VDB



"HC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Notice that VDB's wrists are not shown in this video clip...
>
> http://www.zoomin.tv/videoplayer/?fuseaction=videolaunch&pid=vumnwsblad&id=274594&nbg=ftv
>
> Didn't he try to commit suicide recently by slitting his wrists with a
> butcher knife or was that Tyler Hamilton or Floyd or Michael Ball or
> Jonathan Page or Vanilla Gorilla that I'm thinking about?


Even in rbr there are, or should be, limits to what might be considered
appropriate material. Mental illness bad enough to drive someone to attempt
suicide just isn't funny. Many of us knew people who succeeded in doing so,
and it was only later that we learned the depths of their problems, and
wondered if there wasn't something we or someone could have done.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> "HC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Notice that VDB's wrists are not shown in this video clip...
>>
>>http://www.zoomin.tv/videoplayer/?fuseaction=videolaunch&pid=vumnwsblad&id=274594&nbg=ftv
>>
>>Didn't he try to commit suicide recently by slitting his wrists with a
>>butcher knife or was that Tyler Hamilton or Floyd or Michael Ball or
>>Jonathan Page or Vanilla Gorilla that I'm thinking about?

>
>
> Even in rbr there are, or should be, limits to what might be considered
> appropriate material. Mental illness bad enough to drive someone to attempt
> suicide just isn't funny. Many of us knew people who succeeded in doing so,
> and it was only later that we learned the depths of their problems, and
> wondered if there wasn't something we or someone could have done.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>



Why does suicide have to be due to mental illness? Why can't you just
want to kill yourself because you life is bad?

Do you think people who want to kill themselves because they are in
intractable pain and have a terminal illness are mentally ill?

Is a soldier who jumps on a grenade to save his fllow troops int he
foxhole mentally ill?

How about kamikazee pilots who otherwise would not have killed
themselves if there was no war?

VDB wants to kill himself because he was busted for doping and because
he can't win without doping and the new dope controls make that
impossible. So he k nows deep down inside he will never amount to
anything again. His wife left him because she knows he's a fraud.

And this is why VDB wants to kill himself, and not because he's
"mentally ill."

Thanks,

Magilla
 
MagillaGorilla wrote:

>
> Why does suicide have to be due to mental illness? Why can't you just
> want to kill yourself because you life is bad?
>
> Do you think people who want to kill themselves because they are in
> intractable pain and have a terminal illness are mentally ill?
>
> Is a soldier who jumps on a grenade to save his fllow troops int he
> foxhole mentally ill?
>
> How about kamikazee pilots who otherwise would not have killed
> themselves if there was no war?
>
> VDB wants to kill himself because he was busted for doping and because
> he can't win without doping and the new dope controls make that
> impossible. So he k nows deep down inside he will never amount to
> anything again. His wife left him because she knows he's a fraud.
>
> And this is why VDB wants to kill himself, and not because he's
> "mentally ill."


Ok, but maybe if you would stop reminding him of all that, he would be
happy again.

Anyway, I thought his wife left him because all the steroids shrunk his
package down to a very tiny size.

--
Bill Asher
 
On Jan 28, 11:52 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Even in rbr there are, or should be, limits to what might be considered
> appropriate material. Mental illness bad enough to drive someone to attempt
> suicide just isn't funny.


Surely you are smart enough to know you are just inviting a response
with this.
 
Didn't ****** commit suicide?


"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "HC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Notice that VDB's wrists are not shown in this video clip...
>>
>> http://www.zoomin.tv/videoplayer/?fuseaction=videolaunch&pid=vumnwsblad&id=274594&nbg=ftv
>>
>> Didn't he try to commit suicide recently by slitting his wrists with a
>> butcher knife or was that Tyler Hamilton or Floyd or Michael Ball or
>> Jonathan Page or Vanilla Gorilla that I'm thinking about?

>
> Even in rbr there are, or should be, limits to what might be considered
> appropriate material. Mental illness bad enough to drive someone to
> attempt suicide just isn't funny. Many of us knew people who succeeded in
> doing so, and it was only later that we learned the depths of their
> problems, and wondered if there wasn't something we or someone could have
> done.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
 
Relax is was just a joke.


"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "HC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Notice that VDB's wrists are not shown in this video clip...
>>
>> http://www.zoomin.tv/videoplayer/?fuseaction=videolaunch&pid=vumnwsblad&id=274594&nbg=ftv
>>
>> Didn't he try to commit suicide recently by slitting his wrists with a
>> butcher knife or was that Tyler Hamilton or Floyd or Michael Ball or
>> Jonathan Page or Vanilla Gorilla that I'm thinking about?

>
> Even in rbr there are, or should be, limits to what might be considered
> appropriate material. Mental illness bad enough to drive someone to
> attempt suicide just isn't funny. Many of us knew people who succeeded in
> doing so, and it was only later that we learned the depths of their
> problems, and wondered if there wasn't something we or someone could have
> done.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
 
>> Even in rbr there are, or should be, limits to what might be considered
>> appropriate material. Mental illness bad enough to drive someone to
>> attempt
>> suicide just isn't funny.

>
> Surely you are smart enough to know you are just inviting a response
> with this.


On rbr? That thought never crossed my mind.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
William Asher wrote:
> Anyway, I thought his wife left him because all the steroids shrunk his
> package down to a very tiny size.


At least he's improved his aerodynamics.
 
HC wrote:
> Didn't ****** commit suicide?


No, the aliens abducted him and used his DNA to create
mutant stem cells which then got transported around
France in blue cooler boxes on a motorbike.
 
On Jan 28, 10:39 am, MagillaGorilla <[email protected]> wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> > suicide just isn't funny. Many of us knew people who succeeded in doing so,
> > and it was only later that we learned the depths of their problems, and
> > wondered if there wasn't something we or someone could have done.


I feel that way about Rush Limbaugh.

>
> VDB wants to kill himself because he was busted for doping and because
> he can't win without doping and the new dope controls make that
> impossible.  So he k nows deep down inside he will never amount to
> anything again.  His wife left him because she knows he's a fraud.
>
> And this is why VDB wants to kill himself, and not because he's
> "mentally ill."


VDB was a headcase long before he got busted for doping.
If VDB wasn't such a headcase, he might have managed to
dope without getting dependent on characters like Dr. Mabuse
(remember him? A veritable babe in the woods compared to
the Fuentes operation.) Anyway, VDB didn't himself get
busted until 2002, by which time he'd already managed to
get himself no results for two years and leave four or five
teams in the lurch - some of those team splitups were long
before even the Dr. Mabuse business.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/search?q=vdb+headcase

http://www.trap-friis.dk/cykling/belgium.Vandenbroucke.htm

VDB's now spent 5 years in cycling actually winning races,
and almost 9 years flaking out. It's quite impressive in fact.
The boy is a career survivor, of a sort.

Ben
The VDB of astrophysics
 
[email protected] wrote:
> VDB was a headcase long before he got busted for doping.
> If VDB wasn't such a headcase, he might have managed to
> dope without getting dependent on characters like Dr. Mabuse


There was a strangely beautiful documentary on Belgian TV a week or so
ago, on VDB's annus mirabilis 1999. It was asserted that he was high
on love that year. He won at will in the Giro, all for Sarah.

There were interviews with different colleagues and people from the
entourage. Gaumont was pointed at to be the main bad guy with an
overbearing influence on VDB.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Gaumont


On youtube in 6 parts:
1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyiPhr2BzpA
2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lJ1tg8J38w
3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B-Xzw1p3i8
4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aCIr_-MiXM
5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSyAKc1RC0g
6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ4OCUD4A_M
 
Ted van de Weteringe wrote:
> There were interviews with different colleagues and people from the
> entourage.


Oh, and with VDB himself too. He seemed very balanced mentally but
leaning towards fatty masterdom. They filmed him up that cobbled
citadel climb where he won stage 19 in the Vuelta (yes Vuelta, not
Giro, sorry) and he was not flying anymore. In fact, in the words of
BVH: he appeared so sane that, were it not for the wheezing on the
climb, he would have offered him a contract immediately.

Ah well, better to be mens sana in corpore insano than the other way
around.
 
[email protected] wrote:

> On Jan 28, 10:39 am, MagillaGorilla <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>
>>
>>>suicide just isn't funny. Many of us knew people who succeeded in doing so,
>>>and it was only later that we learned the depths of their problems, and
>>>wondered if there wasn't something we or someone could have done.

>
>
> I feel that way about Rush Limbaugh.
>
>
>>VDB wants to kill himself because he was busted for doping and because
>>he can't win without doping and the new dope controls make that
>>impossible. So he k nows deep down inside he will never amount to
>>anything again. His wife left him because she knows he's a fraud.
>>
>>And this is why VDB wants to kill himself, and not because he's
>>"mentally ill."

>
>
> VDB was a headcase long before he got busted for doping.
> If VDB wasn't such a headcase, he might have managed to
> dope without getting dependent on characters like Dr. Mabuse
> (remember him? A veritable babe in the woods compared to
> the Fuentes operation.) Anyway, VDB didn't himself get
> busted until 2002, by which time he'd already managed to
> get himself no results for two years and leave four or five
> teams in the lurch - some of those team splitups were long
> before even the Dr. Mabuse business.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/search?q=vdb+headcase
>
> http://www.trap-friis.dk/cykling/belgium.Vandenbroucke.htm
>
> VDB's now spent 5 years in cycling actually winning races,
> and almost 9 years flaking out. It's quite impressive in fact.
> The boy is a career survivor, of a sort.
>
> Ben
> The VDB of astrophysics
>



I like how you make it sound like the only time VDB doped is when the
press outed him. The guy's been a doper since he was a junior and to
this day he still dopes.

Now that thhe doping controls make it almost impossible for him to get
away with it, and given the fact that he can't even be competitive when
he is doped, I think it's prety easy to deduce why he's been a headcase
for so long.

Magilla
 
On Jan 29, 7:51 am, MagillaGorilla <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:


> > VDB was a headcase long before he got busted for doping.
> > If VDB wasn't such a headcase, he might have managed to
> > dope without getting dependent on characters like Dr. Mabuse
> > (remember him? A veritable babe in the woods compared to
> > the Fuentes operation.) Anyway, VDB didn't himself get
> > busted until 2002, by which time he'd already managed to
> > get himself no results for two years and leave four or five
> > teams in the lurch - some of those team splitups were long
> > before even the Dr. Mabuse business.

>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/search?q=vdb+headcase

>
> >http://www.trap-friis.dk/cykling/belgium.Vandenbroucke.htm

>
> > VDB's now spent 5 years in cycling actually winning races,
> > and almost 9 years flaking out. It's quite impressive in fact.
> > The boy is a career survivor, of a sort.

>
> > Ben
> > The VDB of astrophysics

>
> I like how you make it sound like the only time VDB doped is when the
> press outed him. The guy's been a doper since he was a junior and to
> this day he still dopes.
>
> Now that thhe doping controls make it almost impossible for him to get
> away with it, and given the fact that he can't even be competitive when
> he is doped, I think it's prety easy to deduce why he's been a headcase
> for so long.


Apey,

Read more carefully. I didn't say anything like VDB was
ever clean. I said he was a headcase long before he got busted
(2002) and probably even before Mabuse got busted, given
VDB's serial team-switching and other antics. In any case
even after Mabuse got busted there were plenty of ways
to dope, and VDB could afford it. Yet after 1999 and
until his dog got busted for Clenbuterol (2002) he didn't
get squat, and that is because he was a headcase, not
because he mysteriously lost the ability to find a doping
doctor in Belgium.

There are of course still ways to dope, even w/o Dr. Fuentes'
help and the UCI on Blue Cooler watch. But to do it effectively
and not get caught, I assume you need good advice and at
least some discipline, and VDB seems to be lacking those.
Which is OK - doping effectively isn't the only goal of life.
Maybe he should retire, open a bike shop in Marblehead,
Flanders, give up on Sarah and shack up with a Belgian
chick from the frites stand down the road. There are worse things.

Ben
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a19fce89-850b-42cc-9daa-16ae6bbd9057@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Read more carefully. I didn't say anything like VDB was
> ever clean. I said he was a headcase long before he got busted
> (2002) and probably even before Mabuse got busted, given
> VDB's serial team-switching and other antics.


You really ought to be on someone's side. But I doubt that you would EVER
think that anyone is up to your standards because they're so high.
 
[email protected] wrote:

> On Jan 29, 7:51 am, MagillaGorilla <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>[email protected] wrote:

>
>
>>>VDB was a headcase long before he got busted for doping.
>>>If VDB wasn't such a headcase, he might have managed to
>>>dope without getting dependent on characters like Dr. Mabuse
>>>(remember him? A veritable babe in the woods compared to
>>>the Fuentes operation.) Anyway, VDB didn't himself get
>>>busted until 2002, by which time he'd already managed to
>>>get himself no results for two years and leave four or five
>>>teams in the lurch - some of those team splitups were long
>>>before even the Dr. Mabuse business.

>>
>>>http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/search?q=vdb+headcase

>>
>>>http://www.trap-friis.dk/cykling/belgium.Vandenbroucke.htm

>>
>>>VDB's now spent 5 years in cycling actually winning races,
>>>and almost 9 years flaking out. It's quite impressive in fact.
>>>The boy is a career survivor, of a sort.

>>
>>>Ben
>>>The VDB of astrophysics

>>
>>I like how you make it sound like the only time VDB doped is when the
>>press outed him. The guy's been a doper since he was a junior and to
>>this day he still dopes.
>>
>>Now that thhe doping controls make it almost impossible for him to get
>>away with it, and given the fact that he can't even be competitive when
>>he is doped, I think it's prety easy to deduce why he's been a headcase
>>for so long.

>
>
> Apey,
>
> Read more carefully. I didn't say anything like VDB was
> ever clean. I said he was a headcase long before he got busted
> (2002) and probably even before Mabuse got busted, given
> VDB's serial team-switching and other antics. In any case
> even after Mabuse got busted there were plenty of ways
> to dope, and VDB could afford it. Yet after 1999 and
> until his dog got busted for Clenbuterol (2002) he didn't
> get squat, and that is because he was a headcase, not
> because he mysteriously lost the ability to find a doping
> doctor in Belgium.



You got it backwards. VDB became a headcase because he couldn't
win any longer. This is what the facts support. There is no evidence
(other than you guessing) that he became a headcase before he stopped
winning. Sorry, but "switching teams" isn't a symptom of mental illness.

Same thing happened with Pantani. Had Pantani never been kicked out of
the Giro when he was winning or gotten his ass kicked in the Tour, he
would still be riding today and referring to himself in interviews in
the third person. Pantani imploded because he knew he would
never win again and his legacy was that of a doper.

Vandendouche switched teams because he couldn't win any longer and
because he felt he deserved more money and <fill in the blank>. After
he was busted by the cops and his infamous handcuff photo plastered all
over the papers in Belgian and his wife wanted to leave him because
he was viewed as a fraud by both his wife and the public, he imploded.

I never said he 'couldn't find a doping doctor in Belgian.' However,
you appear to want to attribute that to me so you can then go on to
refute something that I never even said.

What I said was his doping techniques were no longer as effective
(microdosing EPO isn't as good as taking massive injections leading up
to races and during races as he no doubt did prior to the implementation
of the EPO test in 2001).

VDB imploded because he was viewed as a fraud and his wife was getting
laughed at when she went shopping. Kinda like Haven Hamilton, I would
imagine, except nobody in the shopping malls in Boulder or Massachusetts
even knows who she or her husband are.


Magilla
 
On Jan 30, 8:21 pm, MagillaGorilla <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Jan 29, 7:51 am, MagillaGorilla <[email protected]> wrote:

>

Mags;

VDB's weirdness started soon after he turned pro. He tried to bail
from his uncle's team (Lotto) way before his contract was up or before
any significant wins. The controversy surrounding his departure is
ample evidence of his delusional and peripatetic nature.

Aside from that flaw, your knowledge of our sport is infallible.

OAO.