Vegan technique

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by David Hare-Scott, Mar 13, 2006.

  1. I posted this on a vegan NG but the activity was so low I didn't get much
    back.

    I like to to serve good food that is according to the tastes and preferences
    of my guests. If I am to cook vegetarian food without eggs I have some
    problems with technique. This is probably due to my lack of experience in
    vegetarian cooking so I am asking the more experienced for help.

    Eggs are useful in binding foods as the protein coalgulates on cooking. For
    example vegetable patties, rissoles and slices are going to be harder to
    keep cohesive with no eggs.

    Similarly eggs act as an emulsifying agent allowing one to bind oily and
    watery components together in sauces and dressings (with or without
    cooking). Dairy products can also bind sauces but such are also eschewed by
    vegans.
    You can bind sauces in some cases using vegetable purees and with starches
    but these rather limit your scope and will add flavours that may not be
    desired in all situations.

    Egg foams are also the basis of a number classes of foods, many (but not
    all) are desserts and treats. One can give up such things altogether in the
    name of health but even those who take great care with their diet may want
    to have a small indulgence sometimes on special days.

    Can I do these sorts of things without eggs or dairy (if so how) or does
    cooking vegan mean certain techniques, and hence certain classes of foods,
    are not possible? .


    David
     
    Tags:


  2. David Hare-Scott wrote:

    > Eggs are useful in binding foods as the protein coalgulates on cooking. For
    > example vegetable patties, rissoles and slices are going to be harder to
    > keep cohesive with no eggs.
    >
    > Similarly eggs act as an emulsifying agent allowing one to bind oily and
    > watery components together in sauces and dressings (with or without
    > cooking). Dairy products can also bind sauces but such are also eschewed by
    > vegans.
    > You can bind sauces in some cases using vegetable purees and with starches
    > but these rather limit your scope and will add flavours that may not be
    > desired in all situations.
    >
    > Egg foams are also the basis of a number classes of foods, many (but not
    > all) are desserts and treats. One can give up such things altogether in the
    > name of health but even those who take great care with their diet may want
    > to have a small indulgence sometimes on special days.
    >
    > Can I do these sorts of things without eggs or dairy (if so how) or does
    > cooking vegan mean certain techniques, and hence certain classes of foods,
    > are not possible? .



    The quick answer to your question is tofu. The medium-size answer to
    your question is _Natural Foods Cookbook: Vegetarian Dairy-Free Cuisine_
    by Mary Estella. The long answer to your question is that you need
    whole new recipes for familiar dishes; no single substitution or set of
    rules is going to do it.


    For sauces, you can usually get away with throwing a chunk of tofu in
    the blender along with the other ingredients. You get the emulsion and
    texture. These sauces aren't perfect at high temps, but they're pretty
    good.


    For places where you normally use egg foams, you might try heating agar
    in fruit juices, cooling until it hardens, then blending the whole thing
    to incorporate air.


    Tofu sometimes can work instead of eggs in cakes. Soymilk instead of
    dairy milk.


    For the vegetable patties, I suggest beans.


    --Lia
     
  3. Bubba

    Bubba Guest

    My preference and taste is for MEAT (like 90% of the people out there).
    Would you take that into account?


    "David Hare-Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I posted this on a vegan NG but the activity was so low I didn't get much
    > back.
    >
    > I like to to serve good food that is according to the tastes and
    > preferences
    > of my guests. If I am to cook vegetarian food without eggs I have some
    > problems with technique. This is probably due to my lack of experience in
    > vegetarian cooking so I am asking the more experienced for help.
    >
    > Eggs are useful in binding foods as the protein coalgulates on cooking.
    > For
    > example vegetable patties, rissoles and slices are going to be harder to
    > keep cohesive with no eggs.
    >
    > Similarly eggs act as an emulsifying agent allowing one to bind oily and
    > watery components together in sauces and dressings (with or without
    > cooking). Dairy products can also bind sauces but such are also eschewed
    > by
    > vegans.
    > You can bind sauces in some cases using vegetable purees and with starches
    > but these rather limit your scope and will add flavours that may not be
    > desired in all situations.
    >
    > Egg foams are also the basis of a number classes of foods, many (but not
    > all) are desserts and treats. One can give up such things altogether in
    > the
    > name of health but even those who take great care with their diet may want
    > to have a small indulgence sometimes on special days.
    >
    > Can I do these sorts of things without eggs or dairy (if so how) or does
    > cooking vegan mean certain techniques, and hence certain classes of foods,
    > are not possible? .
    >
    >
    > David
    >
    >
     
  4. Default User

    Default User Guest

    Bubba wrote:

    > My preference and taste is for MEAT (like 90% of the people out
    > there). Would you take that into account?


    Why, are you going over there to eat?



    Brian

    --
    If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
    won't shut up.
    -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
     
  5. Marc

    Marc Guest

    I say let them eat cake!

    Marc

    "Default User" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Bubba wrote:
    >
    > > My preference and taste is for MEAT (like 90% of the people out
    > > there). Would you take that into account?

    >
    > Why, are you going over there to eat?
    >
    >
    >
    > Brian
    >
    > --
    > If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
    > won't shut up.
    > -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
     
  6. Mark Thorson

    Mark Thorson Guest

    David Hare-Scott wrote:
    >
    > Eggs are useful in binding foods as the protein coalgulates
    > on cooking. For example vegetable patties, rissoles and slices
    > are going to be harder to keep cohesive with no eggs.
    >
    > Similarly eggs act as an emulsifying agent allowing one
    > to bind oily and watery components together in sauces and
    > dressings (with or without cooking).


    Eggs have these properties because they contain lecithin.
    At Whole Foods or health-food stores, you can buy vegan
    soy lecithin, which can substitute for eggs. It is
    available in both solid and liquid form.
     
  7. "David Hare-Scott" <[email protected]> hitched up their panties and
    posted news:[email protected]:

    > I posted this on a vegan NG but the activity was so low I didn't get
    > much back.



    I really wish I could help you out but I can't. I'm a carnivore... BIG
    TIME carnivore. Mostly in this ng we discuss pork, beef, chicken etc. We
    also discuss a lot of other things but vegetarian dishes don't come up that
    often. Sorry.

    Michael

    --
    "The most remarkable thing about my mother is that for thirty years she
    served the family nothing but leftovers. The original meal has never been
    found."

    --Calvin Trillin
     
  8. The Bubbo

    The Bubbo Guest

    David Hare-Scott wrote:
    > I posted this on a vegan NG but the activity was so low I didn't get much
    > back.
    >
    > I like to to serve good food that is according to the tastes and preferences
    > of my guests. If I am to cook vegetarian food without eggs I have some
    > problems with technique. This is probably due to my lack of experience in
    > vegetarian cooking so I am asking the more experienced for help.
    >
    > Eggs are useful in binding foods as the protein coalgulates on cooking. For
    > example vegetable patties, rissoles and slices are going to be harder to
    > keep cohesive with no eggs.
    >
    > Similarly eggs act as an emulsifying agent allowing one to bind oily and
    > watery components together in sauces and dressings (with or without
    > cooking). Dairy products can also bind sauces but such are also eschewed by
    > vegans.
    > You can bind sauces in some cases using vegetable purees and with starches
    > but these rather limit your scope and will add flavours that may not be
    > desired in all situations.
    >
    > Egg foams are also the basis of a number classes of foods, many (but not
    > all) are desserts and treats. One can give up such things altogether in the
    > name of health but even those who take great care with their diet may want
    > to have a small indulgence sometimes on special days.
    >
    > Can I do these sorts of things without eggs or dairy (if so how) or does
    > cooking vegan mean certain techniques, and hence certain classes of foods,
    > are not possible? .
    >
    >
    > David
    >
    >


    I highly recommend the cookbook from the Millenium Restaurant in San
    Francisco. The food is excellent, it's completely vegan and there are great
    methods for substituting eggs and whatnot. It's got everything from 'caeser'
    dressing to tempura 'piccata' and so on, even seitan brats.

    I love this book and use it a lot and I am not vegan or even vegetarian.

    --
    ..:Heather:.
    www.velvet-c.com
    Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!
     
  9. Jude

    Jude Guest

    Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:
    > "David Hare-Scott" <[email protected]> hitched up their panties and
    > posted news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > I posted this on a vegan NG but the activity was so low I didn't get
    > > much back.

    >
    >
    > I really wish I could help you out but I can't. I'm a carnivore... BIG
    > TIME carnivore. Mostly in this ng we discuss pork, beef, chicken etc. We
    > also discuss a lot of other things but vegetarian dishes don't come up that
    > often. Sorry.
    >
    > Michael


    I'd have to disagree. I don't eat pork, beef, or chicken. I'm a
    vegetarian, with the exception of eating some seafood. (I've got a new
    name for it. I'm a Lenten Friday Vegetarian. No meat, but fish okay.)

    I find plenty of ideas for things that are inherently meatless
    (recently: coleslaw, maple oatmeal cookies, salad dressing, potato
    kugel, asparagus with black beans and garlic sauce, alfredo sauce <g>,
    baked french toast, peanut brittle, etc) and things that can easily be
    made meatless with minor adaptations (split pea soup, stir fry with
    interesting sauces, quiche, the occasional hotdish. ).

    You meed to read the subject headers carefully and it's easy to know
    which threads to skip. Yoy also learn whose posts to look for - serene
    and heather both make and talk about many meatless items.

    It's not that we SPECIFICALLY discuss vegetarian food, it's more that
    meatless dishes are part of the grand scope of gastronomic pleasure,
    and they do come up incidentally. You just gotta look for em.
     
  10. notbob

    notbob Guest

    On 2006-03-14, Jude <[email protected]> wrote:


    > I'm a
    > vegetarian, with the exception of eating some seafood. (I've got a new
    > name for it. I'm a Lenten Friday Vegetarian. No meat, but fish okay.)


    Yeah, I'm vegetarian, too. ...except for fish, too.

    Oh... and chicken, sometimes chicken. Well, maybe some beef, now and
    then ...n' pork. Yeah, pork. But, hardly ever yak. I draw the line
    at kangaroo and wombat. But yeah ...I'm a vegetarian. :\

    nb
     
  11. Peter Aitken

    Peter Aitken Guest

    "Jude" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:
    >> "David Hare-Scott" <[email protected]> hitched up their panties and
    >> posted news:[email protected]:
    >>
    >> > I posted this on a vegan NG but the activity was so low I didn't get
    >> > much back.

    >>
    >>
    >> I really wish I could help you out but I can't. I'm a carnivore... BIG
    >> TIME carnivore. Mostly in this ng we discuss pork, beef, chicken etc.
    >> We
    >> also discuss a lot of other things but vegetarian dishes don't come up
    >> that
    >> often. Sorry.
    >>
    >> Michael

    >
    > I'd have to disagree. I don't eat pork, beef, or chicken. I'm a
    > vegetarian, with the exception of eating some seafood. (I've got a new
    > name for it. I'm a Lenten Friday Vegetarian. No meat, but fish okay.)
    >


    Fish are meat. You cannot be a vegetarian if you eat fish. When will people
    get this through their skulls? It's like saying that you are a virgin with
    the exception tha you have sex on Fridays.


    --
    Peter Aitken
     
  12. Jude

    Jude Guest

    notbob wrote:
    > On 2006-03-14, Jude <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    > > I'm a
    > > vegetarian, with the exception of eating some seafood. (I've got a new
    > > name for it. I'm a Lenten Friday Vegetarian. No meat, but fish okay.)

    >
    > Yeah, I'm vegetarian, too. ...except for fish, too.
    >
    > Oh... and chicken, sometimes chicken. Well, maybe some beef, now and
    > then ...n' pork. Yeah, pork. But, hardly ever yak. I draw the line
    > at kangaroo and wombat. But yeah ...I'm a vegetarian. :\
    >
    > nb


    Well, good for you, notbob. Your rules are a litle looser than mine,
    but seeing as how its your life, you go ahead and call yourself anythig
    you feel appropriate. I bet you're much healthier than many people, if
    you follow any type of vegetarian diet. It's a good way to keep your
    vitamin, mineral, fiber intake high and your cholesterol low. Generally
    low calorie and definitely doctor approved. More people should try it.

    Laughing all the way to your funeral, nb.
     
  13. notbob

    notbob Guest

    On 2006-03-14, Jude <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Laughing all the way to your funeral, nb.


    You, too? Nice to know you can laugh at something.

    nb
     
  14. RoR

    RoR Guest

    On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:23:55 GMT, "David Hare-Scott" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I posted this on a vegan NG but the activity was so low I didn't get much
    >back.
    >
    >I like to to serve good food that is according to the tastes and preferences
    >of my guests. If I am to cook vegetarian food without eggs I have some
    >problems with technique. This is probably due to my lack of experience in
    >vegetarian cooking so I am asking the more experienced for help.
    >
    >Eggs are useful in binding foods as the protein coalgulates on cooking. For
    >example vegetable patties, rissoles and slices are going to be harder to
    >keep cohesive with no eggs.
    >
    >Similarly eggs act as an emulsifying agent allowing one to bind oily and
    >watery components together in sauces and dressings (with or without
    >cooking). Dairy products can also bind sauces but such are also eschewed by
    >vegans.
    >You can bind sauces in some cases using vegetable purees and with starches
    >but these rather limit your scope and will add flavours that may not be
    >desired in all situations.
    >
    >Egg foams are also the basis of a number classes of foods, many (but not
    >all) are desserts and treats. One can give up such things altogether in the
    >name of health but even those who take great care with their diet may want
    >to have a small indulgence sometimes on special days.
    >
    >Can I do these sorts of things without eggs or dairy (if so how) or does
    >cooking vegan mean certain techniques, and hence certain classes of foods,
    >are not possible? .
    >
    >
    >David
    >

    One thing I do is use "Egg Replacer". While not always effective, you do need to exercise
    judgment and you will need to experiment with recipes, it works well most of the time.
    Look for vegan recipes, there are many of them on the net.

    My son is a vegan and I try to accommodate him as much as possible in my cooking, I'm
    definitely not a vegan, but some dishes just cannot be "converted." Some of the vegan
    recipes work well, yielding dishes that look good and have good texture, but little flavor
    - or, at least, more subtle flavors than I want. Spices and herbs really help in this
    case.

    Good luck, while I cannot eat vegan, I respect the efforts it takes to be vegan. Don't
    forget the fats, even vegans need fats.





    --
    Rick R
    [email protected]ult
    replace default with com to email
     
  15. Jude

    Jude Guest

    .. I'm a Lenten Friday Vegetarian. No meat, but fish okay.)
    > >

    >
    > Fish are meat. You cannot be a vegetarian if you eat fish. When will people
    > get this through their skulls? It's like saying that you are a virgin with
    > the exception tha you have sex on Fridays.
    >
    >



    Tell the catholic church that. You can't eat meat on Fridays during
    lent, but you can eat all the fish you want.

    I've never stated that I am a vegetarian. If you can actually read, you
    will see that I always tell people that I am a vegetarian but that I
    also eat seafood.

    Ya see, that's a lot easier, and less wordy, than telling people that I
    don't eat red meat, pork products, lamb, or poultry, or any
    meat-by-products and will you please check the soup for chicken broth
    and the pie crust for lard? If I say vegetarian who eats seafood, it
    cuts to the chase. People pretty much know what I do and don't eat. I
    have my reasons for the way my diet is structured. But the fact is,
    that phrase usually saves me all these damn words you're making me
    write here.

    Besides, I've never understood these people who so passionately concern
    themselves with the way I refer to MY dietary habits. Don't you have
    something better to do with your life?
     
  16. Peter Aitken

    Peter Aitken Guest

    "Jude" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >. I'm a Lenten Friday Vegetarian. No meat, but fish okay.)
    >> >

    >>
    >> Fish are meat. You cannot be a vegetarian if you eat fish. When will
    >> people
    >> get this through their skulls? It's like saying that you are a virgin
    >> with
    >> the exception tha you have sex on Fridays.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > Tell the catholic church that. You can't eat meat on Fridays during
    > lent, but you can eat all the fish you want.
    >


    The catholic church has an incorrect definition of meat, so what?

    > I've never stated that I am a vegetarian. If you can actually read, you
    > will see that I always tell people that I am a vegetarian but that I
    > also eat seafood.


    Please read what you just said. First "I've never stated that I am a
    vegetarian" and then "I always tell people that I am a vegetarian."

    >
    > Ya see, that's a lot easier, and less wordy, than telling people that I
    > don't eat red meat, pork products, lamb, or poultry, or any
    > meat-by-products and will you please check the soup for chicken broth
    > and the pie crust for lard? If I say vegetarian who eats seafood, it
    > cuts to the chase. People pretty much know what I do and don't eat. I
    > have my reasons for the way my diet is structured. But the fact is,
    > that phrase usually saves me all these damn words you're making me
    > write here.


    How about saying "I eat vegetarian most of the time but also eat fish
    sometimes."

    You don't seem to realize that you simply cannot be a vegetarian and eat
    fish. A vegetarian is defined as someone who does not eat animal flesh. The
    phrase "vegetarian who eats seafood" is like "teetotaler who drinks wine" or
    "tall person who is short" or "male person who is female."

    > Besides, I've never understood these people who so passionately concern
    > themselves with the way I refer to MY dietary habits. Don't you have
    > something better to do with your life?


    If I were using a word in an ignorant and foolish way I would like to be
    corrected. I care about the English language. When you describe yourself as
    a vegetarian who eats seafood, it just sounds foolish to anyone who knows
    what "vegetarian" means. Apparently you don't care.

    Peter Aitken
     
  17. Dee Randall

    Dee Randall Guest

    "Jude" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >. I'm a Lenten Friday Vegetarian. No meat, but fish okay.)
    >> >

    >>
    >> Fish are meat. You cannot be a vegetarian if you eat fish. When will
    >> people
    >> get this through their skulls? It's like saying that you are a virgin
    >> with
    >> the exception tha you have sex on Fridays.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > Tell the catholic church that. You can't eat meat on Fridays during
    > lent, but you can eat all the fish you want.
    >
    > I've never stated that I am a vegetarian. If you can actually read, you
    > will see that I always tell people that I am a vegetarian but that I
    > also eat seafood.
    >
    > Ya see, that's a lot easier, and less wordy, than telling people that I
    > don't eat red meat, pork products, lamb, or poultry, or any
    > meat-by-products and will you please check the soup for chicken broth
    > and the pie crust for lard? If I say vegetarian who eats seafood, it
    > cuts to the chase. People pretty much know what I do and don't eat. I
    > have my reasons for the way my diet is structured. But the fact is,
    > that phrase usually saves me all these damn words you're making me
    > write here.
    >
    > Besides, I've never understood these people who so passionately concern
    > themselves with the way I refer to MY dietary habits. Don't you have
    > something better to do with your life?


    I enjoyed your explanation. It is a mystery to me, too, why the word,
    "vegetarian" gets so much rise. There are other subjects like that that get
    people a-goin'.
    Dee Dee
     
  18. David Hare-Scott wrote:
    >
    > I like to to serve good food that is according to the tastes and preferences
    > of my guests. If I am to cook vegetarian food without eggs I have some
    > problems with technique. This is probably due to my lack of experience in
    > vegetarian cooking so I am asking the more experienced for help.


    General advice: don't try and "convert" too many things to being
    vegan. Simply cook things that are vegan in the first place. Indian
    cooking in general is a great place to start - most of it is vegatarian
    and near vegan. Replacing ghee with vegan fats goes a long way...

    > Eggs are useful in binding foods as the protein coalgulates on cooking. For
    > example vegetable patties, rissoles and slices are going to be harder to
    > keep cohesive with no eggs.
    >
    > Similarly eggs act as an emulsifying agent allowing one to bind oily and
    > watery components together in sauces and dressings (with or without
    > cooking). Dairy products can also bind sauces but such are also eschewed by
    > vegans.
    > You can bind sauces in some cases using vegetable purees and with starches
    > but these rather limit your scope and will add flavours that may not be
    > desired in all situations.
    >


    The main emulsifier in eggs in lecithin - you can get plain lecithin
    that is derived from soy.

    > Egg foams are also the basis of a number classes of foods, many (but not
    > all) are desserts and treats. One can give up such things altogether in the
    > name of health but even those who take great care with their diet may want
    > to have a small indulgence sometimes on special days.


    Rice pudding is just fine made with soy milk, and is better made with
    coconut milk than dairy milk. Coconut milk is good substitute for
    dairy milk and/or cream for a great number of dishes - in many cases it
    is superior.

    >
    > Can I do these sorts of things without eggs or dairy (if so how) or does
    > cooking vegan mean certain techniques, and hence certain classes of foods,
    > are not possible? .
    >


    The main things that really need eggs are many types of cakes,
    pastries, and puddings. For the cakes, just avoid them. For the
    pastries, limit yourself to ones not needing eggs. For the puddings,
    make ones thickened with vegan gelatin, flour, cornstarch, or tapioca -
    their are pleny to choose from. Many things that call for milk or
    cream can be made with some combination of soy milk, coconut milk,
    almond milk, or rice milk. Tofu is also usefull as a thickener when
    mashed/blended.

    Later,
    Mark Muller
     
  19. Jude

    Jude Guest

    Dee Randall wrote:


    > I enjoyed your explanation. It is a mystery to me, too, why the word,
    > "vegetarian" gets so much rise. There are other subjects like that that get
    > people a-goin'.
    > Dee Dee


    Well, maybe they'll like my new label better. How do you like the ring
    of Lenten Friday Vegetarian? =)
     
  20. Dee Randall

    Dee Randall Guest

    "Jude" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Dee Randall wrote:
    >
    >
    >> I enjoyed your explanation. It is a mystery to me, too, why the word,
    >> "vegetarian" gets so much rise. There are other subjects like that that
    >> get
    >> people a-goin'.
    >> Dee Dee

    >
    > Well, maybe they'll like my new label better. How do you like the ring
    > of Lenten Friday Vegetarian? =)


    Say it fast and with your mouth full -- "no one will pay you no mind."
    Dee Dee
     
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