Verbruggen and Cross

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Tritonrider, Feb 4, 2003.

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  1. Tritonrider

    Tritonrider Guest

    From todays Cyclingnews

    Speaking on Belgium's Radio 1, Verbruggen said "We must not have the ambition that cyclo-cross will
    conquer the world. Cyclo-cross is doomed to stay popular at the regional level."

    Verbruggen doesn't see cyclo-cross fitting into his "globalisation" model of cycling. He added that
    he "wasn't cheering" about Sunday's Belgian clean sweep. "It is difficult to sell the sport to
    sponsors and TV."

    "I firmly believe that cyclo-cross is a sport that has a hard core of fans in eight Western European
    countries. But therefore we must not want to make it a worldwide spectacle."

    Verbruggen also said that he wasn't interested in expanding it to other European countries, such as
    Scandinavia. "From Poland onwards, it's always very cold," he said. Also ruled out was the
    possibility that it become an Olympic sport. "Cyclo-cross doesn't require snow and ice, therefore it
    couldn't be part of the Winter Olympics. And for the Summer Games, cyclo-cross also can't be
    considered, because ultimately it is a winter sport."

    Did you ever get the feeling that he still thinks the world is flat, the sun is still shining on
    the empire, and aeroplanes will never be practical. His track record speaks for itself. I am
    surprised that cycling hasn't collapsed even more than it has under his dubious leadership. His
    record on dealing with drugs, sponsors, bike manufacturers, and the press has been weak at best.
    Why do I think that when he sees the future of racing he sees in black and white, everyone is
    wearing wool, and using downtube shifters. Cross should be a fairly easy sell to at least Euro TV.
    It happens when everyone is in winter mode looking for something to watch. Would not have to be
    expensive to cover as it's at a single location not point to point. It has lots of fast action
    over a short period of time. It's very spectator friendly and the crowds put on a good show too.
    Oh, well just my $0.02 Bill C
     
    Tags:


  2. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    Only popular in the 8 western euro countries? How do you explain ME "racing" cross in San Diego this
    winter?? Geez, get your head out of your ass Verbruggen

    Mike "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > From todays Cyclingnews
    >
    > Speaking on Belgium's Radio 1, Verbruggen said "We must not have the
    ambition
    > that cyclo-cross will conquer the world. Cyclo-cross is doomed to stay
    popular
    > at the regional level."
    >
    > Verbruggen doesn't see cyclo-cross fitting into his "globalisation" model
    of
    > cycling. He added that he "wasn't cheering" about Sunday's Belgian clean
    sweep.
    > "It is difficult to sell the sport to sponsors and TV."
    >
    > "I firmly believe that cyclo-cross is a sport that has a hard core of fans
    in
    > eight Western European countries. But therefore we must not want to make
    it a
    > worldwide spectacle."
    >
    > Verbruggen also said that he wasn't interested in expanding it to other European countries, such
    > as Scandinavia. "From Poland onwards, it's always
    very
    > cold," he said. Also ruled out was the possibility that it become an
    Olympic
    > sport. "Cyclo-cross doesn't require snow and ice, therefore it couldn't be
    part
    > of the Winter Olympics. And for the Summer Games, cyclo-cross also can't
    be
    > considered, because ultimately it is a winter sport."
    >
    > Did you ever get the feeling that he still thinks the world is flat, the
    sun
    > is still shining on the empire, and aeroplanes will never be practical.
    > His track record speaks for itself. I am surprised that cycling hasn't
    > collapsed even more than it has under his dubious leadership. His record
    on
    > dealing with drugs, sponsors, bike manufacturers, and the press has been
    weak
    > at best. Why do I think that when he sees the future of racing he sees in black and white,
    > everyone is wearing wool, and using downtube shifters. Cross should be a fairly easy sell to at
    > least Euro TV. It happens when everyone is in winter mode looking for something to watch. Would
    > not have
    to be
    > expensive to cover as it's at a single location not point to point. It has
    lots
    > of fast action over a short period of time. It's very spectator friendly
    and
    > the crowds put on a good show too. Oh, well just my $0.02 Bill C
     
  3. "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > From todays Cyclingnews
    >
    > Speaking on Belgium's Radio 1, Verbruggen said "We must not have the
    ambition
    > that cyclo-cross will conquer the world. Cyclo-cross is doomed to stay
    popular
    > at the regional level."
    >
    > Verbruggen doesn't see cyclo-cross fitting into his "globalisation" model
    of
    > cycling. He added that he "wasn't cheering" about Sunday's Belgian clean
    sweep.
    > "It is difficult to sell the sport to sponsors and TV."
    >
    > "I firmly believe that cyclo-cross is a sport that has a hard core of fans
    in
    > eight Western European countries. But therefore we must not want to make
    it a
    > worldwide spectacle."
    >
    > Verbruggen also said that he wasn't interested in expanding it to other European countries, such
    > as Scandinavia. "From Poland onwards, it's always
    very
    > cold," he said. Also ruled out was the possibility that it become an
    Olympic
    > sport. "Cyclo-cross doesn't require snow and ice, therefore it couldn't be
    part
    > of the Winter Olympics. And for the Summer Games, cyclo-cross also can't
    be
    > considered, because ultimately it is a winter sport."
    >
    > Did you ever get the feeling that he still thinks the world is flat, the
    sun
    > is still shining on the empire, and aeroplanes will never be practical.
    > His track record speaks for itself. I am surprised that cycling hasn't
    > collapsed even more than it has under his dubious leadership. His record
    on
    > dealing with drugs, sponsors, bike manufacturers, and the press has been
    weak
    > at best. Why do I think that when he sees the future of racing he sees in black and white,
    > everyone is wearing wool, and using downtube shifters. Cross should be a fairly easy sell to at
    > least Euro TV. It happens when everyone is in winter mode looking for something to watch. Would
    > not have
    to be
    > expensive to cover as it's at a single location not point to point. It has
    lots
    > of fast action over a short period of time. It's very spectator friendly
    and
    > the crowds put on a good show too. Oh, well just my $0.02 Bill C

    If ABC Sports could sell barrel jumping from Lake Placid, 'cross should be an easy sell. And do
    be careful, Bill. You sound a bit like me and you don't want those Monkeys trying to imitate
    you too. :)

    Brian Lafferty
     
  4. nferyn

    nferyn New Member

    Joined:
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    I totally agree. I hope Verbruggen's reign doesn't last long anymore.

    Cyclocross is probably the most spectator - and broadcast - friendly of all cycling events (duration, closed circuit, action, spectacular) and it should - with some promotion - even be easy to sell to non cycling countries.

    Anyway, although I have nothing against track racing, I think Verbruggens efforts to globalise cycling through track racing is not the most cost effective of ways one can come up with.

    Cyclo Cross should have some meaningfull competitors that don't come from Belgium, Holland or the Tchech Republic

    Niek
     
  5. --
    "nferyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Tritonrider wrote:
    > > From todays Cyclingnews Speaking on Belgium's Radio 1, Verbruggen said "We must not have the
    > > ambition that cyclo-cross will conquer the world. Cyclo-cross is
    doomed
    > > to stay popular at the regional level." Verbruggen doesn't see cyclo-cross fitting into his
    > > "globalisation" model of cycling. He added that he "wasn't cheering" about Sunday's Belgian
    > > clean sweep. "It is difficult to sell the sport to sponsors and TV." "I firmly believe that
    > > cyclo-cross is a sport that has a hard core of fans in eight Western European countries. But
    > > therefore we must not
    want
    > > to make it a worldwide spectacle." Verbruggen also said that he wasn't interested in expanding
    > > it to
    other
    > > European countries, such as Scandinavia. "From Poland onwards, it's always very cold," he
    > > said. Also ruled out was the possibility that it become an Olympic sport. "Cyclo-cross doesn't
    > > require snow and ice, therefore it couldn't be part of the Winter Olympics. And for the
    Summer
    > > Games, cyclo-cross also can't be considered, because ultimately it is
    a
    > > winter sport." Did you ever get the feeling that he still thinks the world is flat, the sun is
    > > still shining on the empire, and aeroplanes will never be practical. His track record speaks
    > > for itself. I am surprised that cycling hasn't collapsed even more than it has under his
    > > dubious leadership. His record on dealing with drugs, sponsors, bike manufacturers, and the
    > > press has been weak at best. Why do I think that when he sees the future of racing he sees in
    > > black and white, everyone is wearing wool, and using downtube shifters. Cross should
    be
    > > a fairly easy sell to at least Euro TV. It happens when everyone is
    in
    > > winter mode looking for something to watch. Would not have to be expensive to cover as it's
    > > at a single location not point to point.
    It
    > > has lots of fast action over a short period of time. It's very spectator friendly and the
    > > crowds put on a good show too. Oh, well just my $0.02 Bill C
    >
    >
    >
    > I totally agree. I hope Verbruggen's reign doesn't last long anymore.

    Look for Hein to move on to the top level of the IOC. He was in the running to replace Jaun
    Antonio, but the drugs scandals in cycling have aparently blocked that for this IOC
    presidential round.

    Brian Lafferty
     
  6. Tritonrider

    Tritonrider Guest

    >From: nferyn [email protected]

    Anyway, although I have nothing against track racing, I think Verbruggens efforts to globalise
    cycling through track racing is not the most cost effective of ways one can come up with. Cylo Cross
    should have some meaningfull competitors that don't come
    >from Belgium, Holland or the Tchech Republic
    >
    >Niek

    One of the big problems with track is the initial investment required and upkeep. If you've been
    following the discussions here it's awfully tough to come up with the money to build and sustain
    a Velodrome. With Cross you have a much smaller recurring charge for course repair afterwards
    and cleanup but no huge initial outlay. Track racing is cool, but you really need to have some
    idea what is going on to enjoy and understand it. Cross races are pretty straightforward and TV
    viewer friendly as far as action and how it works. It's going to take time for other countries
    to catch up to Belgium, their Cross racers are national heroes. I'm not sure how you get there
    though. Do you need a "star" to make it popular, or does it grow like MTB did? Hopefully
    Laffertys right and Verbruggen goes to the IOC, they deserve each other, and someone with newer
    ideas takes over. Bill C.
     
  7. In article <[email protected]>, TritonRider <[email protected]> wrote:

    > >From: nferyn [email protected]
    >
    > Anyway, although I have nothing against track racing, I think Verbruggens efforts to globalise
    > cycling through track racing is not the most cost effective of ways one can come up with. Cylo
    > Cross should have some meaningfull competitors that don't come
    > >from Belgium, Holland or the Tchech Republic
    > >
    > >Niek
    >
    > One of the big problems with track is the initial investment required and upkeep. If you've been
    > following the discussions here it's awfully tough to come up with the money to build and sustain
    > a Velodrome. With Cross you have a much smaller recurring charge for course repair afterwards and
    > cleanup but no huge initial outlay.
    >
    The main problem with track racing in the U.S. is that everyone who talks about building a track
    wants to build a track capable of hosting the world chapionships. These tracks are very expensive
    and naturally most efforts to build such a track fail. A very basic starter track could be built for
    a couple hundred thousand dollars. This amount really isn't that much ( compared to the several
    million most "World Class" track projects poeple talk about building). A basic starter track is also
    much cheaper to maintain compared to the world class tracks.

    Casey
     
  8. Hein VerMoron posted the following directly to r.b.r.:

    > "I firmly believe that cyclo-cross is a sport that has a hard core of fans in eight Western
    > European countries. But therefore we must not want to make it a worldwide spectacle."
    >

    Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world, then how
    does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?

    At the risk of asking a Hansenesque question, has Hein ever ridden a bike?

    Props to any r.b.r. contributor who can post a picture of Hein aboard a bike at any point
    in his life.

    -RJ
     
  9. On 5 Feb 2003 07:49:38 -0800, Ronaldo Jeremiah wrote:
    >Props to any r.b.r. contributor who can post a picture of Hein aboard a bike at any point in
    >his life.

    Damn, I can't find one. Verbruggen got started in cycling as salesmanager of the Dutch Mars-bar
    factory in the seventies, when he embraced Joop Zoetemelk (who else?) as a member of the Mars
    Flandria pro cycling team.
     
  10. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    [email protected] (Ronaldo Jeremiah) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world, then
    > how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?

    Ouch!
     
  11. [email protected] (Ronaldo Jeremiah) wrote in message
    >
    > Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world, then
    > how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?

    Like the NBA, NFL and MLB?
     
  12. Ken Papai

    Ken Papai Guest

    "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]
    > (fake) wrote in message
    > >
    > > Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world, then
    > > how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?
    >
    > Like the NBA, NFL and MLB?

    MLB and the NBA certainly have a significant percentage of foreign-born players.

    Basketball and Soccer are probably the two most widely played team sports in the world.

    So, since the best league ("division one") in the world is the NBA then naturally the NBA champs
    team should rightfully carry the world champs title as well.

    -Ken
     
  13. "Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]
    > > (fake) wrote in message
    > > >
    > > > Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world,
    > > > then how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?
    > >
    > > Like the NBA, NFL and MLB?
    >
    > MLB and the NBA certainly have a significant percentage of foreign-born players.
    >
    > Basketball and Soccer are probably the two most widely played team sports in the world.
    >
    > So, since the best league ("division one") in the world is the NBA then naturally the NBA champs
    > team should rightfully carry the world champs title as well.

    The winner of the "World Series" in MLB wouldn't necessarily win vs. the rest of the world. The
    professional leagues in Cuba and Japan are good. I'd wager that if a championship of the pro leagues
    was held, MLB would lose once or twice every ten years.

    As for basketball, a US team full of NBA players lost 3 times in last summer's World Championships
    in Indianapolis. They had the most talent, but didn't play together well. They got schooled by
    squads which played good defense and ran disciplined motion offenses. Many a backdoor layup was had
    vs. the unenergetic US defense.
     
  14. "Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > > > Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world,
    > > > then how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?
    > >
    > > Like the NBA, NFL and MLB?
    >
    > MLB and the NBA certainly have a significant percentage of foreign-born players.
    >
    > Basketball and Soccer are probably the two most widely played team sports in the world.
    >
    > So, since the best league ("division one") in the world is the NBA then naturally the NBA champs
    > team should rightfully carry the world champs title as well.
    >

    MLB probably has about as many players from different countries as the NHL does, but they call their
    championship the Stanley Cup w/o an unofficial world championship attached to it.

    We've been down this path before. As I've said in the past, no thread ever dies. It just goes away
    for awhile.
     
  15. In article <[email protected]>, Ken Papai <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]
    > > (fake) wrote in message
    > > >
    > > > Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world,
    > > > then how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?
    > >
    > > Like the NBA, NFL and MLB?
    >
    > MLB and the NBA certainly have a significant percentage of foreign-born players.
    >
    > Basketball and Soccer are probably the two most widely played team sports in the world.
    >
    > So, since the best league ("division one") in the world is the NBA then naturally the NBA champs
    > team should rightfully carry the world champs title as well.
    >
    Of course this argument overlooks the fact that there is an international governing body for
    basketball which conducts a real world championship.

    Casey
     
  16. Ken Papai wrote:

    > So, since the best league ("division one") in the world is the NBA then naturally the NBA champs
    > team should rightfully carry the world champs title as well.

    Ken, Can you go and tell the Yugoslavs that please? They are under the impression that they won
    the World Basketball Championships in Indiana last year. Oh, and New Zealand finished ahead of
    the US. STF
     
  17. Amit

    Amit Guest

    "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<M6Y%[email protected]>...
    > Only popular in the 8 western euro countries? How do you explain ME "racing" cross in San Diego
    > this winter?? Geez, get your head out of your ass Verbruggen
    >

    Right that makes it's popular. In this case I think Hein is more clued in than you are.

    It's the same few riders that do the races. The only reason there are so many 'cross races is
    because it's the easiest kind of race to put on (which is good).

    -Amit
     
  18. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    If the racing around here is any indication, then 'cross is on the way up, rather than down. Seems
    more and more people are getting into 'cross. While I'm not close to being a pro, there has to be
    something to this 'cross thing if we're racing in San Diego.

    We had season long series both here an LA, I know that there were races in the DC area, Tenn, etc.
    Its kinda like mtn biking was when I first started: a few dedicated types convincing their friends
    to try it, who convince their friends, etc.

    Mike "Amit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<M6Y%[email protected]>...
    > > Only popular in the 8 western euro countries? How do you explain ME "racing" cross in San Diego
    > > this winter?? Geez, get your head out of
    your
    > > ass Verbruggen
    > >
    >
    > Right that makes it's popular. In this case I think Hein is more clued in than you are.
    >
    > It's the same few riders that do the races. The only reason there are so many 'cross races is
    > because it's the easiest kind of race to put on (which is good).
    >
    > -Amit
     
  19. "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > Its kinda like mtn biking was when I first started: a few dedicated types convincing their friends
    > to try it, who convince
    their
    > friends, etc.
    >

    Like multilevel marketing.
     
  20. In article <[email protected]>, "Demetrius di Carravallo"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]
    > > > (fake) wrote in message
    > > > >
    > > > > Hein, if cyclocross is a regional sport with no potential to involve the rest of the world,
    > > > > then how does your organization justify holding a world championship in it?
    > > >
    > > > Like the NBA, NFL and MLB?
    > >
    > > MLB and the NBA certainly have a significant percentage of foreign-born players.
    > >
    > > Basketball and Soccer are probably the two most widely played team sports in the world.
    > >
    > > So, since the best league ("division one") in the world is the NBA then naturally the NBA champs
    > > team should rightfully carry the world champs title as well.
    >
    > The winner of the "World Series" in MLB wouldn't necessarily win vs. the rest of the world. The
    > professional leagues in Cuba and Japan are good. I'd wager that if a championship of the pro
    > leagues was held, MLB would lose once or twice every ten years.

    Despite the popular misapprehension, the "World Series" was named for its original title sponsor,
    the New York World (a newspaper). I suppose it has taken on other meanings since then, but the World
    Series name is just an accident of history, not an assertion of global supremacy.

    There has been little player exchange between the MLB and Cuban leagues, but I find it educational
    that several elite Japanese players have come to the MLB and thrived, while in the other direction
    MLB players in their twilight years have gone to Japan to play a few more productive years. It
    suggests that the differences in play between Japan and the MLB are not large, but that however you
    analyze it, the MLB is the superior league.

    > As for basketball, a US team full of NBA players lost 3 times in last summer's World Championships
    > in Indianapolis. They had the most talent, but didn't play together well. They got schooled by
    > squads which played good defense and ran disciplined motion offenses. Many a backdoor layup was
    > had vs. the unenergetic US defense.

    There's a Nobel prize in Athletics awaiting the NBA coach who actually implements a disciplined set
    of offensive and defensive plays.

    ObBike: almost makes you glad there's not much money in cycling, eh?

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
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