Vinegar?

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Doug Cutler, Feb 6, 2004.

  1. Doug Cutler

    Doug Cutler Guest

    Hi, Does anybody here make their own vinegar, in particular the Red Wine type? Doug.
     
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  2. Doug Cutler wrote:
    > Hi, Does anybody here make their own vinegar, in particular, the Red Wine type?

    Not from scratch. I do buy apple cider vinegar at the health food store, the sort with active mother
    at the bottom, and add leftover red wine to it (plus several garlic cloves). According the original
    instructions, it should be ready after a week, but I just add wine whenever I have a little leftover
    and use the vinegar whenever I need it. I don't pay attention to the exact timing.

    --Lia
     
  3. Louis Cohen

    Louis Cohen Guest

    It's very easy. We got a ceramic jug with a tap from Sur la Table, but you can use a glass jar, as
    long as you keep light out and let air in (eg, close the jar with a cloth rather than the lid).

    A friend gave us part of her vinegar mother (the bacteria culture), but you can start your own
    from scratch.

    We dump into the jug any wine left in the bottom of glasses or bottles, occasionally topping up with
    cheap red wine direct from the jug/box.

    The vinegar tastes great - we draw off a bit to use in salad dressing or marinades/sauces.

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ----
    Louis Cohen Living la vida loca at N37° 43' 7.9" W122° 8' 42.8"

    "Doug Cutler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi, Does anybody here make their own vinegar, in particular the Red Wine
    type?
    > Doug.
     
  4. Leo

    Leo Guest

    "Doug Cutler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi, Does anybody here make their own vinegar, in particular the Red Wine
    type?

    Yes..good wine will make good vinegar. Just buy some and add a touch of vinegar to it to get it
    churning... bingo it will mother up and under the mother a great vinegar will brew. Give it some
    time. Any nice red works. Don't use cheeeeeep stuff.. or you will get some nasty vinegar.

    leo
     
  5. "Doug Cutler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi, Does anybody here make their own vinegar, in particular the Red Wine
    type?
    > Doug.
    >
    >

    Not intentionally ;-P

    Jack Essigallons
     
  6. Jiminy

    Jiminy Guest

    On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:25:33 GMT, "leo" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Yes..good wine will make good vinegar. Just buy some and add a touch of vinegar to it to get it
    >churning... bingo it will mother up and under the mother a great vinegar will brew. Give it some
    >time. Any nice red works. Don't use cheeeeeep stuff.. or you will get some nasty vinegar.

    the "process" is important - good wine not necessarly make a good vinegar - ask to the Modena's
    people that produce balsamic...

    and also you cannot make good vinegar with bottled wine...

    sorry, but that is :) best,

    Jiminy
     
  7. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Jiminy wrote:

    > On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:25:33 GMT, "leo" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Yes..good wine will make good vinegar. Just buy some and add a touch of vinegar to it to get it
    >>churning... bingo it will mother up and under the mother a great vinegar will brew. Give it some
    >>time. Any nice red works. Don't use cheeeeeep stuff.. or you will get some nasty vinegar.

    Most commercial vinegars are pasteurized so the acetobacters are dead. Producers do that so they
    don't get a lot of "Eeeew there's some yucky rubbery crap in my vinegar, I want my money back" kinds
    of phone calls.

    Just pouring vinegar into wine or cider or whatever won't make vinegar. You need a live culture of
    acetobacters. Buy one from a brew store. Most will carry proven ones.

    > the "process" is important - good wine not necessarly make a good vinegar

    True. The wine, the specific culture, the container it's working in and lots of other variables
    determine how good the vinegar is.

    - ask to the Modena's people that produce balsamic...
    >
    > and also you cannot make good vinegar with bottled wine...

    Sure you can. I've done it for years.

    Bob P
     
  8. Leo

    Leo Guest

    "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Just pouring vinegar into wine or cider or whatever won't make vinegar. You need a live culture of
    > acetobacters. Buy one from a brew

    Yes adding vinegar to wine will start the culture.. try it..

    also been doing this for some years.. and it works perfectly..

    leo
     
  9. Jiminy

    Jiminy Guest

    On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 19:28:59 -0500, Bob <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Most commercial vinegars are pasteurized so the acetobacters are dead.

    >> and also you cannot make good vinegar with bottled wine...
    >
    >Sure you can. I've done it for years.

    ...but bottled wine isn't pasteurized?

    best,

    Jiminy
     
  10. Bob

    Bob Guest

    leo wrote:
    > "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>Just pouring vinegar into wine or cider or whatever won't make vinegar. You need a live culture of
    >>acetobacters. Buy one from a brew
    >
    > Yes adding vinegar to wine will start the culture.. try it..

    Did you simply not read what I wrote? See, that's why I specifically mentioned pasteurized vinegars.
    Nowadays, it's virtually impossible to buy commercial vinegar that's not filtered and pasteurized.
    Blame it on the lawyers.

    > also been doing this for some years.. and it works perfectly..

    It works if you use unpasteurized vinegar that has enough acetobacters to begin a colony and the
    wine isn't overly fortified or had preservatives added. But buying a strong mother colony will make
    the whole process go faster and towards a more predictable result.

    Then it'll work.

    Bob
     
  11. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Jiminy wrote:

    > On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 19:28:59 -0500, Bob <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Most commercial vinegars are pasteurized so the acetobacters are dead.
    >
    >>>and also you cannot make good vinegar with bottled wine...
    >>
    >>Sure you can. I've done it for years.
    >
    > ...but bottled wine isn't pasteurized?

    No, it isn't. But it also doesn't contain viable acetobacters or it would "turn."

    Bob
     
  12. Leo

    Leo Guest

  13. Bob

    Bob Guest

    leo wrote:

    > "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Nowadays, it's virtually impossible to
    >>buy commercial vinegar that's not filtered and pasteurized. Blame it on the lawyers. Bob
    >
    > It is extremely easy and possible to buy commercial vinegar that is NOT filtered and NOT
    > pasteurized.
    >
    > http://www.zooscape.com/cgi-bin/maitred/GreenCanyon/questp101193

    Swell. $5 for a pint of vinegar that the manufacturers don't even know much about. Must be flying
    off the shelves for them to cut the price so drastically from $8.

    I have another issue for them, however. If the mother is still viable, it's still making acetic
    acid. That means the acidity (5%) will change. If there's no more nutrient for the mother to live
    on, the acidity will stay constant. Getting the vinegar to a standardized 5% means dilution from the
    stuff that comes out of the barrel. Or it means there's still alcohol in it.

    They say: "Apple Cider Vinegar - Organic - Unfiltered - Unpasteurized - 16 oz - 500 mL"

    "List: $7.93 US Was: $5.95 US Save: $2.98 US (37%) New Price: $4.95 US

    Organic, Raw, Unfiltered, with the 'Mother' Certified Bragg Organic Raw Apple Cider Vinegar is
    unfiltered, unheated, unpasteurized and 5% acidity. Contains the amazing Mother of Vinegar which
    occurs naturally as strand-like chains of connected protein molecules. (If sediment occurs, shake
    before using.)"

    "Strand-like chains of..." It's a colony of bacteria.

    In like their lack of understanding of this, too: "Pasteurization: "Is the heating process intended
    to remove potential problem bacteria from consumable liquids such as milk, juices etc. However the
    heat process of pasteurization will also remove delicate nutrients and enzymes that may constitute a
    major portion of the nutritional value of that food."

    Enzymes? Do humans use plant enzymes? Really? Major portion of the nutritional value of the food?

    They go on: "In the case of Bragg's Raw Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, pasteurization would eliminate
    the "mother", a major health-giving factor of our vinegar. The strand of complex proteins constitute
    important delicate enzymes that are a major part of Bragg ACV's health properties."

    They don't know what's happening in their own bottles. They don't know what the mother is.
    Or is not.

    But, yes, unpasteurized vinegar can be found. Just not conveniently. And not with full trust that
    I'd be getting what they say.

    Bob
     
  14. Leo

    Leo Guest

    "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Bob
    >

    Thanks for the posts. You obviously know the subject matter. Agreed that you will have more control
    buying a clean starter. I never do but may try it sometime. I have gotten some really good
    results..maybe just dumb luck. OT .. I also brew..brew..and get some really good batches IMOP. Even
    tried growing hops..not so good of results..:)

    peace..

    leo
     
  15. Sophie

    Sophie Guest

    On 06/02/04 15:07, in article [email protected], "Louis
    Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > It's very easy. We got a ceramic jug with a tap from Sur la Table, but you can use a glass jar, as
    > long as you keep light out and let air in (eg, close the jar with a cloth rather than the lid).
    >
    > A friend gave us part of her vinegar mother (the bacteria culture), but you can start your own
    > from scratch.
    >
    > We dump into the jug any wine left in the bottom of glasses or bottles, occasionally topping up
    > with cheap red wine direct from the jug/box.
    >
    > The vinegar tastes great - we draw off a bit to use in salad dressing or marinades/sauces.

    If you keep leftover wine in contact with air, adding a little vinegar for a starter, you end up
    with good vinegar after a couple of weeks. Just add your leftover red wine every time you have the
    opportunity.

    The mass of greyish gunk that is commonly called "the mother" is actually not a "mother" at all and
    doesn't help create vinegar. It is nothing but a mass of dead bacteria. The true "mother" is a small
    bacterial film that forms on the surface of the wine, this film appears by itself, and the grey gunk
    is what this bacterial film becomes when it's dead. It is actually recommended to remove that gunk
    regularly so that it doesn't "choke" the liquid and blocks the process.

    If you want to make white wine vinegar too, use a different container and drop only your white wine
    leftovers in it. I use wine bottles, covering their tops with muslin secured with a rubber band.
     
  16. Jiminy

    Jiminy Guest

    On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:59:27 +0100, Sophie
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >If you keep leftover wine in contact with air, adding a little vinegar for a starter, you end up
    >with good vinegar after a couple of weeks. Just add your leftover red wine every time you have the
    >opportunity.
    >
    >The mass of greyish gunk that is commonly called "the mother" is actually not a "mother" at all and
    >doesn't help create vinegar. It is nothing but a mass of dead bacteria. The true "mother" is a
    >small bacterial film that forms on the surface of the wine, this film appears by itself, and the
    >grey gunk is what this bacterial film becomes when it's dead. It is actually recommended to remove
    >that gunk regularly so that it doesn't "choke" the liquid and blocks the process.
    >
    >If you want to make white wine vinegar too, use a different container and drop only your white wine
    >leftovers in it. I use wine bottles, covering their tops with muslin secured with a rubber band.

    just add some milk to the wine and you get the so-called "mother"... just add some bread crumb and
    you get clarified vinegar...

    best,

    Jiminy
     
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