Vegetable oil for your chain - WHY NOT?

[John Henderson]

BigBen wrote:

> BTW, do you find that Ester oil makes your chain last longer?
> (That's with, or without, regular chain cleaning?)

I don't know. I always keep one or two cleaned and lubricated
chains ready to swap over when the chain in use becomes noisy
or slack enough to require adjustment (internal-gear hub). And
I don't record milages at swaps for these individual chains.

But more importantly, I find the chain life depends greatly on
how clean it's kept. And that's a function of weather and how
muddy or dusty a surface I'm riding on.

John

 

[[email protected]]

On 14 Aug 2006 13:17:18 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On 11 Aug 2006 13:29:53 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>> >[email protected] wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Just as you can't turn a cat into a vegetarian, you can't run those
>> >> waspish little glow-plug engines very well without castor oil.
>> >>
>> >Dear Carl,
>> >
>> >You can, in fact, turn a cat into a vegetarian.
>> >
>> >Cheers,
>> >Doug
>>
>> Dear Doug,
>>
>> Not for long.
>>
>> http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html
>>
>
>Dear Carl,
>
>For as long as you like.
>
>http://www.vnv.org.au/Articles/Dogs&Cats.htm
>
>Doug

Dear Doug,

First, cats of a "vegetarian" diet invariably require special
supplements to provide what they cannot synthesize from vegetables and
normally get from their natural prey, as your link makes abundantly
clear.

Without supplements, the "vegetarian" cats sicken and slowly die. A
person might just as well claim to follow a purely carnivorous
diet--with regular vitamin C supplements to stave off scurvy.

Second, even when kept alive with supplements, "vegetarian" cats
suffer (among other difficulties) far more kidney and urinary tract
problems than normal, which is what your link is hinting at.

Third, "vegetarian" cats are rarely as "vegetarian" as claimed. If let
out of the house, they kill and eat anything that they can catch. When
kept indoors and ill-fed, they will kill and eat moths, flies,
crickets, mosquitoes, and even spiders--if they can't catch mice.

As for the phrase "as long as you like," I wouldn't ill-treat a pet
for moral satisfaction at all. The obvious choice for a vegetarian is
to keep a vegetarian pet, such as hamsters, chinchillas, guinea pigs,
rabbits, parrots, iguanas, and fish.

(As other threads make clear, the evil squirrel serves best as cat
food and cannot in good conscience be included in a list of pets.)

It could just as easily be claimed that we can keep pancreas-free cats
as long as we like. Remove the pancreas, follow a regular insulin
injection schedule, and ignore any nagging little details.

In another month, the neighborhood cats will be sitting on my sidewalk
and driveway, staring intently at the thick ground cover plants, heads
cocked to detect the faint rustling in the first fall leaves, ready to
pounce. Drives my dog wild to watch them from the picture window wild,
but he gets to chase rabbits on weekends.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[[email protected]]

there lies truths behind these myths-
in files are copies of 444/544 Volvo instructions and ad copy for
woodburning equipment trunk mounted, also diesel conversion for post
war use.
the J.A.P. from Miles in R/T blew the lube out into the airstream as it
ran obviating a need for the filter - at least for the JAP

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:
> On 14 Aug 2006 13:17:18 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >[email protected] wrote:
> >> On 11 Aug 2006 13:29:53 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> >> >[email protected] wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Just as you can't turn a cat into a vegetarian, you can't run those
> >> >> waspish little glow-plug engines very well without castor oil.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >You can, in fact, turn a cat into a vegetarian.
> >> >
> >> >Cheers,
> >> >Doug
> >>
> >>
> >> Not for long.
> >>
> >> http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html
> >
> >For as long as you like.
> >
> >http://www.vnv.org.au/Articles/Dogs&Cats.htm
> >
> >Doug
>
> Dear Doug,
>
> First, cats of a "vegetarian" diet invariably require special
> supplements ...<snip>


Dear Carl,

Noone said it was easy. But it is clear that it is possible. Any
lingering problems with the diet which is made possbile through
supplements could easily be solved by injecting some money (into
research, that is, not into the cat).

Cheers,
Doug

 

[RonSonic]

On 14 Aug 2006 13:17:18 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On 11 Aug 2006 13:29:53 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>> >[email protected] wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Just as you can't turn a cat into a vegetarian, you can't run those
>> >> waspish little glow-plug engines very well without castor oil.
>> >>
>> >Dear Carl,
>> >
>> >You can, in fact, turn a cat into a vegetarian.
>> >
>> >Cheers,
>> >Doug
>>
>> Dear Doug,
>>
>> Not for long.
>>
>> http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html
>>
>
>Dear Carl,
>
>For as long as you like.
>
>http://www.vnv.org.au/Articles/Dogs&Cats.htm

There are humans who cannot remain healthy on a vegetarian diet. his Holiness
the Dalai fricking Lama is one of them. I think we can take his word for it that
he sincerely tried very hard, but found it does not suit him. Or for that matter
a very large number of others.

To try that with a human who can clearly express his dietary problems is one
thing, to do that to an animal is, perhaps, I don't know if it's too harsh to
call cruel. I'm perfectly comfortable calling it stupid.

Ron

 

[G.T.]

"RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 14 Aug 2006 13:17:18 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >[email protected] wrote:
> >> On 11 Aug 2006 13:29:53 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> >> >[email protected] wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Just as you can't turn a cat into a vegetarian, you can't run those
> >> >> waspish little glow-plug engines very well without castor oil.
> >> >>
> >> >Dear Carl,
> >> >
> >> >You can, in fact, turn a cat into a vegetarian.
> >> >
> >> >Cheers,
> >> >Doug
> >>
> >> Dear Doug,
> >>
> >> Not for long.
> >>
> >> http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html
> >>
> >
> >Dear Carl,
> >
> >For as long as you like.
> >
> >http://www.vnv.org.au/Articles/Dogs&Cats.htm
>
> There are humans who cannot remain healthy on a vegetarian diet. his
Holiness
> the Dalai fricking Lama is one of them. I think we can take his word for
it that
> he sincerely tried very hard, but found it does not suit him. Or for that
matter
> a very large number of others.

I generally agree but I have two raw vegan co-workers here who appear to be
extremely healthy. They're pretty trustworthy but I can't say for sure that
they haven't snuck some animal protein in the last year and a half.

>
> To try that with a human who can clearly express his dietary problems is
one
> thing, to do that to an animal is, perhaps, I don't know if it's too harsh
to
> call cruel. I'm perfectly comfortable calling it stupid.

Agreed.

Greg

 

[RonSonic]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:32:57 -0700, "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 14 Aug 2006 13:17:18 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] wrote:
>> >> On 11 Aug 2006 13:29:53 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >[email protected] wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Just as you can't turn a cat into a vegetarian, you can't run those
>> >> >> waspish little glow-plug engines very well without castor oil.
>> >> >>
>> >> >Dear Carl,
>> >> >
>> >> >You can, in fact, turn a cat into a vegetarian.
>> >> >
>> >> >Cheers,
>> >> >Doug
>> >>
>> >> Dear Doug,
>> >>
>> >> Not for long.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html
>> >>
>> >
>> >Dear Carl,
>> >
>> >For as long as you like.
>> >
>> >http://www.vnv.org.au/Articles/Dogs&Cats.htm
>>
>> There are humans who cannot remain healthy on a vegetarian diet. his
>Holiness
>> the Dalai fricking Lama is one of them. I think we can take his word for
>it that
>> he sincerely tried very hard, but found it does not suit him. Or for that
>matter
>> a very large number of others.
>
>I generally agree but I have two raw vegan co-workers here who appear to be
>extremely healthy. They're pretty trustworthy but I can't say for sure that
>they haven't snuck some animal protein in the last year and a half.

That is hard work, but some people thrive on vegan and vege diets. Others do
not. I'd expect the raw need some sort of supplementation. There's some
nutrients that're very hard to get without meat.

Ron

>>
>> To try that with a human who can clearly express his dietary problems is
>one
>> thing, to do that to an animal is, perhaps, I don't know if it's too harsh
>to
>> call cruel. I'm perfectly comfortable calling it stupid.
>
>Agreed.
>
>Greg
>

 

[[email protected]]

> There are humans who cannot remain healthy on a vegetarian diet. his Holiness
> the Dalai fricking Lama is one of them. I think we can take his word for it that
> he sincerely tried very hard, but found it does not suit him. Or for that matter
> a very large number of others.
>
> To try that with a human who can clearly express his dietary problems is one
> thing, to do that to an animal is, perhaps, I don't know if it's too harsh to
> call cruel. I'm perfectly comfortable calling it stupid.
>
> Ron

Nevertheless, the diets of native people of California (before 1850, at
least) ranged from 100% meat to 100% vegetarian.

Doug

 

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:30:28 -0400, RonSonic
<[email protected]> wrote:

[general snipping]

>>> There are humans who cannot remain healthy on a vegetarian diet. his
>>Holiness
>>> the Dalai fricking Lama is one of them. I think we can take his word for
>>it that
>>> he sincerely tried very hard, but found it does not suit him. Or for that
>>matter
>>> a very large number of others.
>>
>>I generally agree but I have two raw vegan co-workers here who appear to be
>>extremely healthy. They're pretty trustworthy but I can't say for sure that
>>they haven't snuck some animal protein in the last year and a half.
>
>That is hard work, but some people thrive on vegan and vege diets. Others do
>not. I'd expect the raw need some sort of supplementation. There's some
>nutrients that're very hard to get without meat.
>
>Ron
>
>>>
>>> To try that with a human who can clearly express his dietary problems is
>>one
>>> thing, to do that to an animal is, perhaps, I don't know if it's too harsh
>>to
>>> call cruel. I'm perfectly comfortable calling it stupid.
>>
>>Agreed.
>>
>>Greg

Dear Greg & Ron,

Just to clarify, I'm only speaking of carnivorous cats, which are a
known special case, not omnivorous people and dogs.

Cats simply can't synthesize a number of things from a vegetable diet,
including taurine, arachidonic acid, vitamin A (a tricky case, since
the vegetable form is useless to cats), vitamin B12, and niacin.

Even eggs and milk are poor sources of this stuff. Rodent brains, on
the other hand, are chock-full of the stuff.

There are also more complicated problems beyond these basic
requirements, involving the kind of vegetables.

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html

Cats get what they need from prey that has already synthesized it,
just as we avoid scurvy by devouring helpless vegetables that have
done the hard work of synthesizing vitamin C.

It's best not to think about the plight of a pregnant or nursing cat
(or her kittens) sustained by supplements plus a vegetarian diet.

(Unless, of course, you want to give an ophthalmologist preparing for
her board certification a truly romantic gift. Nothing makes a budding
eye-surgeon's eyes gleam like a jar full of cat eyes to practice on.)

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[G.T.]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:30:28 -0400, RonSonic
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Greg & Ron,
>
> Just to clarify, I'm only speaking of carnivorous cats, which are a
> known special case, not omnivorous people and dogs.
>
> Cats simply can't synthesize a number of things from a vegetable diet,
> including taurine, arachidonic acid, vitamin A (a tricky case, since
> the vegetable form is useless to cats), vitamin B12, and niacin.

In a bit of synchronicity my girlfriend has been discussing these same
issues with me for the past few days. Her cat is 3 or 4 pounds
overweight so she's done a lot of cat diet research lately.

>
> Even eggs and milk are poor sources of this stuff. Rodent brains, on
> the other hand, are chock-full of the stuff.
>
> There are also more complicated problems beyond these basic
> requirements, involving the kind of vegetables.
>
> http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html
>
> Cats get what they need from prey that has already synthesized it,
> just as we avoid scurvy by devouring helpless vegetables that have
> done the hard work of synthesizing vitamin C.
>
> It's best not to think about the plight of a pregnant or nursing cat
> (or her kittens) sustained by supplements plus a vegetarian diet.
>
> (Unless, of course, you want to give an ophthalmologist preparing for
> her board certification a truly romantic gift. Nothing makes a budding
> eye-surgeon's eyes gleam like a jar full of cat eyes to practice on.)

And Kimberly mentioned taurine deficiency several times.

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons