Velocity Aerohead vs. Razor

[thejen12]

Hi all,

I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.

I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
(That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
saddle.

Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?

One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?

thanks!!

Jenn

 

[www.BFWG.net]

"thejen12" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> saddle.
>
> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> thanks!!
>
> Jenn
>

I'd use AeroHead & OC,
28 spoke rear / 24 front
and if your budget allows, CX-Ray spokes by Sapim
Large tires and/or lower air pressure make more difference than anything
else in ride feel, WITHOUT affecting efficiency or speed.

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 16, 6:17 am, "thejen12" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> saddle.
>
> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> thanks!!
>
> Jenn

At 125, you can afford to go as light as you want. Also you can drop
the spoke count for less weight and less drag. Either of those tires
will be quite comfortable, as long as you resist the urge to
overinflate them. Tires have about 10,000 times more to say than rims
when it comes to comfort.

I'd go with 28 (or even 24 or less) Aerohead/OC, given those options.
I outweigh you by 100lbs and I do fine on 28 front, 32 rear for my
"race" wheels on bad roads. But actually if I were 125 and liked to
climb (and who wouldn't!) I'd go for something even lighter. No reason
not to use wide tires like the P2R 25's but again back to your weight;
you are so light you can run narrower tires at low pressures without
risking pinch flats. Perhaps your experiences have been with
overinflated and thus over-harsh tires and this is leading you toward
larger (heavier) tires?

Have fun!

Joseph

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Apr 15, 10:17 pm, "thejen12" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> saddle.
>
> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> thanks!!
>
> Jenn

Rims have no effect on comfort, tires do. I would build a set of
Aeroheads for you, 28/2 cross Revolution spokes in the front and 28/3
cross 14/15 in the rear using the OC rim. Single eyelets for the
razor, not a bad rim but the builder MUST adhere to the max tension of
100 KGF or pulling an eyelet out is a real possibility.

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 16, 8:54 am, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 16, 6:17 am, "thejen12" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > saddle.
>
> > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > thanks!!
>
> > Jenn
>
> At 125, you can afford to go as light as you want. Also you can drop
> the spoke count for less weight and less drag. Either of those tires
> will be quite comfortable, as long as you resist the urge to
> overinflate them. Tires have about 10,000 times more to say than rims
> when it comes to comfort.
>
> I'd go with 28 (or even 24 or less) Aerohead/OC, given those options.
> I outweigh you by 100lbs and I do fine on 28 front, 32 rear for my
> "race" wheels on bad roads. But actually if I were 125 and liked to
> climb (and who wouldn't!) I'd go for something even lighter. No reason
> not to use wide tires like the P2R 25's but again back to your weight;
> you are so light you can run narrower tires at low pressures without
> risking pinch flats. Perhaps your experiences have been with
> overinflated and thus over-harsh tires and this is leading you toward
> larger (heavier) tires?
>
> Have fun!
>
> Joseph

I've changed my mind. The answer is always aero.

If you are replacing your wheels it only makes sense to replace them
with better ones, or else what's the point? If it was just a matter of
comfort, tires will do the trick, but if you want more performance (in
other words, speed) then new wheeels may be the ticket.

In my opinion, first determine how much you want to spend, then get
the most aero wheels you can get for that price, and weight comes a
distant 2nd.

Since you are looking at Velocity rims, lets compare Deep-V's to
Aerohead's. The Deep-V's will be about 200g heavier for a set. This is
a miniscule amount that will give at most 2-3 seconds advantage to the
Aerohead's up a 5km 8% grade. Not much. However, aero rims like the
Deep-V's can give an extra .5 km/h advantage on the flat. Even using a
more conservative .25 estimate, this means the Deep-V's are ahead by
15 seconds on 5km of flat road. What this means in practice is you can
more easily hold the wheel for a larger rider cruising on the flats,
and still drop them on the climbs!

For comfort, the Michelin P2R's in 25 are more like 27 or 28 on my
Aerohead's. Make sure you have the clearance, not just in width, but
height. That is where I have issues with them. At 125lbs, you could
probably run 70psi in those 25's. Talk about a cushy ride!

Joseph

 

[daveornee]

On Apr 16, 8:54 am, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 16, 6:17 am, "thejen12" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > saddle.
>
> > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > thanks!!
>
> > Jenn
>
> At 125, you can afford to go as light as you want. Also you can drop
> the spoke count for less weight and less drag. Either of those tires
> will be quite comfortable, as long as you resist the urge to
> overinflate them. Tires have about 10,000 times more to say than rims
> when it comes to comfort.
>
> I'd go with 28 (or even 24 or less) Aerohead/OC, given those options.
> I outweigh you by 100lbs and I do fine on 28 front, 32 rear for my
> "race" wheels on bad roads. But actually if I were 125 and liked to
> climb (and who wouldn't!) I'd go for something even lighter. No reason
> not to use wide tires like the P2R 25's but again back to your weight;
> you are so light you can run narrower tires at low pressures without
> risking pinch flats. Perhaps your experiences have been with
> overinflated and thus over-harsh tires and this is leading you toward
> larger (heavier) tires?
>
> Have fun!
>
> Joseph

I've changed my mind. The answer is always aero.

If you are replacing your wheels it only makes sense to replace them
with better ones, or else what's the point? If it was just a matter of
comfort, tires will do the trick, but if you want more performance (in
other words, speed) then new wheeels may be the ticket.

In my opinion, first determine how much you want to spend, then get
the most aero wheels you can get for that price, and weight comes a
distant 2nd.

Since you are looking at Velocity rims, lets compare Deep-V's to
Aerohead's. The Deep-V's will be about 200g heavier for a set. This is
a miniscule amount that will give at most 2-3 seconds advantage to the
Aerohead's up a 5km 8% grade. Not much. However, aero rims like the
Deep-V's can give an extra .5 km/h advantage on the flat. Even using a
more conservative .25 estimate, this means the Deep-V's are ahead by
15 seconds on 5km of flat road. What this means in practice is you can
more easily hold the wheel for a larger rider cruising on the flats,
and still drop them on the climbs!

For comfort, the Michelin P2R's in 25 are more like 27 or 28 on my
Aerohead's. Make sure you have the clearance, not just in width, but
height. That is where I have issues with them. At 125lbs, you could
probably run 70psi in those 25's. Talk about a cushy ride!

Joseph

I am with Joseph on this one.
While you are at it consider some aero spokes like Sapim CX-Ray. They are light, aero, but expensive. You could cerainly go with 24 (or 20) front with the Deep V rim.
I also think the Michelin P2R's in 25, if they fit, are the ticket for comfort... again run ~70 PSI.

 

[A Muzi]

thejen12 wrote:
> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> saddle.
>
> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?

Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
front will be durable for you.

After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.

p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
rigid in the vertical.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Donga]

On Apr 17, 3:01 am, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> thejen12 wrote:
> > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > saddle.
>
> > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
> hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
> front will be durable for you.
>
> After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
> are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.
>
> p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
> rigid in the vertical.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?

Donga

 

[Paul Kopit]

On 17 Apr 2007 04:44:10 -0700, Donga
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
>put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
>presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
>my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
>figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
>Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
>that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?

OC is absolutely no gimmick. In my experience, any V shaped rim is
more difficult to straighten than a box shaped one. I regularly ride
an OC that had a dent on flat side but it took more work to get it
flat again. Perhaps it is because the alloy they use is less
maleable. I have not found the Velocity rims to dent more easilly
than other designs or brands.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Apr 17, 5:44 am, Donga <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 17, 3:01 am, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > thejen12 wrote:
> > > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > > saddle.
>
> > > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
> > hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
> > front will be durable for you.
>
> > After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
> > are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.
>
> > p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
> > rigid in the vertical.
> > --
> > Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
> put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
> presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
> my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
> figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
> Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
> that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?
>
> Donga

If you take the time to measure the tension differences on any OC rim
you will see that the left side tension is much higher on a OC rim
than a standard one-a GOOD thing. Remember the very strongest wheels
are ones with equal tension left and right so anything you can do to
raise tension on the left will help.

'Dents on the flat side of 2 with a cateye, computer? That does not
compute, what do you mean? I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great
results.

 

[thejen12]

On Apr 17, 8:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:

I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great
> results.
>
I am a little worried that the AH OC will not leave enough vavle-stem
exposed to pump up easily (especially when the tire is flat). I used
to have this problem with a Campy Lambda rim, and I hated it so much
that I no longer use that wheel. What have others found?

Thanks, Jenn

 

[Greg Evans]

Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:

> 'Dents on the flat side of 2 with a cateye, computer? That does
> not compute, what do you mean?

I'm guessing what he (Donga) means is a road reflector. He said:

>> Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I
>> have put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them
>> away. I presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and
>> yes I do pump my tires!

I'm reading that to mean that he presumes that a glancing blow on a
road reflector dented his rims.

Greg

--
My Photos-
http://www.gsevans.com/photography/

My Blog-
http://www.gsevans.com/blog/

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 17, 6:24 pm, thejen12 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 17, 8:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great> results.
>
> I am a little worried that the AH OC will not leave enough vavle-stem
> exposed to pump up easily (especially when the tire is flat). I used
> to have this problem with a Campy Lambda rim, and I hated it so much
> that I no longer use that wheel. What have others found?
>
> Thanks, Jenn

I have no problems with normal 55mm valves. I can't even get shorter
stem valves which irritates me for my low profile box section rims
that look silly with huge stems! But the Aerohead OC works fine with
"normal" long stem valves.

Joseph

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 17, 5:42 pm, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 17, 5:44 am, Donga <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 17, 3:01 am, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > thejen12 wrote:
> > > > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > > > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > > > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > > > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > > > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > > > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > > > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > > > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > > > saddle.
>
> > > > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > > > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > > > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > > > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > > > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > > > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > > > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > > Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
> > > hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
> > > front will be durable for you.
>
> > > After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
> > > are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.
>
> > > p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
> > > rigid in the vertical.
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
> > put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
> > presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
> > my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
> > figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
> > Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
> > that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?
>
> > Donga
>
> If you take the time to measure the tension differences on any OC rim
> you will see that the left side tension is much higher on a OC rim
> than a standard one-a GOOD thing. Remember the very strongest wheels
> are ones with equal tension left and right so anything you can do to
> raise tension on the left will help.

I have 2 sets of road wheels I use regularly. One a 36 hole Aerohead/
OC setup, the other a 32 hole Deep-V setup. There is a defininite
difference between the two which I attribute to the greater tension
difference in the non-OC Deep-V. Occasionaly over just the right shape
dip, the Deep-V wheel will flex in a way that I feel it "sproing"
momentarily. This never happens on the Aerohead-OC wheel. Admittedly,
the Aerohead wheels were professionally build by folks who know what
they are doing (A contributor to this thread!) and the Deep-V's were
built by me, but I don't think that is the cause. So I am a firm
beliver in the idea that more even side-to-side tension is a good
thing. My zero-dish (ie same left right tension) track wheels (which I
built) also never "sproing" over dips.

Joseph



> 'Dents on the flat side of 2 with a cateye, computer? That does not
> compute, what do you mean? I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great
> results.

 

[thejen12]

On Apr 17, 10:04 am, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 17, 6:24 pm, thejen12 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 17, 8:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great> results.
>
> > I am a little worried that the AH OC will not leave enough vavle-stem
> > exposed to pump up easily (especially when the tire is flat). I used
> > to have this problem with a Campy Lambda rim, and I hated it so much
> > that I no longer use that wheel. What have others found?
>
> > Thanks, Jenn
>
> I have no problems with normal 55mm valves. I can't even get shorter
> stem valves which irritates me for my low profile box section rims
> that look silly with huge stems! But the Aerohead OC works fine with
> "normal" long stem valves.
>
> Joseph

Hmm, I use the Michelin A1 Aircomp tubes with 36mm valves. Does
anyone have experience using something like that with the Aerohead
OC? (Joseph, you should mail order some of these if you can't find
them locally!) I really don't want to switch to longer valve-stems,
partly because I recently bought a "life-time" supply of these tubes,
and partly because if I run out on the road and need a spare tube,
chances are it will have the traditional short valve-stem.

Jenn

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 17, 7:36 pm, thejen12 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 17, 10:04 am, "[email protected]"
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Apr 17, 6:24 pm, thejen12 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 17, 8:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I have build hundreds of AH OCs with great> results.
>
> > > I am a little worried that the AH OC will not leave enough vavle-stem
> > > exposed to pump up easily (especially when the tire is flat). I used
> > > to have this problem with a Campy Lambda rim, and I hated it so much
> > > that I no longer use that wheel. What have others found?
>
> > > Thanks, Jenn
>
> > I have no problems with normal 55mm valves. I can't even get shorter
> > stem valves which irritates me for my low profile box section rims
> > that look silly with huge stems! But the Aerohead OC works fine with
> > "normal" long stem valves.
>
> > Joseph
>
> Hmm, I use the Michelin A1 Aircomp tubes with 36mm valves. Does
> anyone have experience using something like that with the Aerohead
> OC? (Joseph, you should mail order some of these if you can't find
> them locally!) I really don't want to switch to longer valve-stems,
> partly because I recently bought a "life-time" supply of these tubes,
> and partly because if I run out on the road and need a spare tube,
> chances are it will have the traditional short valve-stem.
>
> Jenn

Actually, I use the Michelin A2's on my OC wheels with the 25 P2R
tires. The short 36mm stem works fine with my floor pump, and with my
SKS Airboy mini-pump. I like the A2's because they are big and I like
the smooth (as opposed to threaded) stem.

Around here chances are it will be long out on the road!

Joseph

 

[thejen12]

On Apr 17, 10:47 am, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Actually, I use the Michelin A2's on my OC wheels with the 25 P2R
> tires. The short 36mm stem works fine with my floor pump, and with my
> SKS Airboy mini-pump. I like the A2's because they are big and I like
> the smooth (as opposed to threaded) stem.
>
> Joseph- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Oh, good point! My experiment with wider tires (25 P2R and 25 GP4000)
is very new. So far they are working okay with the A1s, though. But
A2s may be the order of the day if I ever run out of A1s (I hardly
ever get flats).

Jenn

 

[Jay Beattie]

On Apr 17, 4:44 am, Donga <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 17, 3:01 am, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > thejen12 wrote:
> > > I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
> > > decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
> > > and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>
> > > I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
> > > to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
> > > (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
> > > varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
> > > climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
> > > saddle.
>
> > > Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
> > > think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
> > > 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>
> > > One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> > > rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> > > 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> > > difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?
>
> > Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
> > hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
> > front will be durable for you.
>
> > After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
> > are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.
>
> > p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
> > rigid in the vertical.
> > --
> > Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
> put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
> presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
> my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
> figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
> Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
> that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?
>
> Donga- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Not a gimmick, but also not the most durable rim for a heavy rider
(like me). They are light and not very resistant to sidewall damage.
OTOH, you get much more even spoke tension; they stay true, and there
is less of a likelihood of spoke hole cracking due to over
tensioning. I am going to start hunting around for an OC rim that is
more stout, although OC is not as important in a stout rim that can
handle the high right side tension without cracking, etc.. -- Jay
Beattie.

 

[Ron Ruff]

On Apr 15, 10:17 pm, "thejen12" <[email protected]> wrote:
> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?

I guess there is at least a consensus here that any wheel does not
deflect enough radially to make a difference. Tires can make a
noticeable difference though. Ideally you want a supple tire with low
rolling resistance that you would inflate to fairly low pressures
(~80psi). Pro2s are a good tire and have low rolling resistance, but
the 25mm model apparently has thicker tread and possibly a heavier
casing. At your weight I'd recommend the 23mm model... which is really
~24mm. An even better option would be the Vittoria Corsa in 23mm.
Conti tires have poor rolling resistance.

Tubes... for a competition use latex tubes. Vredestein and Michelin
make good ones. They are good for about a 10% reduction in rolling
resistance and improve the ride according to some sensitive folks.

On Apr 16, 8:50 am, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I've changed my mind. The answer is always aero.

I agree that if you are looking for the best performance, aerodynamics
would have a bigger effect than anything else. You pay a big weight
penalty though with rims like Deep Vs and DT 1.2s... which actually
weight ~560g each... or about 150g more apiece compared to Aeroheads.
And for someone who weighs only 125lb that just doesn't seem right to
me. Especially when you can get Niobium 30 rims which have a similar
profile to a Deep V but weigh 100g less each. I've been riding a set
of these with CX-Rays 18f 21r for 2,000 miles now and they are as true
as new, and seem plenty solid for my 165lb. I think 18f 24r would be a
better build for most people though (better long term durability).
With light hubs like White Industries H1, the weight of the wheels is
only 1425g, and they would be as aerodynamic as any aluminum rimmed
wheel.

Joseph! If your Deep V wheels are making funny noises over dips, your
spoke tension is probably too low... or maybe uneven. Have you checked
it?

On Apr 17, 9:42 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]>
wrote:
> If you take the time to measure the tension differences on any OC rim
> you will see that the left side tension is much higher on a OC rim
> than a standard one-a GOOD thing. Remember the very strongest wheels
> are ones with equal tension left and right so anything you can do to
> raise tension on the left will help.

OC rims are a good idea if you are using a shallow rim, but if you use
a deeper aero rim (non OC) the wheel can be even stronger. For one
thing the aero rim is radially stiffer so the cyclic spoke
detensioning is less. The problem you are solving with the OC rim is
the *low* tension on the NDS and the tendency for those spokes to go
slack... not tension imbalance. A deeper rim can take a higher spoke
tension, so you can end up with higher NDS tension than with an OC rim
like the Aerohead. Or you can even lace them triplet style with only
half as many spokes on the NDS, and end up even tension side to side.

To "thejen12", the most important thing to consider in your new wheels
is a good build... it can make a big difference in how trouble free
the wheels are and how long they last.

 

[A Muzi]

>> thejen12 wrote:
>>> I just got a new bike and want to get new wheels. I'm trying to
>>> decide on rims, Velocity Aerohead or Razor? The aerohead is lighter
>>> and has the offset rear. The razor is more box-style and has eyelets.
>>> I'm a 125 lb. woman, not a power rider. I want comfort, but also like
>>> to climb. Which would you build up for a ride like the Death Ride?
>>> (That's about 130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing in one day, on
>>> varying road conditions.) You would want the light weight for
>>> climbing, but don't want to get beat up spending all day in the
>>> saddle.
>>> Also, I was thinking of 28 spoke front, 32 spoke rear - or do you
>>> think with my weight I could go with a 28 spoke rear as well? Would a
>>> 32 spoke rear provide a more comfortable ride?
>>> One more question - how would tire choice affect comfort compared to
>>> rim choice? I will be riding Michelin Pro 2 Race 25's or Conti GP
>>> 4000 25's. Do you think that with the right tire inflation, the
>>> difference between the two rim styles would be moot (comfort-wise)?

> A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Aerohead OC offset rear rims are much stronger if you have modern 8/9/10
>> hubs. Sure 32h rear _may_ be adequate but 32h _will_ be durable. 28
>> front will be durable for you.
>>
>> After that, your aesthetic evaluations for color, polish or rim sections
>> are all fine. We prefer the Michelins but others have their own taste, YMMV.
>>
>> p.s. rims do not have a 'comfort' component. They are all virtually
>> rigid in the vertical.

Donga wrote:
> Am I the only person who has had problems with Aerohead OCs? I have
> put dents in the flat side of two and had to throw them away. I
> presume this was from a glancing blow on a cateye - and yes I do pump
> my tires! I've gone back to using the 'normal' rim without offset. I
> figured these have given years of good service to millions of riders.
> Even though the dishing looks nasty, it still seems to work OK. If
> that's so, is the OC anything more than a gimmick?

Well, we like them. As in all things cycling, opinions vary because
people have different criteria for each decision.

The excessive right side tension of our previous favorite clincher, the
Campagnolo Montreal, was annoying and we felt unsure of the wheel's
longevity with the left spokes dangling. (On a symmetric rim, it's
something like 65% of right) Spoke tension differential is something we
observe directly whereas although some riders dent light clincher rims,
most riders get suitably good mileage.

We like the seam finish - they arrive round - as well as excellent
service. Here, we get a Velocity package 4 days a week with rims for
that day's wheels. Even with a huge inventory the product variety now is
daunting so we need service. Of course, if we were in Alaska or Oregon
or Maine we wouldn't get the prompt delivery we've come to expect.

No, you are not the only rider with rim dents on a modern 400g clincher.
You can always change to tubulars if clincher rim dents are a problem !
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971