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Thorsten Schier wrote:
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb: <snip>
> > On sense of hunger perhaps but not on quantity. Quantity and quality are *independent*
> > variables.
>
> I don't know how that works for you, but for me the quantity of food that I eat is strongly
> influenced by my sense of hunger.
>
Not if you are following the 2PD approach.
>
> > > Many people find it easier to control their food intake, when they eat less carbohydrates,
> > > particularly those with a high glycemic index.
> >
> > Many people find it easier to control their food intake when they can quantify the amount they
> > are eating.
> >
> > Check out the unsolicited testimonials at:
> >
> >
http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp
>
> Works better with a dot in place of the third slash.
>
Sorry about that. It is fixed now.
>
> A few remarks to the text on this site:
>
> "In 1998, my wife and I watched an IMAX film about climbing Mt. Everest and learned that despite
> their exhausting regimen, the climbers consumed only 10 lbs of food per week. That's less than 2
> lbs. of food per day! Since none of the climbers died from starvation, I think it is safe to
> assume that 2 lbs. per day should be more than adequate for us non-climbing folks."
>
> 1. The climbers will most likely have eaten calorie dense food like chocolate as they would want
> to carry as little as possible.
>
It is 10 pounds. The choices on what to eat is climber dependent. Some like carbs and others like
proteins. They will bring what they like to eat because it is treacherous climbing Mt. Everest. Who
knows which meal will be their last.
>
> 2. They might well have lost a part of their body weight, even if they were not overweight to
> begin with.
So what if they did?
> People can usually live without any food at all for a limited period of time.
Who said anything about fasting?
> That is no proof that it is healthy to eat next to nothing all of the time (of course I'm not
> claiming that 2 lbs is next to nothing,
Then why write it?
> my point is that the short term survival of these climbers does not proof that an average person
> could survive on the same amount or a somewhat larger one indefinitly).
The climbers were a source of inspiration for the 2PD approach rather than a proof of either safety
or efficacy.
>
> 3. Even people who don't die from starvation might be malnourished.
Not in my experience as a physician who has been recommending the 2PD approach to his patients since
1998. I have seen no cases of beriberi, scurvy, etc in any of my patients.
>
> "What I learned was that my obese patients was consuming between 8 to 12 lbs. of food per day! "
>
> I have a hard time believing that the average obese person could eat that much food.
My guess is that you are not obese.
> Unless perhaps if a considerable part of it are juices or sodas or the like.
They do count.
>
> Regarding to your testimonials:
>
> There does not seem not be much in the way of people who have actually tried the diet and lost
> weight with it. Most people seem to argue from a theoretical point of view, not from personal
> experience.
>
Does there need to be?
>
> On the other hand, for low-carb diets, there are plenty of people who lost considerable amounts of
> weight with these diets. Just have a look at alt.support.diet.low-carb
If that were true, why the need for "support" then?
>
> While I think that portion control is certainly important (although this is hardly news) there are
> two things that disturb me about the two-pound-diet:
>
> 1. The "one size fits all" approach.
>
> Should a sedentary 5 ft female really consume the same amount of food as a 6 ft active male?
>
If that female is obese, she should eat less and not care how much others are eating.
>
> 2. What we eat is just as important as the amount we eat. This seems to be neglected in this
> aproach.
The 2PD approach helps obese folks lose weight permanently.
>
> Let's say a person eats 10 lbs of food (the average of food you claimed your obese neighbours were
> eating). Let's further say that half of that is soda, the rest french fries, potatoes, meat,
> sauces, bread, bacon, eggs and occasionally an apple or some vegetables. Now your advice would be
> to just reduce the amount they are eating and clean up the diet later.
My advice would be to have them ask their doctors about supervising them for the 2PD approach.
> Then the person would consume one pound of soda and one pound of rest of the food, thereby further
> reducing what little they ate in the way of vegetables and fruits. They will probably lose weight
> on this diet, if they can stick to it, but I don't think there is anything healthy about such a
> diet, if only for the reason that they wouldn't get enough vitamins, minerals and fiber.
If their doctors are concerned, they may opt to prescribe supplements. Ime, folks following the 2PD
approach don't need supplements. Two pounds is plenty of food for a day.
Thank you for your comments.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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Thorsten Schier wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
<br><snip>
<br>> On sense of hunger perhaps but not on quantity. Quantity and
quality
<br>> are *independent* variables.
<p>I don't know how that works for you, but for me the quantity of food
<br>that I eat is strongly influenced by my sense of hunger.
<br> </blockquote>
Not if you are following the 2PD approach.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>> > Many people find it easier to control their food intake, when
<br>> > they eat less carbohydrates, particularly those with a high glycemic
<br>> > index.
<br>>
<br>> Many people find it easier to control their food intake when they
can
<br>> quantify the amount they are eating.
<br>>
<br>> Check out the unsolicited testimonials at:
<br>>
<br>> <a href="
http://www/heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp">
http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp</a>
<p>Works better with a dot in place of the third slash.
<br> </blockquote>
Sorry about that. It is fixed now.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>A few remarks to the text on this site:
<p>"In 1998, my wife and I watched an IMAX film about climbing Mt. Everest
<br>and learned that despite their exhausting regimen, the climbers consumed
<br>only 10 lbs of food per week. That's less than 2 lbs. of food per day!
<br>Since none of the climbers died from starvation, I think it is safe
to
<br>assume that 2 lbs. per day should be more than adequate for us
<br>non-climbing folks."
<p>1. The climbers will most likely have eaten calorie dense food like
<br>chocolate as they would want to carry as little as possible.
<br> </blockquote>
It is 10 pounds. The choices on what to eat is climber dependent.
Some like carbs and others like proteins. They will bring what they
like to eat because it is treacherous climbing Mt. Everest. Who knows
which meal will be their last.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>2. They might well have lost a part of their body weight, even if they
<br>were not overweight to begin with.</blockquote>
So what if they did?
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>People can usually live without any
<br>food at all for a limited period of time.</blockquote>
Who said anything about fasting?
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>That is no proof that it is
<br>healthy to eat next to nothing all of the time (of course I'm not
<br>claiming that 2 lbs is next to nothing,</blockquote>
Then why write it?
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>my point is that the short term
<br>survival of these climbers does not proof that an average person could
<br>survive on the same amount or a somewhat larger one indefinitly).</blockquote>
The climbers were a source of inspiration for the 2PD approach rather than
a proof of either safety or efficacy.
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>3. Even people who don't die from starvation might be malnourished.</blockquote>
Not in my experience as a physician who has been recommending the 2PD approach
to his patients since 1998. I have seen no cases of beriberi, scurvy,
etc in any of my patients.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>"What I learned was that my obese patients was consuming between 8
to 12
<br>lbs. of food per day! "
<p>I have a hard time believing that the average obese person could eat
<br>that much food.</blockquote>
My guess is that you are not obese.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Unless perhaps if a considerable part of it are juices
<br>or sodas or the like.</blockquote>
They do count.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>Regarding to your testimonials:
<p>There does not seem not be much in the way of people who have actually
<br>tried the diet and lost weight with it. Most people seem to argue from
a
<br>theoretical point of view, not from personal experience.
<br> </blockquote>
Does there need to be?
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>On the other hand, for low-carb diets, there are plenty of people who
<br>lost considerable amounts of weight with these diets. Just have a look
<br>at alt.support.diet.low-carb</blockquote>
If that were true, why the need for "support" then?
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>While I think that portion control is certainly important (although
this
<br>is hardly news) there are two things that disturb me about the
<br>two-pound-diet:
<p>1. The "one size fits all" approach.
<p>Should a sedentary 5 ft female really consume the same amount of food
as
<br>a 6 ft active male?
<br> </blockquote>
If that female is obese, she should eat less and not care how much others
are eating.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>2. What we eat is just as important as the amount we eat. This seems
to
<br>be neglected in this aproach.</blockquote>
The 2PD approach helps obese folks lose weight permanently.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>Let's say a person eats 10 lbs of food (the average of food you claimed
<br>your obese neighbours were eating). Let's further say that half of
that
<br>is soda, the rest french fries, potatoes, meat, sauces, bread, bacon,
<br>eggs and occasionally an apple or some vegetables. Now your advice
would
<br>be to just reduce the amount they are eating and clean up the diet
<br>later.</blockquote>
My advice would be to have them ask their doctors about supervising them
for the 2PD approach.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Then the person would consume one pound of soda and
one pound of
<br>rest of the food, thereby further reducing what little they ate in
the
<br>way of vegetables and fruits. They will probably lose weight on this
<br>diet, if they can stick to it, but I don't think there is anything
<br>healthy about such a diet, if only for the reason that they wouldn't
get
<br>enough vitamins, minerals and fiber.</blockquote>
If their doctors are concerned, they may opt to prescribe supplements.
Ime, folks following the 2PD approach don't need supplements. Two
pounds is plenty of food for a day.
<p>Thank you for your comments.
<p>Humbly,
<p>Andrew
<p>--
<br>Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
<br>Board-Certified Cardiologist
<br><A HREF="
http://www.heartmdphd.com/">
http://www.heartmdphd.com/</A>
<br> </html>
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Must remember to send a "thank you" note to Dr. Willett for giving