Vegan Bodybuilders??

David Cohen said:

"joni" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Will Brink piped up:

After joni said:

> "Several well known bodybuilders were vegetarians. The best known
> vegetarian bodybuilders are Bill Pearl (Mr. America, Mr. USA, and
> four times Mr. Universe)

He was not a vege when he competed. Try again.

"He won the professional Mr. Universe title in 1971, at the age of
41, **without the use of steroids and as a vegetarian.
"I have now
been vegetarian for almost 20 years."

You math skills are the equal of your medical knowledge.

Your amazingly consistent wrongness may require a new award. Idiot of
the Month just doesn't seem to capture your essence.

David

Are we over 500 yet?
--
-Larry

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Quoted message said:

"Proton Soup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Hi, All:

> Just wondering if anyone knows a "buffed" vegan. I doubt there are
any
> pro or even amateur vegan bodybuilders -- and by "vegan" I simply
mean
> no meat, but do allow for diary products (milk, eggs, etc.) -- but is
> it at least theoretically possible, or does muscle mass necessarily
> mean animal proteins, at least at that level of competition??

Your body doesn't care from what source it gets its protein from, only
that all the necessary amino acids are there when it needs them. And
since it's very easy to get plenty of protein/all the aminos from a
vegetarian diet, it's very possible. The limiting factor, a
generalization, is that most vegetarians tend to care about their
health and longevity much more than the heavy steriod-doping lab rats
who [dis]grace the covers of the muscle magazines.

Patrick

Have you considered the possibility that there are other things in
meat besides protein that are essential for good health in humans?

You mean like fiber and anti-oxidants?

Iron.

Fraser

Will Brink said:

Quoted message said:

Vegans do not consume any animal products. If a vegetarian allows

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dairy/egg products they are correctly called lacto-ovo vegetarians.
And yes there are some professional bodybuilders who eat this way.

Can you show us some?

Quoted message said:

"Several well known bodybuilders were vegetarians. The best known
vegetarian bodybuilders are Bill Pearl (Mr. America, Mr. USA, and

four

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

times Mr. Universe)

He was not a vege when he competed. Try again.

The one that sprang to mind for me was Albert Beckles, but more as an
exception to the rule rather than one of many or even several. Of
course if you allow dairy derived products as vegetables then
vegetarians can eat all the whey protein meal replacement products they
want.

MattLB

"Spungo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"The Gist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Jerry said:

NYC XYZ wrote:

> Hi, All:
>
> -- and by "vegan" I simply mean
> no meat, but do allow for diary products (milk, eggs, etc.)

That would be a vegetarian, not a vegan.

This guy is a total vegan, I believe.
http://www.mikemahler.com/
I don't think it is all that rare its just that not well documented
since the average joe sixpack [censored]-for-brains wouldn't be interested
and you'll find that makes up 99.99% of the fitness market.(hell,
99.99% of human society in general!!)

I should also add that this guy looks pretty crappy if you ask me. If
you told me that guy never lifted a single weight in his entire life,
I would have no problem believing you. That guys picture is pretty
much the typical picture of a Joe Sixpack.

You don't have a clue.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Will Brink said:

Quoted message said:

Vegans do not consume any animal products. If a vegetarian allows

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dairy/egg products they are correctly called lacto-ovo vegetarians.
And yes there are some professional bodybuilders who eat this way.

Can you show us some?

Quoted message said:

"Several well known bodybuilders were vegetarians. The best known
vegetarian bodybuilders are Bill Pearl (Mr. America, Mr. USA, and

four

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

times Mr. Universe)

He was not a vege when he competed. Try again.

The one that sprang to mind for me was Albert Beckles,

You have proof he was a life long vege eater? Spoke to him several times
and I don't recall him ever mentioning that.

Quoted message said:

but more as an
exception to the rule rather than one of many or even several.

If so, I would agree.

Quoted message said:

Of
course if you allow dairy derived products as vegetables then
vegetarians can eat all the whey protein meal replacement products they
want.

True, but there is some data that suggests meat is still superior, and
real world experience would agree with that. Considering the fact we are
ominivores, it would make sense.

Quoted message said:

MattLB

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

In article <[email hidden]>,

joni said:

Will Brink piped up:

After joni said:

Quoted message said:

"Several well known bodybuilders were vegetarians. The best known
vegetarian bodybuilders are Bill Pearl (Mr. America, Mr. USA, and
four times Mr. Universe)

He was not a vege when he competed. Try again.

"He won the professional Mr. Universe title in 1971, at the age of 41,
**without the use of steroids

Bwah ha hah ha. That's funny. Thanx.

Quoted message said:

and as a vegetarian** and is recognized
as one of the all-time greats of bodybuilding. Bill's diet is lacto-ovo
vegetarian, which means he eats eggs and dairy products.

You know as little about bodybuilding and nutrition as you do about
(fill in topic here), which is close to nothing.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

In article <[email hidden]>,

Spungo said:

"joni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Will Brink piped up:

After joni said:

> "Several well known bodybuilders were vegetarians. The best known
> vegetarian bodybuilders are Bill Pearl (Mr. America, Mr. USA, and
> four times Mr. Universe)

He was not a vege when he competed. Try again.

"He won the professional Mr. Universe title in 1971, at the age of 41,
**without the use of steroids and as a vegetarian** and is recognized
as one of the all-time greats of bodybuilding. Bill's diet is lacto-ovo
vegetarian, which means he eats eggs and dairy products.

Oh, so you admit he wasn't a vegetarian then? Good.

During the period he gained most of his muscle and competed, no, he was
not a vege eater. She on the other hand, is an idiot. I have also known
many a vege bodybuilder (something of an ox moron there) who after years
of being unable to add LBM, went back to meat eating only to find gains
of 5-15lbs of LBM in a few months.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

DZ said:

NYC XYZ said:

Hi, All:

From this introduction I infer with 80% probability that you're
Chinese.

For even longer threads and true horror, in addition to
sci.med.nutrition I recommend appending sci.astro and rec.music.opera
(Ask the Queen of C & J for more insight).

I refuse to respond to this obvious troll!

Will Brink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Will Brink said:

> Vegans do not consume any animal products. If a vegetarian

allows

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for

Quoted message said:

> dairy/egg products they are correctly called lacto-ovo

vegetarians.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> And yes there are some professional bodybuilders who eat this

way.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can you show us some?

>
> "Several well known bodybuilders were vegetarians. The best

known

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> vegetarian bodybuilders are Bill Pearl (Mr. America, Mr. USA,

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

four

Quoted message said:

> times Mr. Universe)

He was not a vege when he competed. Try again.

The one that sprang to mind for me was Albert Beckles,

You have proof he was a life long vege eater? Spoke to him several

times

Quoted message said:

and I don't recall him ever mentioning that.

No, no evidence at all, but it must have been mentioned in MuscleMag at
some point for it to have it lodged in my memory (and you know better
than me how reliable a source that might be). It does suggest here:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/bodybuilders/albert.htm

that he's vegetarian, but I don't know how reputable a website it is.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but more as an
exception to the rule rather than one of many or even several.

If so, I would agree.

Quoted message said:

Of
course if you allow dairy derived products as vegetables then
vegetarians can eat all the whey protein meal replacement products

they

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

want.

True, but there is some data that suggests meat is still superior,

and

Quoted message said:

real world experience would agree with that. Considering the fact we

are

Quoted message said:

ominivores, it would make sense.

Oh, I'm not disputing that. Humans have clearly evolved in a meat
eating environment. For bodybuilding in particular, the striking
effects of things like dietary creatine show the value of eating meat -
although vegetarians could consume synthetic creatine and still be
technically vegetarians I suppose.

MattLB

"Fraser Johnston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"[email hidden]"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Proton Soup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 4 Apr 2005 19:15:57 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

>NYC XYZ wrote:
>> Hi, All:
>
>> Just wondering if anyone knows a "buffed" vegan. I doubt there are
>any
>> pro or even amateur vegan bodybuilders -- and by "vegan" I simply
>mean
>> no meat, but do allow for diary products (milk, eggs, etc.) -- but is
>> it at least theoretically possible, or does muscle mass necessarily
>> mean animal proteins, at least at that level of competition??
>
>Your body doesn't care from what source it gets its protein from, only
>that all the necessary amino acids are there when it needs them. And
>since it's very easy to get plenty of protein/all the aminos from a
>vegetarian diet, it's very possible. The limiting factor, a
>generalization, is that most vegetarians tend to care about their
>health and longevity much more than the heavy steriod-doping lab rats
>who [dis]grace the covers of the muscle magazines.
>
>Patrick

Have you considered the possibility that there are other things in
meat besides protein that are essential for good health in humans?

You mean like fiber and anti-oxidants?

Iron.

You want iron? Eat whole baby clams.
There's a myth that red meat has the
most iron. Whole baby clams aren't red,
and they have a great deal of iron.
They also have a low calorie density--
under 1.0. They are the only animal
flesh I eat. I think that they border on the
insentient, so I don't have a problem
with thinking I've imposed suffering on
an animal.

George

Will Brink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roy Schestowitz said:

NYC XYZ said:

Hi, All:

Just wondering if anyone knows a "buffed" vegan.

Firstly, it should be possible, but it is harder.

Quoted message said:

I doubt there are any
pro or even amateur vegan bodybuilders

Hold on right there... having seen the rest of your question, I must
point out that so-called bodybuilders get their size from bloody steroids
and supplementation, not from meat.

Your point being? I have known several steroid using vege bodybuilders
who finally added meat back to their diet only to see increases in LBM.
Steroids are not magic.

I think the whole point of being a /vegetarian/ steroid lab rat is
ridiculous. Many of these people die before they turn 40, so what are they
worried about? Coronary issues when they are in their 60's? Meat sure has
its benefits, but 300 pound steroid freaks do not get their mass from just
a typical diet (i.e. diet in the form of proper food).

What I wanted to clarify to the OP is that so-called bodybuilders (since the
term was explicitly mentioned) are not about diet, but often about drugs
and supplements.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com

DZ said:

NYC XYZ said:

Hi, All:

From this introduction I infer with 80% probability that you're
Chinese.

LOL -- so we all sound alike, too?

Quoted message said:

For even longer threads and true horror, in addition to
sci.med.nutrition I recommend appending sci.astro and rec.music.opera
(Ask the Queen of C & J for more insight).

DZ

??

The Queen of Cans and Jars said:

I refuse to respond to this obvious troll!

?

Have I just walked into Hatfield and McCoy territory?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Oh, I'm not disputing that. Humans have clearly evolved in a meat
eating environment. For bodybuilding in particular, the striking
effects of things like dietary creatine show the value of eating meat -
although vegetarians could consume synthetic creatine and still be
technically vegetarians I suppose.

Yup, and as expected, studies find creatine is even more effective for
vegetarians. Just about everything one could want to know about creatine
found here BTW: http://www.creatine-report.com/

Yes, it's free...

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roy Schestowitz said:

Will Brink said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roy Schestowitz said:

NYC XYZ wrote:

> Hi, All:
>
> Just wondering if anyone knows a "buffed" vegan.

Firstly, it should be possible, but it is harder.

> I doubt there are any
> pro or even amateur vegan bodybuilders

Hold on right there... having seen the rest of your question, I must
point out that so-called bodybuilders get their size from bloody steroids
and supplementation, not from meat.

Your point being? I have known several steroid using vege bodybuilders
who finally added meat back to their diet only to see increases in LBM.
Steroids are not magic.

I think the whole point of being a /vegetarian/ steroid lab rat is
ridiculous.

Are you under the impression anyone cares what you think? If so, get
over it.

Quoted message said:

Many of these people die before they turn 40, so what are they
worried about? Coronary issues when they are in their 60's? Meat sure has
its benefits, but 300 pound steroid freaks do not get their mass from just
a typical diet (i.e. diet in the form of proper food).

Oh boy, we got us a stupid one here.

Quoted message said:

What I wanted to clarify to the OP is that so-called bodybuilders (since the
term was explicitly mentioned) are not about diet, but often about drugs
and supplements.

They are "about" all the above actually as well as diet, training, and
above all, their genes.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

Roy Schestowitz said:

<SNIP>

What I wanted to clarify to the OP is that so-called bodybuilders

(since the

Quoted message said:

term was explicitly mentioned) are not about diet, but often about

drugs

Quoted message said:

and supplements.

I'm curious...is there a "clean" bodybuilder, then? I have a good
physique as it is -- like Batman instead of Superman, if you know what
I mean (LOL) -- but I'm curious how far I can safely push myself...I'm
curious, since I'm 33 and really feeling my mortality (LOL) so I wanna
find out before I head downhill...I'm wondering if where I am now is
basically the upper limit of "natural" bodybuilding (that is, any
achievement to be made will be within the same class or league, as
opposed to moving between classes or levels of phsyical development),
or if with a better diet, etc., there is a whole new "plateau" in store
for me.

Just curious, that's all...things to do before a mid-life crisis! =)

Quoted message said:

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:06:29 -0400,
"[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

"Fraser Johnston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"[email hidden]"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Proton Soup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On 4 Apr 2005 19:15:57 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:
>
>>NYC XYZ wrote:
>>> Hi, All:
>>
>>> Just wondering if anyone knows a "buffed" vegan. I doubt there are
>>any
>>> pro or even amateur vegan bodybuilders -- and by "vegan" I simply
>>mean
>>> no meat, but do allow for diary products (milk, eggs, etc.) -- but is
>>> it at least theoretically possible, or does muscle mass necessarily
>>> mean animal proteins, at least at that level of competition??
>>
>>Your body doesn't care from what source it gets its protein from, only
>>that all the necessary amino acids are there when it needs them. And
>>since it's very easy to get plenty of protein/all the aminos from a
>>vegetarian diet, it's very possible. The limiting factor, a
>>generalization, is that most vegetarians tend to care about their
>>health and longevity much more than the heavy steriod-doping lab rats
>>who [dis]grace the covers of the muscle magazines.
>>
>>Patrick
>
> Have you considered the possibility that there are other things in
> meat besides protein that are essential for good health in humans?

You mean like fiber and anti-oxidants?

Iron.

You want iron? Eat whole baby clams.
There's a myth that red meat has the
most iron. Whole baby clams aren't red,
and they have a great deal of iron.
They also have a low calorie density--
under 1.0. They are the only animal
flesh I eat. I think that they border on the
insentient, so I don't have a problem
with thinking I've imposed suffering on
an animal.

George

Well sure, go ahead if that makes you feel better. Are you Catholic?
They don't like to consider fish as meat, either. It's still an
animal and feels pain. Come to think of it, I had a 'vegan' English
teacher once who was the same. Wouldn't eat anything with a face, but
occasionally, his biology would kick in, and he'd give in and eat some
seafood to quell his insatiable hunger for flesh. And then talk
himself out of the guilt, of course.

-----------
Proton Soup

"And all this peace has been deceiving,
I need some wind to get me sailing"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Proton Soup said:

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:06:29 -0400,
"[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

"Fraser Johnston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"[email hidden]"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> "Proton Soup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>> On 4 Apr 2005 19:15:57 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:
>>
>>>NYC XYZ wrote:
>>>> Hi, All:
>>>
>>>> Just wondering if anyone knows a "buffed" vegan. I doubt there are
>>>any
>>>> pro or even amateur vegan bodybuilders -- and by "vegan" I simply
>>>mean
>>>> no meat, but do allow for diary products (milk, eggs, etc.) -- but is
>>>> it at least theoretically possible, or does muscle mass necessarily
>>>> mean animal proteins, at least at that level of competition??
>>>
>>>Your body doesn't care from what source it gets its protein from, only
>>>that all the necessary amino acids are there when it needs them. And
>>>since it's very easy to get plenty of protein/all the aminos from a
>>>vegetarian diet, it's very possible. The limiting factor, a
>>>generalization, is that most vegetarians tend to care about their
>>>health and longevity much more than the heavy steriod-doping lab rats
>>>who [dis]grace the covers of the muscle magazines.
>>>
>>>Patrick
>>
>> Have you considered the possibility that there are other things in
>> meat besides protein that are essential for good health in humans?
>
> You mean like fiber and anti-oxidants?

Iron.

You want iron? Eat whole baby clams.
There's a myth that red meat has the
most iron. Whole baby clams aren't red,
and they have a great deal of iron.
They also have a low calorie density--
under 1.0. They are the only animal
flesh I eat. I think that they border on the
insentient, so I don't have a problem
with thinking I've imposed suffering on
an animal.

George

Well sure, go ahead if that makes you feel better. Are you Catholic?
They don't like to consider fish as meat, either. It's still an
animal and feels pain. Come to think of it, I had a 'vegan' English
teacher once who was the same. Wouldn't eat anything with a face, but
occasionally, his biology would kick in, and he'd give in and eat some
seafood to quell his insatiable hunger for flesh. And then talk
himself out of the guilt, of course.

My friend had this girl friend who wouldn't eat anything that sweats. So
chicken and fish was okay, but beef and pork wouldn't do. Her theory had
something to do with the animal feeling pain. So we found some research
that suggested plants send out s signal very similar to a nervous
reaction to pain when they are damaged. We'd tell her to think of the
pain of the cocoa plant next time she had some chocolates.

Naturally it was a short relationship for my friend.

--
Keith

NYC XYZ said:

I'm curious...is there a "clean" bodybuilder, then? I have a good

If you're talking about the freaks in muscle comics, probably not. There are
people with good physiques and also people with good muscular development who
are required to be available for tests under rules of competition. For
example, track and field athletes. Especially at a college level, before they
turn pro and get a lot of money, it's harder to acquire drugs. College
shot-putters are pretty huge, college sprinters are muscular and very ripped.
There are very few athletes (I suspect, none) who compete in federations that
require their athletes to be available for drug tests who are both
as big as an olympic shot putter AND as ripped as an olympic sprinter. Go
figure.

Quoted message said:

physique as it is -- like Batman instead of Superman, if you know what
I mean (LOL) -- but I'm curious how far I can safely push myself...I'm

You're confusing different issues -- what's possible for any human on the
planet and what's possible for you. Read what Brink has posted -- one of the
key ingredients for success in any task is inherent ability. It's not enough to
just want it really really badly. For example, take a highly succesful
shotputter. Doesn't matter how badly this guy wants it, a 4 minute mile is
probably "not possible" for him. Now you could be one of those rare specimens
with the genetics of a pro-bodybuilder -- or, more likely, you're pretty
average. If you were exceptional, you would have found out by now.

Another thing -- "safely" push yourself ? What is "unsafe" about working
your ass off in the gym. Go for it. What are you afraid of ?

Quoted message said:

curious, since I'm 33 and really feeling my mortality (LOL) so I wanna
find out before I head downhill...I'm wondering if where I am now is
basically the upper limit of "natural" bodybuilding (that is, any

Again, you seem to be confusing your own limits with those of others.

Now about ovo-lacto vegetarian diets -- unlike a lot of the people blowing
smoke in this forum, I've tried training both with and without such a diet.
Didn't make any discernable difference. Just get yourself some whey powder, get
plenty of protein. If you're not attentive to this, you will not get enough
protein on an OL-vegetarian diet.

Otherwise don't worry too much. Train hard, sleep, get enough food, be
consistent and patient.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Spungo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"The Gist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Jerry wrote:
> NYC XYZ wrote:
>
>> Hi, All:
>>
>> -- and by "vegan" I simply mean
>> no meat, but do allow for diary products (milk, eggs, etc.)
>
>
> That would be a vegetarian, not a vegan.
>
>
This guy is a total vegan, I believe.
http://www.mikemahler.com/
I don't think it is all that rare its just that not well documented
since the average joe sixpack [censored]-for-brains wouldn't be interested and
you'll find that makes up 99.99% of the fitness market.(hell, 99.99% of
human society in general!!)

I should also add that this guy looks pretty crappy if you ask me. If you
told me that guy never lifted a single weight in his entire life, I would
have no problem believing you. That guys picture is pretty much the
typical picture of a Joe Sixpack.

You don't have a clue.

I've seen lots of people in my life (must be at least a million by now), and
that guy is just about as average as it gets. What are those, about 15"
biceps? Ha!