadership Trust", and the national Board of the Sierra Club has banned him from holding elective or
    appointive office in the Sierra Club, I am not certain that his using that title is appropriate. It
    would be if he had retired gracefully.

    Technically correct in a narrow sense, but not appropriate to use a "former" title when one has been
    removed from that position for cause.

    Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear)
    ------------------------------------------------
    at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

    Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
     
  4. psycho-

    psycho- New Member

    Joined:
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    Last I heard, hikers cause alot of damage too. Just look at the damage caused by them in some public areas.
     
  5. B Good

    B Good Guest

    "Richard Watts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    > MV's same old tirade has been published in the September 2003 issue of Backpacker magazine. Page
    > 26 asks the question: Should mountain bikes be allowed on hiking trails? Of course MV says no. His
    > argument against
    bikes
    > is the same as always; only the bikes are banned, not the bikers Mountain bikes run over
    > animals, etc..

    Well really if magazines would deal with the issue instead of trying to create a story, things
    really get pretty simple. If they(magazines) like to catagorize everything, why even ask the
    questions? A hiking trail is a trail for hiking. A biking trails is a trail for biking. A horse
    trail is a trail for people on horses. A multi-use trail is a trail for multi-use. And if
    Dr.Duh can't figure that out, then who is the idiot?
     
  6. Mr. E. Mann

    Mr. E. Mann Guest

    "Richard Watts" <[email protected]> wrote in news:p[email protected]:

    > MV's same old tirade has been published in the September 2003 issue of Backpacker magazine. Page
    > 26 asks the question: Should mountain bikes be allowed on hiking trails?

    Hey, How about this! Should hikers be allowed on mountain bike trails! They are usually the ones
    responsible for most bike/pedestrian related accedents. I've been taken down by some idiot who side
    stepped right in front of me while I was riding by. Next time I going to run them down. Maybe that
    will teach them a lesson.

    <treehugger crap snipped
     
  7. On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 02:33:19 +0000, Richard Watts did issue forth:

    > The credit for his editorial lists him as Former Chair, Wildlife Committee, San Fransisco Bay
    > Chapter of the Sierra Club. I think maybe I'll let my Sierra Club membership elapse after seeing
    > that one. I wonder what George Dubya's position on mountain biking is?

    I wouldn't worry too much. Apparently the Sierra Club weren't that fond of him either.

    http://www.sierraclub.org/bod/minutes/2003/me20030307.pdf
    http://www.sierraclub.org/bod/minutes/2003/mb20030222.pdf

    Huw
     
  8. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    Mr. E. Mann wrote:

    > "Richard Watts" <[email protected]> wrote in news:p[email protected]:
    >
    >
    >>MV's same old tirade has been published in the September 2003 issue of Backpacker magazine. Page
    >>26 asks the question: Should mountain bikes be allowed on hiking trails?
    >
    >
    > Hey, How about this! Should hikers be allowed on mountain bike trails! They are usually the ones
    > responsible for most bike/pedestrian related accedents. I've been taken down by some idiot who
    > side stepped right in front of me while I was riding by. Next time I going to run them down. Maybe
    > that will teach them a lesson.

    Did you make sure that they knew that you were there? If so, then it's on them; if not, then the
    problem's yours.

    David
     
  9. Lefty

    Lefty Guest

    David Kunz wrote:

    [people stepping out in front of a bike]

    > Did you make sure that they knew that you were there? If so, then it's on them; if not, then the
    > problem's yours.

    Some hikers can be strange. They seem to think the sound of a "ding ding" from a bike bell, or even
    a "good morning" is an immediate threat to their saftey. They'll jump this way or that. My personal
    favorite are the guys who will immediately grab their female hiking partner by the arms, and *move*
    them one way or the other. Often the wrong way.

    I already give them plenty of room ... extra because I've seen things like that so often.
     
  10. Slacker

    Slacker Guest

    > I wouldn't worry too much. Apparently the Sierra Club weren't that fond of him either.
    >
    > http://www.sierraclub.org/bod/minutes/2003/me20030307.pdf
    > http://www.sierraclub.org/bod/minutes/2003/mb20030222.pdf
    >
    > Huw

    Too funny! The ball-less hermaphrodite can't even play with it's own.

    "2. Bay Chapter BoLT Issue

    MSC (Dobson-O'Connell) The ExCom requests the Organizational Effectiveness Committee to investigate
    additional issues that arose during the Breach of Leadership Trust (BoLT) investigation, in order to
    determine whether Mr. Vandeman's Sierra Club membership should be revoked.

    Passed unanimously Absent: Larry Fahn"
     
  11. Westie

    Westie Guest

    "Slacker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Too funny! The ball-less hermaphrodite can't even play with it's own.

    28. Bay Chapter BoLT Issue MSC (McGrady-Aumen) The Board of Directors permanently bars Michael
    Vandeman from holding any elective or appointive leadership positions within the Sierra Club. In
    addition, Mr. Vandeman is not to represent the Sierra Club, or any of its entities, in any
    manner or on any issue, explicitly or implicitly. Passed unanimously.

    Wouldn't listing himself as a Former Chair of Sierra Club in that article in 'Backpacker' constitute
    implicity or explicity him representing the Sierra Club? Has he breached the boards mandate already?
    Maybe they'd want to add that to their list? Then again, it sounds like they've already got their
    hands full. Who's the idiot now? ROTFLMAO!
    --
    Westie
     
  12. On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 08:53:46 GMT, "Mr. E. Mann" <[email protected]> wrote:

    ."Richard Watts" <[email protected]> wrote in .news:p[email protected]: .
    .> MV's same old tirade has been published in the September 2003 issue of .> Backpacker magazine.
    Page 26 asks the question: Should mountain bikes .> be allowed on hiking trails? . .Hey, How about
    this! Should hikers be allowed on mountain bike trails! They .are usually the ones responsible for
    most bike/pedestrian related .accedents.

    BS. If you weren't on a bike, there would have been no accident.

    I've been taken down by some idiot who side stepped right in .front of me while I was riding
    by. Next time I going to run them down. .Maybe that will teach them a lesson. . . .<treehugger
    crap snipped>

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  13. On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:36:13 GMT, Gary S. <[email protected]> wrote:

    .On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:02:53 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> .wrote: . .>On Thu, 04 Sep
    2003 02:33:19 GMT, "Richard Watts" <[email protected]> wrote: .> .>.MV's same old tirade has been
    published in the September 2003 issue of .>.Backpacker magazine. Page 26 asks the question: Should
    mountain bikes be .>.allowed on hiking trails? Of course MV says no. His argument against bikes
    .>.is the same as always; only the bikes are banned, not the bikers Mountain .>.bikes run over
    animals, etc.. .>. .>.The credit for his editorial lists him as Former Chair, Wildlife Committee,
    .>.San Fransisco Bay Chapter of the Sierra Club. I think maybe I'll let my .>.Sierra Club membership
    elapse after seeing that one. I wonder what George .>.Dubya's position on mountain biking is? .>.
    .Considering that he was removed from that position by his local .chapter of the SC for "Breach of
    Leadership Trust", and the national .Board of the Sierra Club has banned him from holding elective
    or .appointive office in the Sierra Club, I am not certain that his using .that title is
    appropriate. It would be if he had retired gracefully. . .Technically correct in a narrow sense, but
    not appropriate to use a ."former" title when one has been removed from that position for cause.

    You are LYING. The Board was required to drop that charge, for missing their own deadline. And it
    was NOT "for cause", but for telling the truth.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  14. On 4 Sep 2003 15:43:16 +0950, psycho- <[email protected]> wrote:

    .Last I heard, hikers cause alot of damage too. Just look at the damage .caused by them in some
    public areas.

    Of course. So what? That doesn't excuse mountain biking. DUH!
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  15. On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:47:06 GMT, "Lefty" <[email protected]> wrote:

    .David Kunz wrote: . .[people stepping out in front of a bike] . .> Did you make sure that they knew
    that you were there? If so, then .> it's on them; if not, then the problem's yours. . .Some hikers
    can be strange. They seem to think the sound of a "ding .ding" from a bike bell, or even a "good
    morning" is an immediate threat .to their saftey. They'll jump this way or that. My personal
    favorite .are the guys who will immediately grab their female hiking partner by .the arms, and
    *move* them one way or the other. Often the wrong way. . .I already give them plenty of room ...
    extra because I've seen things .like that so often.

    A bell says NOTHING, except maybe "get out of my way". People who use bells are idiots.

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  16. On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:59:47 +1200, "Westie" <[email protected]> wrote:

    . ."Slacker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    .news:[email protected]... .> Too funny! The ball-less hermaphrodite can't
    even play with it's own. . .28. Bay Chapter BoLT Issue .MSC (McGrady-Aumen) .The Board of Directors
    permanently bars Michael Vandeman from holding any .elective .or appointive leadership positions
    within the Sierra Club. In addition, Mr. .Vandeman is .not to represent the Sierra Club, or any of
    its entities, in any manner or .on any issue, .explicitly or implicitly. .Passed unanimously. .
    .Wouldn't listing himself as a Former Chair of Sierra Club in that article in .'Backpacker'
    constitute implicity or explicity him representing the Sierra .Club? Has he breached the boards
    mandate already? Maybe they'd want to add .that to their list? Then again, it sounds like they've
    already got their .hands full. .Who's the idiot now? ROTFLMAO!

    Too bad they are so incompetent that they had to drop their complaint due to missing their own
    deadline. :)
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  17. Mll

    Mll Guest

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:36:13 GMT, Gary S. <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > .On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:02:53 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> .wrote: . .>On Thu, 04 Sep
    > 2003 02:33:19 GMT, "Richard Watts" <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    > .> .>.MV's same old tirade has been published in the September 2003 issue of .>.Backpacker
    > magazine. Page 26 asks the question: Should mountain bikes
    be
    > .>.allowed on hiking trails? Of course MV says no. His argument against
    bikes
    > .>.is the same as always; only the bikes are banned, not the bikers
    Mountain
    > .>.bikes run over animals, etc.. .>. .>.The credit for his editorial lists him as Former Chair,
    > Wildlife
    Committee,
    > .>.San Fransisco Bay Chapter of the Sierra Club. I think maybe I'll let
    my
    > .>.Sierra Club membership elapse after seeing that one. I wonder what
    George
    > .>.Dubya's position on mountain biking is? .>. .Considering that he was removed from that position
    > by his local .chapter of the SC for "Breach of Leadership Trust", and the national .Board of the
    > Sierra Club has banned him from holding elective or .appointive office in the Sierra Club, I am
    > not certain that his using .that title is appropriate. It would be if he had retired gracefully. .
    > .Technically correct in a narrow sense, but not appropriate to use a ."former" title when one has
    > been removed from that position for cause.
    >
    > You are LYING. The Board was required to drop that charge, for missing
    their own
    > deadline. And it was NOT "for cause", but for telling the truth.
    > ===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

    Mike, Your website contains the statement "It is probably impossible to understand my web page,
    if you own a car. Or a mountain bike." I find 2 things interesting: (1) that you put it at the
    bottom of your site and (2) that you said it all. Surely you know that such arrogance is seen as
    nothing more than self-serving and idiotic. I own a car and a mountain bike. I understand your
    views and I know you will lose the argument because you do not, in spite of your education,
    understand fundamental human nature. You don't get people to listen, much less cooperate, by
    slapping them in the face.

    PSWatch those sentence fragments!
     
  18. On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 07:50:40 -0400, "MLL" <reply.to.the.group.not.me> wrote:

    ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    .news:[email protected]... .> On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:36:13 GMT, Gary S.
    <[email protected]> wrote: .> .> .On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:02:53 GMT, Mike Vandeman
    <[email protected]> .> .wrote: .> . .> .>On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 02:33:19 GMT, "Richard Watts"
    <[email protected]> .wrote: .> .> .> .>.MV's same old tirade has been published in the September
    2003 issue of .> .>.Backpacker magazine. Page 26 asks the question: Should mountain bikes .be .>
    .>.allowed on hiking trails? Of course MV says no. His argument against .bikes .> .>.is the same as
    always; only the bikes are banned, not the bikers .Mountain .> .>.bikes run over animals, etc.. .>
    .>. .> .>.The credit for his editorial lists him as Former Chair, Wildlife .Committee, .> .>.San
    Fransisco Bay Chapter of the Sierra Club. I think maybe I'll let .my .> .>.Sierra Club membership
    elapse after seeing that one. I wonder what .George .> .>.Dubya's position on mountain biking is? .>
    .>. .> .Considering that he was removed from that position by his local .> .chapter of the SC for
    "Breach of Leadership Trust", and the national .> .Board of the Sierra Club has banned him from
    holding elective or .> .appointive office in the Sierra Club, I am not certain that his using .>
    .that title is appropriate. It would be if he had retired gracefully. .> . .> .Technically correct
    in a narrow sense, but not appropriate to use a .> ."former" title when one has been removed from
    that position for cause. .> .> You are LYING. The Board was required to drop that charge, for
    missing .their own .> deadline. And it was NOT "for cause", but for telling the truth. .> === .> I
    am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .>
    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande . .Mike, .Your website contains the statement "It is probably
    impossible to understand .my web page, if you own a car. .Or a mountain bike." I find 2 things
    interesting: (1) that you put it at .the bottom of your site and (2) that you said it all. Surely
    you know that .such arrogance is seen as nothing more than self-serving and idiotic. I own .a car
    and a mountain bike. I understand your views

    If you think so, then tell me what they are. This should be good!

    and I know you will lose .the argument because you do not, in spite of your education, understand
    .fundamental human nature. You don't get people to listen, much less .cooperate, by slapping them
    in the face.

    How have I "slapped you in the face"? You obviously lack some understanding, since you believe you
    have been slapped in the face. In reality, I only tell the truth. That's what mountain bikers
    consider a slap in the face. :)

    .PS .Watch those sentence fragments!

    Which ones?
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  19. Mll

    Mll Guest

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 07:50:40 -0400, "MLL" <reply.to.the.group.not.me>
    wrote:
    >
    > ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > .news:[email protected]... .> On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:36:13 GMT, Gary S.
    > <[email protected]> wrote: .> .> .On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:02:53 GMT, Mike Vandeman
    > <[email protected]> .> .wrote: .> . .> .>On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 02:33:19 GMT, "Richard Watts"
    > <[email protected]> .wrote: .> .> .> .>.MV's same old tirade has been published in the September
    > 2003 issue
    of
    > .> .>.Backpacker magazine. Page 26 asks the question: Should mountain
    bikes
    > .be .> .>.allowed on hiking trails? Of course MV says no. His argument
    against
    > .bikes .> .>.is the same as always; only the bikes are banned, not the bikers .Mountain .>
    > .>.bikes run over animals, etc.. .> .>. .> .>.The credit for his editorial lists him as Former
    > Chair, Wildlife .Committee, .> .>.San Fransisco Bay Chapter of the Sierra Club. I think maybe I'll
    let
    > .my .> .>.Sierra Club membership elapse after seeing that one. I wonder what .George .> .>.Dubya's
    > position on mountain biking is? .> .>. .> .Considering that he was removed from that position by
    > his local .> .chapter of the SC for "Breach of Leadership Trust", and the national .> .Board of
    > the Sierra Club has banned him from holding elective or .> .appointive office in the Sierra Club,
    > I am not certain that his using .> .that title is appropriate. It would be if he had retired
    > gracefully. .> . .> .Technically correct in a narrow sense, but not appropriate to use a .>
    > ."former" title when one has been removed from that position for cause. .> .> You are LYING. The
    > Board was required to drop that charge, for missing .their own .> deadline. And it was NOT "for
    > cause", but for telling the truth. .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is
    > off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years fighting
    > auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande . .Mike, .Your
    > website contains the statement "It is probably impossible to
    understand
    > .my web page, if you own a car. .Or a mountain bike." I find 2 things interesting: (1) that you
    > put it at .the bottom of your site and (2) that you said it all. Surely you know
    that
    > .such arrogance is seen as nothing more than self-serving and idiotic. I
    own
    > .a car and a mountain bike. I understand your views
    >
    > If you think so, then tell me what they are. This should be good!
    >
    > and I know you will lose .the argument because you do not, in spite of your education, understand
    > .fundamental human nature. You don't get people to listen, much less .cooperate, by slapping them
    > in the face.
    >
    > How have I "slapped you in the face"? You obviously lack some
    understanding,
    > since you believe you have been slapped in the face. In reality, I only
    tell the
    > truth. That's what mountain bikers consider a slap in the face. :)
    >
    > .PS .Watch those sentence fragments!
    >
    > Which ones?
    > ===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

    Mike, You're right. I own a car so I couldn't possibly understand your web site. Furthermore, I own
    a mountain bike and one who owns such a vehicle couldn't possibly understand your website. If I rid
    myself of the car and bike will I understand your website?

    Thanks for the chuckles.
     
  20. Mr. E. Mann

    Mr. E. Mann Guest

    Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 08:53:46 GMT, "Mr. E. Mann" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > ."Richard Watts" <[email protected]> wrote in .news:p[email protected]: .
    > .> MV's same old tirade has been published in the September 2003 issue of .> Backpacker magazine.
    > Page 26 asks the question: Should mountain bikes .> be allowed on hiking trails? . .Hey, How about
    > this! Should hikers be allowed on mountain bike trails! They .are usually the ones responsible for
    > most bike/pedestrian related .accedents.
    >
    > BS. If you weren't on a bike, there would have been no accident.

    HAhahahahahaha! You got kicked out of the Sierra Club. HAhahahahahahahaha! Pthththththtt!

    > I've been taken down by some idiot who side stepped right in .front of me while I was riding by.
    > Next time I going to run them down. .Maybe that will teach them a lesson. . . .<treehugger crap
    > snipped>
    >
    >===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
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