Vinegar?



D

Doug Cutler

Guest
Hi, Does anybody here make their own vinegar, in particular the Red Wine type? Doug.
 
J

Julia Altshuler

Guest
Doug Cutler wrote:
> Hi, Does anybody here make their own vinegar, in particular, the Red Wine type?

Not from scratch. I do buy apple cider vinegar at the health food store, the sort with active mother
at the bottom, and add leftover red wine to it (plus several garlic cloves). According the original
instructions, it should be ready after a week, but I just add wine whenever I have a little leftover
and use the vinegar whenever I need it. I don't pay attention to the exact timing.

--Lia
 
L

Louis Cohen

Guest
It's very easy. We got a ceramic jug with a tap from Sur la Table, but you can use a glass jar, as
long as you keep light out and let air in (eg, close the jar with a cloth rather than the lid).

A friend gave us part of her vinegar mother (the bacteria culture), but you can start your own
from scratch.

We dump into the jug any wine left in the bottom of glasses or bottles, occasionally topping up with
cheap red wine direct from the jug/box.

The vinegar tastes great - we draw off a bit to use in salad dressing or marinades/sauces.

--
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Louis Cohen Living la vida loca at N37° 43' 7.9" W122° 8' 42.8"

"Doug Cutler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi, Does anybody here make their own vinegar, in particular the Red Wine
type?
> Doug.
 
L

Leo

Guest
"Doug Cutler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi, Does anybody here make their own vinegar, in particular the Red Wine
type?

Yes..good wine will make good vinegar. Just buy some and add a touch of vinegar to it to get it
churning... bingo it will mother up and under the mother a great vinegar will brew. Give it some
time. Any nice red works. Don't use cheeeeeep stuff.. or you will get some nasty vinegar.

leo
 
J

Jiminy

Guest
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:25:33 GMT, "leo" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Yes..good wine will make good vinegar. Just buy some and add a touch of vinegar to it to get it
>churning... bingo it will mother up and under the mother a great vinegar will brew. Give it some
>time. Any nice red works. Don't use cheeeeeep stuff.. or you will get some nasty vinegar.

the "process" is important - good wine not necessarly make a good vinegar - ask to the Modena's
people that produce balsamic...

and also you cannot make good vinegar with bottled wine...

sorry, but that is :) best,

Jiminy
 
B

Bob

Guest
Jiminy wrote:

> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:25:33 GMT, "leo" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Yes..good wine will make good vinegar. Just buy some and add a touch of vinegar to it to get it
>>churning... bingo it will mother up and under the mother a great vinegar will brew. Give it some
>>time. Any nice red works. Don't use cheeeeeep stuff.. or you will get some nasty vinegar.

Most commercial vinegars are pasteurized so the acetobacters are dead. Producers do that so they
don't get a lot of "Eeeew there's some yucky rubbery **** in my vinegar, I want my money back" kinds
of phone calls.

Just pouring vinegar into wine or cider or whatever won't make vinegar. You need a live culture of
acetobacters. Buy one from a brew store. Most will carry proven ones.

> the "process" is important - good wine not necessarly make a good vinegar

True. The wine, the specific culture, the container it's working in and lots of other variables
determine how good the vinegar is.

- ask to the Modena's people that produce balsamic...
>
> and also you cannot make good vinegar with bottled wine...

Sure you can. I've done it for years.

Bob P
 
L

Leo

Guest
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Just pouring vinegar into wine or cider or whatever won't make vinegar. You need a live culture of
> acetobacters. Buy one from a brew

Yes adding vinegar to wine will start the culture.. try it..

also been doing this for some years.. and it works perfectly..

leo
 
J

Jiminy

Guest
On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 19:28:59 -0500, Bob <[email protected]> wrote:

>Most commercial vinegars are pasteurized so the acetobacters are dead.

>> and also you cannot make good vinegar with bottled wine...
>
>Sure you can. I've done it for years.

...but bottled wine isn't pasteurized?

best,

Jiminy
 
B

Bob

Guest
leo wrote:
> "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>Just pouring vinegar into wine or cider or whatever won't make vinegar. You need a live culture of
>>acetobacters. Buy one from a brew
>
> Yes adding vinegar to wine will start the culture.. try it..

Did you simply not read what I wrote? See, that's why I specifically mentioned pasteurized vinegars.
Nowadays, it's virtually impossible to buy commercial vinegar that's not filtered and pasteurized.
Blame it on the lawyers.

> also been doing this for some years.. and it works perfectly..

It works if you use unpasteurized vinegar that has enough acetobacters to begin a colony and the
wine isn't overly fortified or had preservatives added. But buying a strong mother colony will make
the whole process go faster and towards a more predictable result.

Then it'll work.

Bob
 
B

Bob

Guest
Jiminy wrote:

> On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 19:28:59 -0500, Bob <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Most commercial vinegars are pasteurized so the acetobacters are dead.
>
>>>and also you cannot make good vinegar with bottled wine...
>>
>>Sure you can. I've done it for years.
>
> ...but bottled wine isn't pasteurized?

No, it isn't. But it also doesn't contain viable acetobacters or it would "turn."

Bob
 
B

Bob

Guest
leo wrote:

> "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Nowadays, it's virtually impossible to
>>buy commercial vinegar that's not filtered and pasteurized. Blame it on the lawyers. Bob
>
> It is extremely easy and possible to buy commercial vinegar that is NOT filtered and NOT
> pasteurized.
>
> http://www.zooscape.com/cgi-bin/maitred/GreenCanyon/questp101193

Swell. $5 for a pint of vinegar that the manufacturers don't even know much about. Must be flying
off the shelves for them to cut the price so drastically from $8.

I have another issue for them, however. If the mother is still viable, it's still making acetic
acid. That means the acidity (5%) will change. If there's no more nutrient for the mother to live
on, the acidity will stay constant. Getting the vinegar to a standardized 5% means dilution from the
stuff that comes out of the barrel. Or it means there's still alcohol in it.

They say: "Apple Cider Vinegar - Organic - Unfiltered - Unpasteurized - 16 oz - 500 mL"

"List: $7.93 US Was: $5.95 US Save: $2.98 US (37%) New Price: $4.95 US

Organic, Raw, Unfiltered, with the 'Mother' Certified Bragg Organic Raw Apple Cider Vinegar is
unfiltered, unheated, unpasteurized and 5% acidity. Contains the amazing Mother of Vinegar which
occurs naturally as strand-like chains of connected protein molecules. (If sediment occurs, shake
before using.)"

"Strand-like chains of..." It's a colony of bacteria.

In like their lack of understanding of this, too: "Pasteurization: "Is the heating process intended
to remove potential problem bacteria from consumable liquids such as milk, juices etc. However the
heat process of pasteurization will also remove delicate nutrients and enzymes that may constitute a
major portion of the nutritional value of that food."

Enzymes? Do humans use plant enzymes? Really? Major portion of the nutritional value of the food?

They go on: "In the case of Bragg's Raw Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, pasteurization would eliminate
the "mother", a major health-giving factor of our vinegar. The strand of complex proteins constitute
important delicate enzymes that are a major part of Bragg ACV's health properties."

They don't know what's happening in their own bottles. They don't know what the mother is.
Or is not.

But, yes, unpasteurized vinegar can be found. Just not conveniently. And not with full trust that
I'd be getting what they say.

Bob
 
L

Leo

Guest
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Bob
>

Thanks for the posts. You obviously know the subject matter. Agreed that you will have more control
buying a clean starter. I never do but may try it sometime. I have gotten some really good
results..maybe just dumb luck. OT .. I also brew..brew..and get some really good batches IMOP. Even
tried growing hops..not so good of results..:)

peace..

leo
 
S

Sophie

Guest
On 06/02/04 15:07, in article [email protected], "Louis
Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote:

> It's very easy. We got a ceramic jug with a tap from Sur la Table, but you can use a glass jar, as
> long as you keep light out and let air in (eg, close the jar with a cloth rather than the lid).
>
> A friend gave us part of her vinegar mother (the bacteria culture), but you can start your own
> from scratch.
>
> We dump into the jug any wine left in the bottom of glasses or bottles, occasionally topping up
> with cheap red wine direct from the jug/box.
>
> The vinegar tastes great - we draw off a bit to use in salad dressing or marinades/sauces.

If you keep leftover wine in contact with air, adding a little vinegar for a starter, you end up
with good vinegar after a couple of weeks. Just add your leftover red wine every time you have the
opportunity.

The mass of greyish gunk that is commonly called "the mother" is actually not a "mother" at all and
doesn't help create vinegar. It is nothing but a mass of dead bacteria. The true "mother" is a small
bacterial film that forms on the surface of the wine, this film appears by itself, and the grey gunk
is what this bacterial film becomes when it's dead. It is actually recommended to remove that gunk
regularly so that it doesn't "choke" the liquid and blocks the process.

If you want to make white wine vinegar too, use a different container and drop only your white wine
leftovers in it. I use wine bottles, covering their tops with muslin secured with a rubber band.
 
J

Jiminy

Guest
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:59:27 +0100, Sophie
<coyotitaMORESPAM.PLEASE[email protected]> wrote:

>If you keep leftover wine in contact with air, adding a little vinegar for a starter, you end up
>with good vinegar after a couple of weeks. Just add your leftover red wine every time you have the
>opportunity.
>
>The mass of greyish gunk that is commonly called "the mother" is actually not a "mother" at all and
>doesn't help create vinegar. It is nothing but a mass of dead bacteria. The true "mother" is a
>small bacterial film that forms on the surface of the wine, this film appears by itself, and the
>grey gunk is what this bacterial film becomes when it's dead. It is actually recommended to remove
>that gunk regularly so that it doesn't "choke" the liquid and blocks the process.
>
>If you want to make white wine vinegar too, use a different container and drop only your white wine
>leftovers in it. I use wine bottles, covering their tops with muslin secured with a rubber band.

just add some milk to the wine and you get the so-called "mother"... just add some bread crumb and
you get clarified vinegar...

best,

Jiminy