vegetarian diet

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by [email protected], Jan 30, 2005.

  1. people ,
    I am in a real dilemna , I am overwieght and need to lose weight but I
    love to do weights which means less cardio.. any suggestions? also I am
    a vegetarian and hence no meat or eggs for me , is there any
    combination other than supplements that will help me gain muscle mass?
    please advise.

    Arun
    India
     
    Tags:


  2. David

    David Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > people ,
    > I am in a real dilemna , I am overwieght and need to lose weight but I
    > love to do weights which means less cardio.. any suggestions? also I am
    > a vegetarian and hence no meat or eggs for me , is there any
    > combination other than supplements that will help me gain muscle mass?
    > please advise.
    >
    > Arun
    > India


    Check this link for losing weight and building muscle
    http://www.intense-workout.com/same.html
     
  3. Delenn

    Delenn Guest

    [email protected] wrote:

    > people ,
    > I am in a real dilemna , I am overwieght and need to lose weight but I
    > love to do weights which means less cardio.. any suggestions? also I am
    > a vegetarian and hence no meat or eggs for me , is there any
    > combination other than supplements that will help me gain muscle mass?
    > please advise.
    >
    > Arun
    > India


    If you want to change then you're going to have to change.

    I lost a lot of weight by balancing my macronutrients and lifting
    weights three times a week and doing high intensity interval training
    three times a week.

    I maintain the weight loss by eating a diet with balanced macronutrients
    at maintenance calorie levels and doing cardio three to five times a
    week (often in the context of a sport or family activity) and lifting
    weights two or three times a week.

    The keys to this are to eat less and exercise more. You get to figure
    out how to eat less all by yourself, but many of us have found that we
    are sated and have better energy levels and retain muscle mass best if
    we get a bunch of our calories from protein. If you insist on not
    eating the protein then you're likely going to have to "supplement" it
    from some choice like protein powders.

    Consider carefully what advantages being vegetarian has for you. If
    it's ethical then it's what it is and you'll live with your choices. If
    it's for health reasons you might want to re-think your beliefs. If
    it's because you're a picky eater then realize that your hang-ups might
    need working on.

    Because you're going to have to change if you want to change.

    Delenn
     
  4. On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:15:41 -0500, Delenn <[email protected]> wrote:

    >[email protected] wrote:
    >
    >> people ,
    >> I am in a real dilemna , I am overwieght and need to lose weight but I
    >> love to do weights which means less cardio.. any suggestions? also I am
    >> a vegetarian and hence no meat or eggs for me , is there any
    >> combination other than supplements that will help me gain muscle mass?
    >> please advise.
    >>
    >> Arun
    >> India

    >
    >If you want to change then you're going to have to change.

    <snip>
    >The keys to this are to eat less and exercise more. You get to figure
    >out how to eat less all by yourself, but many of us have found that we
    >are sated and have better energy levels and retain muscle mass best if
    >we get a bunch of our calories from protein. If you insist on not
    >eating the protein then you're likely going to have to "supplement" it
    >from some choice like protein powders.
    >
    >Consider carefully what advantages being vegetarian has for you. If
    >it's ethical then it's what it is and you'll live with your choices. If
    >it's for health reasons you might want to re-think your beliefs. If
    >it's because you're a picky eater then realize that your hang-ups might
    >need working on.
    >
    >Because you're going to have to change if you want to change.

    i like that phrase.

    a strict vegetarian (vegan?) cannot have protein powder
    either since it is made from whey...milk. perhaps they
    could have the soy based stuff but before that they
    can just up their nuts and tofu quantity. realize that when
    she says she want to "gain muscle", she is setting aside
    for a moment the "lose weight" part. Obviously, she needs
    to make a choice. Most people opt to lose the weight first.
    Plenty of fat and some muscle will go too, and then she can
    worry about shape. There's no reason why she can't
    lose weight, and work out hard enough to at least
    maintain her current muscles.

    i stopped eating meat last year. it is a bit of a struggle
    to get what i consider the right amount of protein
    every day. but i supplement with whey powder.
    without that, it's not easy. especially if you're
    trying to keep the %age of your calories that you're
    getting from fat low too.
    ....thehick
     
  5. Proton Soup

    Proton Soup Guest

    On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:56:18 -0500, frank-in-toronto
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:15:41 -0500, Delenn <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>[email protected] wrote:
    >>
    >>> people ,
    >>> I am in a real dilemna , I am overwieght and need to lose weight but I
    >>> love to do weights which means less cardio.. any suggestions? also I am
    >>> a vegetarian and hence no meat or eggs for me , is there any
    >>> combination other than supplements that will help me gain muscle mass?
    >>> please advise.
    >>>
    >>> Arun
    >>> India

    >>
    >>If you want to change then you're going to have to change.

    ><snip>
    >>The keys to this are to eat less and exercise more. You get to figure
    >>out how to eat less all by yourself, but many of us have found that we
    >>are sated and have better energy levels and retain muscle mass best if
    >>we get a bunch of our calories from protein. If you insist on not
    >>eating the protein then you're likely going to have to "supplement" it
    >>from some choice like protein powders.
    >>
    >>Consider carefully what advantages being vegetarian has for you. If
    >>it's ethical then it's what it is and you'll live with your choices. If
    >>it's for health reasons you might want to re-think your beliefs. If
    >>it's because you're a picky eater then realize that your hang-ups might
    >>need working on.
    >>
    >>Because you're going to have to change if you want to change.

    >i like that phrase.
    >
    >a strict vegetarian (vegan?) cannot have protein powder
    >either since it is made from whey...milk. perhaps they
    >could have the soy based stuff but before that they
    >can just up their nuts and tofu quantity. realize that when
    >she says she want to "gain muscle", she is setting aside
    >for a moment the "lose weight" part. Obviously, she needs
    >to make a choice. Most people opt to lose the weight first.
    >Plenty of fat and some muscle will go too, and then she can
    >worry about shape. There's no reason why she can't
    >lose weight, and work out hard enough to at least
    >maintain her current muscles.


    Actually, you can get soy protein powder, but that's not friendly to
    animals, either, because huge acreages of rain forest are being cut
    down to grow soy. Come to think of it, a strict vegetarian is harming
    animals by eating agricultural crops that destroy wildlife habitat.

    >i stopped eating meat last year. it is a bit of a struggle
    >to get what i consider the right amount of protein
    >every day. but i supplement with whey powder.
    >without that, it's not easy. especially if you're
    >trying to keep the %age of your calories that you're
    >getting from fat low too.
    >...thehick


    Have you considered also giving up agricultural foods, and relying
    instead on strict foraging for food?

    -----------
    Proton Soup

    "Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane
     
  6. David

    David Guest

    "Delenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > > people ,
    > > I am in a real dilemna , I am overwieght and need to lose weight but I
    > > love to do weights which means less cardio.. any suggestions? also I am
    > > a vegetarian and hence no meat or eggs for me , is there any
    > > combination other than supplements that will help me gain muscle mass?
    > > please advise.
    > >
    > > Arun
    > > India

    >
    > If you want to change then you're going to have to change.
    >
    > I lost a lot of weight by balancing my macronutrients and lifting
    > weights three times a week and doing high intensity interval training
    > three times a week.
    >
    > I maintain the weight loss by eating a diet with balanced macronutrients
    > at maintenance calorie levels and doing cardio three to five times a
    > week (often in the context of a sport or family activity) and lifting
    > weights two or three times a week.
    >
    > The keys to this are to eat less and exercise more. You get to figure
    > out how to eat less all by yourself, but many of us have found that we
    > are sated and have better energy levels and retain muscle mass best if
    > we get a bunch of our calories from protein. If you insist on not
    > eating the protein then you're likely going to have to "supplement" it
    > from some choice like protein powders.
    >
    > Consider carefully what advantages being vegetarian has for you. If
    > it's ethical then it's what it is and you'll live with your choices. If
    > it's for health reasons you might want to re-think your beliefs. If
    > it's because you're a picky eater then realize that your hang-ups might
    > need working on.
    >
    > Because you're going to have to change if you want to change.
    >
    > Delenn



    Just about all Indians are vegetarians - it is not an option to ask him to
    reconsider - something to do with their religion
     
  7. Delenn

    Delenn Guest

  8. Delenn

    Delenn Guest

    David wrote:

    > "Delenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message


    >>Consider carefully what advantages being vegetarian has for you. If
    >>it's ethical then it's what it is and you'll live with your choices. If
    >>it's for health reasons you might want to re-think your beliefs. If
    >>it's because you're a picky eater then realize that your hang-ups might
    >>need working on.
    >>
    >>Because you're going to have to change if you want to change.


    >
    > Just about all Indians are vegetarians - it is not an option to ask him to
    > reconsider - something to do with their religion


    Spoken like the true religious scholar you are. I think you're trying
    to say that Hindus don't eat beef. Try reading the second sentence of
    my paragraph again.

    My experience with vegetarians is that very few of them are actually
    vegetarian for ethical or religious reasons. I'm not saying it isn't
    possible, but a better guess is that it seemed fashionable or healthy to
    them, or they're just really picky eaters that enjoy being a pain in the
    ass and/or controlling food in obsessive ways.

    I don't know this guy or his situation so I'm just speculating.

    Delenn
     
  9. David

    David Guest

    "Delenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > David wrote:
    >
    > > "Delenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    >
    > >>Consider carefully what advantages being vegetarian has for you. If
    > >>it's ethical then it's what it is and you'll live with your choices. If
    > >>it's for health reasons you might want to re-think your beliefs. If
    > >>it's because you're a picky eater then realize that your hang-ups might
    > >>need working on.
    > >>
    > >>Because you're going to have to change if you want to change.

    >
    > >
    > > Just about all Indians are vegetarians - it is not an option to ask him

    to
    > > reconsider - something to do with their religion

    >
    > Spoken like the true religious scholar you are. I think you're trying
    > to say that Hindus don't eat beef. Try reading the second sentence of
    > my paragraph again.
    >
    > My experience with vegetarians is that very few of them are actually
    > vegetarian for ethical or religious reasons. I'm not saying it isn't
    > possible, but a better guess is that it seemed fashionable or healthy to
    > them, or they're just really picky eaters that enjoy being a pain in the
    > ass and/or controlling food in obsessive ways.
    >
    > I don't know this guy or his situation so I'm just speculating.
    >
    > Delenn
    > \


    O goodness me! You noticed about my expertise. Most of what I know about
    Indians I learned after wandering in the Rugs Bazaar store - the owner had
    this turban on and when I was there he was eating vegetable chow mein -
    strictly no meat. Plus his father I remember was very angry when he gave a
    customer a 7000% discount on this carpet that had a beetroot stain on it.
    (still it is pretty stupid to talk to a vegetarian from India in the same
    way you would to a teenager in Boston who frivolously chose a certain
    lifestyle. The idea of suggesting he was a 'picky' eater! I found it
    hilarious)
     
  10. David

    David Guest

    "Delenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > David wrote:
    >
    > > "Delenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    >
    > >>Consider carefully what advantages being vegetarian has for you. If
    > >>it's ethical then it's what it is and you'll live with your choices. If
    > >>it's for health reasons you might want to re-think your beliefs. If
    > >>it's because you're a picky eater then realize that your hang-ups might
    > >>need working on.
    > >>
    > >>Because you're going to have to change if you want to change.

    >
    > >
    > > Just about all Indians are vegetarians - it is not an option to ask him

    to
    > > reconsider - something to do with their religion

    >
    > Spoken like the true religious scholar you are. I think you're trying
    > to say that Hindus don't eat beef. Try reading the second sentence of
    > my paragraph again.
    >
    > My experience with vegetarians is that very few of them are actually
    > vegetarian for ethical or religious reasons. I'm not saying it isn't
    > possible, but a better guess is that it seemed fashionable or healthy to
    > them, or they're just really picky eaters that enjoy being a pain in the
    > ass and/or controlling food in obsessive ways.
    >
    > I don't know this guy or his situation so I'm just speculating.
    >
    > Delenn


    You can bet your menorah that if an Indian is vegetarian it is for
    religions/ethical or deeply cultural reasons. I can guarantee it is not
    because he is a 'picky' eater!
     
  11. Proton Soup

    Proton Soup Guest

    On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:52:05 -0500, Delenn <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Proton Soup wrote:
    >
    >> Have you considered also giving up agricultural foods, and relying
    >> instead on strict foraging for food?

    >
    >http://www.acorn.net/fruitarian/what.html
    >
    >Delenn


    Yeah, I eat a lot of fruit myself, but primarily because I like it.
    It's a shame though that we don't plant more trees that make food.
    Around here, the predominant species appears to be some ornamental
    worthless piece of crap. It's some kind of pear or apple, but the
    fruits are smaller than plums, hard and bitter. I think they plant
    them because harvesting the fruit would be a pain in the ass. Apple
    trees always wind up with a bit of a mess under them, rotten and
    fermenting, with yellow jackets buzzing around and piles of mush to
    slip and fall on. Can't have that. It's a shame really.

    -----------
    Proton Soup

    "Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane
     
  12. Hugh Beyer

    Hugh Beyer Guest

    Delenn <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > David wrote:
    >
    >> "Delenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    >
    >>>Consider carefully what advantages being vegetarian has for you. If
    >>>it's ethical then it's what it is and you'll live with your choices.
    >>>If it's for health reasons you might want to re-think your beliefs. If
    >>>it's because you're a picky eater then realize that your hang-ups might
    >>>need working on.
    >>>
    >>>Because you're going to have to change if you want to change.

    >
    >>
    >> Just about all Indians are vegetarians - it is not an option to ask him
    >> to reconsider - something to do with their religion

    >
    > Spoken like the true religious scholar you are. I think you're trying
    > to say that Hindus don't eat beef. Try reading the second sentence of
    > my paragraph again.
    >
    > My experience with vegetarians is that very few of them are actually
    > vegetarian for ethical or religious reasons. I'm not saying it isn't
    > possible, but a better guess is that it seemed fashionable or healthy to
    > them, or they're just really picky eaters that enjoy being a pain in the
    > ass and/or controlling food in obsessive ways.
    >
    > I don't know this guy or his situation so I'm just speculating.
    >


    Actually, David's closer to right than you are. The Hindus I meet (i.e.
    all middle-class ex-pats in the high-tech community) are all either
    vegetarian or think they ought to be.

    The up side for Arun is that Indian vegetarianism usually leaves lots of
    options--milk is okay, fish is often okay, and sometimes eggs are. You can
    also go a long way on lentils and chick peas. But I'd lean on the whey
    powder, I think.

    Hugh



    --
    Run like hell and let the clowns deal with the bull.
     
  13. <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > people ,
    > I am in a real dilemna , I am overwieght and need to lose weight but I
    > love to do weights which means less cardio.. any suggestions? also I
    > am
    > a vegetarian and hence no meat or eggs for me , is there any
    > combination other than supplements that will help me gain muscle mass?
    > please advise.


    I think anyone looking to gain muscle on a vegan diet should read what
    Mike Mahler has to say on the subject. Start here:

    http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/mahler_big_strong.htm

    and also check on Mike's latest DVD, the focus of which is on gaining
    both size and strength using kettlebells. I'm not trying to gain muscle
    size but he gives a lot of detail on the finer points of many
    kettlebells lifts - solid stuff, a lot of which you won't find anywhere
    else, and overall a nice contribution to the body of kettlebell training
    material that's out there now. Here's a link:

    http://www.kbnj.com/mmsize.htm

    In the meantime, I recommend you diet by the tried and true formula -
    lift weights, do cardio, and eat 500 calories per day less. When you
    feel you've accomplished what you want in fat reduction, then worry
    about putting on more muscle.

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com
     
  14. "Proton Soup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:56:18 -0500, frank-in-toronto
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:15:41 -0500, Delenn <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>[email protected] wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> people ,
    >>>> I am in a real dilemna , I am overwieght and need to lose weight but I
    >>>> love to do weights which means less cardio.. any suggestions? also I am
    >>>> a vegetarian and hence no meat or eggs for me , is there any
    >>>> combination other than supplements that will help me gain muscle mass?
    >>>> please advise.
    >>>>
    >>>> Arun
    >>>> India
    >>>
    >>>If you want to change then you're going to have to change.

    >><snip>
    >>>The keys to this are to eat less and exercise more. You get to figure
    >>>out how to eat less all by yourself, but many of us have found that we
    >>>are sated and have better energy levels and retain muscle mass best if
    >>>we get a bunch of our calories from protein. If you insist on not
    >>>eating the protein then you're likely going to have to "supplement" it
    >>>from some choice like protein powders.
    >>>
    >>>Consider carefully what advantages being vegetarian has for you. If
    >>>it's ethical then it's what it is and you'll live with your choices. If
    >>>it's for health reasons you might want to re-think your beliefs. If
    >>>it's because you're a picky eater then realize that your hang-ups might
    >>>need working on.
    >>>
    >>>Because you're going to have to change if you want to change.

    >>i like that phrase.
    >>
    >>a strict vegetarian (vegan?) cannot have protein powder
    >>either since it is made from whey...milk. perhaps they
    >>could have the soy based stuff but before that they
    >>can just up their nuts and tofu quantity. realize that when
    >>she says she want to "gain muscle", she is setting aside
    >>for a moment the "lose weight" part. Obviously, she needs
    >>to make a choice. Most people opt to lose the weight first.
    >>Plenty of fat and some muscle will go too, and then she can
    >>worry about shape. There's no reason why she can't
    >>lose weight, and work out hard enough to at least
    >>maintain her current muscles.

    >
    > Actually, you can get soy protein powder, but that's not friendly to
    > animals, either, because huge acreages of rain forest are being cut
    > down to grow soy. Come to think of it, a strict vegetarian is harming
    > animals by eating agricultural crops that destroy wildlife habitat.



    When are you going to stop using this lame excuse to make yourself feel
    better, genius? According to information compiled by the United States
    Department of Agriculture, over ninety percent of all the grain/agriculture
    produced in America goes to feed livestock-cows, pigs, sheep, and
    chickens-that wind up on dinner tables. Yet the process of using grain to
    produce meat is incredibly wasteful. Figures from the U.S. Department of
    Agriculture show that for every sixteen pounds of grain fed to cattle, we
    get back only one pound of meat.
     
  15. "Delenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > David wrote:
    >
    >> "Delenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    >
    >>>Consider carefully what advantages being vegetarian has for you. If
    >>>it's ethical then it's what it is and you'll live with your choices. If
    >>>it's for health reasons you might want to re-think your beliefs. If
    >>>it's because you're a picky eater then realize that your hang-ups might
    >>>need working on.
    >>>
    >>>Because you're going to have to change if you want to change.

    >
    >>
    >> Just about all Indians are vegetarians - it is not an option to ask him
    >> to
    >> reconsider - something to do with their religion

    >
    > Spoken like the true religious scholar you are. I think you're trying to
    > say that Hindus don't eat beef. Try reading the second sentence of my
    > paragraph again.
    >
    > My experience with vegetarians is that very few of them are actually
    > vegetarian for ethical or religious reasons. I'm not saying it isn't
    > possible, but a better guess is that it seemed fashionable or healthy to
    > them, or they're just really picky eaters that enjoy being a pain in the
    > ass and/or controlling food in obsessive ways.


    lol, love how you can stereotype a group of very diverse people into
    something that satisfies your own need for self-worth.
     
  16. David  Cohen

    David Cohen Guest

    "Zwanz of Never" <[email protected]> wrote
    > "Proton Soup" <[email protected]> wrote
    >> frank-in-toronto <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> Delenn <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>[email protected] wrote:
    >>>>> people ,
    >>>>> I am in a real dilemna , I am overwieght and need to lose weight but I
    >>>>> love to do weights which means less cardio.. any suggestions? also I
    >>>>> am
    >>>>> a vegetarian and hence no meat or eggs for me , is there any
    >>>>> combination other than supplements that will help me gain muscle mass?
    >>>>> please advise.


    >>>>If you want to change then you're going to have to change.
    >>><snip>
    >>>>The keys to this are to eat less and exercise more. You get to figure
    >>>>out how to eat less all by yourself, but many of us have found that we
    >>>>are sated and have better energy levels and retain muscle mass best if
    >>>>we get a bunch of our calories from protein. If you insist on not
    >>>>eating the protein then you're likely going to have to "supplement" it
    >>>>from some choice like protein powders.
    >>>>
    >>>>Consider carefully what advantages being vegetarian has for you. If
    >>>>it's ethical then it's what it is and you'll live with your choices. If
    >>>>it's for health reasons you might want to re-think your beliefs. If
    >>>>it's because you're a picky eater then realize that your hang-ups might
    >>>>need working on.
    >>>>
    >>>>Because you're going to have to change if you want to change.
    >>>i like that phrase.
    >>>
    >>>a strict vegetarian (vegan?) cannot have protein powder
    >>>either since it is made from whey...milk. perhaps they
    >>>could have the soy based stuff but before that they
    >>>can just up their nuts and tofu quantity. realize that when
    >>>she says she want to "gain muscle", she is setting aside
    >>>for a moment the "lose weight" part. Obviously, she needs
    >>>to make a choice. Most people opt to lose the weight first.
    >>>Plenty of fat and some muscle will go too, and then she can
    >>>worry about shape. There's no reason why she can't
    >>>lose weight, and work out hard enough to at least
    >>>maintain her current muscles.

    >>
    >> Actually, you can get soy protein powder, but that's not friendly to
    >> animals, either, because huge acreages of rain forest are being cut
    >> down to grow soy. Come to think of it, a strict vegetarian is harming
    >> animals by eating agricultural crops that destroy wildlife habitat.

    >
    > When are you going to stop using this lame excuse to make yourself feel
    > better, genius? According to information compiled by the United States
    > Department of Agriculture, over ninety percent of all the
    > grain/agriculture produced in America goes to feed livestock-cows, pigs,
    > sheep, and chickens-that wind up on dinner tables. Yet the process of
    > using grain to produce meat is incredibly wasteful. Figures from the U.S.
    > Department of Agriculture show that for every sixteen pounds of grain fed
    > to cattle, we get back only one pound of meat.


    Excellent. Just for you, tomorrow, after a day of driving my gas-guzzling
    SUV, having a meat-lovers pizza for lunch...I'll only eat half and throw the
    rest away...I'm going to go out and have some nice veal parmigiana. Just for
    you.

    David
     
  17. "David Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    >
    > Excellent. Just for you, tomorrow, after a day of driving my gas-guzzling
    > SUV, having a meat-lovers pizza for lunch...I'll only eat half and throw
    > the rest away...I'm going to go out and have some nice veal parmigiana.
    > Just for you.
    >
    > David


    That doesn't bother me a bit, I've grown to accept that some people only
    think of themselves....
     
  18. David

    David Guest

    "David Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Zwanz of Never" <[email protected]> wrote
    > > "Proton Soup" <[email protected]> wrote
    > >> frank-in-toronto <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>> Delenn <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>>>[email protected] wrote:
    > >>>>> people ,
    > >>>>> I am in a real dilemna , I am overwieght and need to lose weight but

    I
    > >>>>> love to do weights which means less cardio.. any suggestions? also I
    > >>>>> am
    > >>>>> a vegetarian and hence no meat or eggs for me , is there any
    > >>>>> combination other than supplements that will help me gain muscle

    mass?
    > >>>>> please advise.

    >
    > >>>>If you want to change then you're going to have to change.
    > >>><snip>
    > >>>>The keys to this are to eat less and exercise more. You get to figure
    > >>>>out how to eat less all by yourself, but many of us have found that we
    > >>>>are sated and have better energy levels and retain muscle mass best if
    > >>>>we get a bunch of our calories from protein. If you insist on not
    > >>>>eating the protein then you're likely going to have to "supplement" it
    > >>>>from some choice like protein powders.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Consider carefully what advantages being vegetarian has for you. If
    > >>>>it's ethical then it's what it is and you'll live with your choices.

    If
    > >>>>it's for health reasons you might want to re-think your beliefs. If
    > >>>>it's because you're a picky eater then realize that your hang-ups

    might
    > >>>>need working on.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Because you're going to have to change if you want to change.
    > >>>i like that phrase.
    > >>>
    > >>>a strict vegetarian (vegan?) cannot have protein powder
    > >>>either since it is made from whey...milk. perhaps they
    > >>>could have the soy based stuff but before that they
    > >>>can just up their nuts and tofu quantity. realize that when
    > >>>she says she want to "gain muscle", she is setting aside
    > >>>for a moment the "lose weight" part. Obviously, she needs
    > >>>to make a choice. Most people opt to lose the weight first.
    > >>>Plenty of fat and some muscle will go too, and then she can
    > >>>worry about shape. There's no reason why she can't
    > >>>lose weight, and work out hard enough to at least
    > >>>maintain her current muscles.
    > >>
    > >> Actually, you can get soy protein powder, but that's not friendly to
    > >> animals, either, because huge acreages of rain forest are being cut
    > >> down to grow soy. Come to think of it, a strict vegetarian is harming
    > >> animals by eating agricultural crops that destroy wildlife habitat.

    > >
    > > When are you going to stop using this lame excuse to make yourself feel
    > > better, genius? According to information compiled by the United States
    > > Department of Agriculture, over ninety percent of all the
    > > grain/agriculture produced in America goes to feed livestock-cows, pigs,
    > > sheep, and chickens-that wind up on dinner tables. Yet the process of
    > > using grain to produce meat is incredibly wasteful. Figures from the

    U.S.
    > > Department of Agriculture show that for every sixteen pounds of grain

    fed
    > > to cattle, we get back only one pound of meat.

    >
    > Excellent. Just for you, tomorrow, after a day of driving my gas-guzzling
    > SUV, having a meat-lovers pizza for lunch...I'll only eat half and throw

    the
    > rest away...I'm going to go out and have some nice veal parmigiana. Just

    for
    > you.
    >
    > David
    >

    I think it is disgraceful to eat veal parmigiana when veal schnitzel is
    *much* tastier!
     
  19. David  Cohen

    David Cohen Guest

    "Zwanz of Never" <[email protected]> wrote
    > "David Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote
    >> Excellent. Just for you, tomorrow, after a day of driving my gas-guzzling
    >> SUV, having a meat-lovers pizza for lunch...I'll only eat half and throw
    >> the rest away...I'm going to go out and have some nice veal parmigiana.
    >> Just for you.
    >>

    > That doesn't bother me a bit, I've grown to accept that some people only
    > think of themselves....


    Oh, hardly. I'll think about the cow, the pig, and the little baby calf that
    I'll be eating.

    David
     
  20. Delenn

    Delenn Guest

    Zwanz of Never wrote:

    > "Delenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message


    >>My experience with vegetarians is that very few of them are actually
    >>vegetarian for ethical or religious reasons. I'm not saying it isn't
    >>possible, but a better guess is that it seemed fashionable or healthy to
    >>them, or they're just really picky eaters that enjoy being a pain in the
    >>ass and/or controlling food in obsessive ways.

    >
    >
    > lol, love how you can stereotype a group of very diverse people into
    > something that satisfies your own need for self-worth.


    How is my need for self-worth related to why people become vegetarian?

    Now I'm wondering - why is the OP vegetarian? Religion, perceived
    health benefits or because he just doesn't like a lot of foods and
    builds rules around them and spends a lot of effort and energy
    controlling exactly what minute ingredients are in his food?

    Ever try to go out to dinner with a vegan? Tons of fun. I've had the
    experience of attempting to serve meals to vegans as well as attempting
    to go out to restaurants with vegans. The ones I know are vegan mostly
    because they hate nearly every food and that way they can vet everything
    to see if it suits before they will put it in their mouths... and I
    assure you they aren't just looking for animal products. One person I
    know intimately hates nearly all vegetables, dislikes the feel of oil,
    and doesn't use herbs or spices. She lives on baked potatoes with soy
    sauce. It certainly isn't for ethics or religion, though she claims
    it's for health.

    I'm not saying that all vegetarians are like that, but I know enough of
    them who are vegetarian because of food control issues that I suspect
    it's a mild form of mental illness.

    Now... how does that make me feel more self-worth? I've got my own
    foibles, I don't need to gloat over other people's. I note them and go on.

    Delenn
     
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