Vino tested positive!

[IH8LANCE]

I say again -- let them dope. They all do it, and testing merely identifies the unlucky ones.

Anyone who has any success these days is already criticized as a doper anyway. Gee look at Raz and Alberto going up that hill -- they must be dopers. If that's the case, why have we excluded Basso, Ullrich, Petacchi, and the rest? With their presence, this Tour would be no more tainted, but far more interesting to the casual cycling fan. Free Vino! Free Ulle! Free Ivan! Down with the doping control oppressors.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Agreed. To take a homologous transfusion is pure stupidity!!! What was he thinking?

I think the question is: Is this Ferrari first **** up ? Which doctor conducted his blood doping ?

 

[Trajectum]

Agreed. To take a homologous transfusion is pure stupidity!!! What was he thinking?

The same as floyd last year i suppose.. He was bound to get caught doing something so dumb but they cldnt cope with accepting defeat and are adicted to the short term glory. Also quite unprepared i might add.. If he had planned on boosting his red cell count during the tour before this tour started he could at least have stored some of his own plasm.

Astana is also out of the tour because of this by the way. They step out.

 

[saluki]

I have to agree with Poulidor on this one. I think that most of us have strongly suspected Vino for some time now. The only thing that is strange about it is that Vino got caught. The guy is no dummy. I have a feeling that he has the proceedures to avoid detection down to an art. So what happened. In this case it could have been an act of desperation. Vino, after expecting to win the Tour, was having a horrible time of it. He felt like he needed something to take away from the race and to give to his Kazakastan money machine. This caused him to take chances that he might not otherwise take - dope at times and in doses that he might not do in other circumstances. Also, this Tour was to be his last hurrah. If he didn't dope he would clearly come away empty handed. So he had little to loose.

 

[Cobblestones]

I think the question is: Is this Ferrari first **** up ? Which doctor conducted his blood doping ?

If that's a **** up, it's a ****ing huge **** up. Assume Ferrari took the wrong blood bag, Vino should be lucky. It could have been an incompatible blood type.

Professional cycling gets shafted again. The top 2 in the TdF are deeply implicated, the whole Astana team is going out, we had Sinkewitz before and a whole lot of other riders (Kessler, Pettachi, Mazzoleni etc.) under investigation.

 

[donrhummy]

They've got to fix this system. If they're going to test, they need to test guys early in the morning and have the results of the test BEFORE the stage starts. Coming out with test results days later makes the event something you don't care to watch. Imagine if in other sports like baseball, you went to a world series game and your team won. They celebrate on the field and you are excited watching your favorite player get MVP. Then 3 days later they announce that they actually lost the game and they're taking away the championship. Would you ever go to another baseball game? (Especially if this were a common thing)

 

[Bro Deal]

I like Millar's initial response:

[size=-1]"Jesus Christ - there you go, that's my quote," he blurted out. "What timing, huh? This is just ****ing great."

I don't think it's Dr. Ferrari's fault. The current evidence indicates that Ferrari gives the training and doping plans but no longer handles the dope himself. Maybe his clients use the network in Valencia that is rumored to exist.

The question I have is what happened. Was it a mix up in blood bags? Did they think the homologous blood test was no longer being used? After Tyler got busted I cannot imagine that anyone would be using blood other than their own unless they believed that the test was no longer in use, which I have heard but never seen confirmed.

[/size]

 

[saluki]

Armstrong is confident both Contador and Levi Leipheimer - currently fourth - will be on the Champs-Elysees podium.

"I think that's a real possibility," he said. "I do."

A quick call to his boys at the LABS, fark up Vino get Astan off the race... it's the only chance we have of getting that peice of luggage on the podium.

There were no Astana riders in front of the two Disco riders. And do you think that Armstrong has friends at Châtenay-Malabry? ROFLMAO.

Also, a nice translation by the paper. Armstrong talks about "a real possibility" and the paper says "confident they will". Where would we be without the media to translate reality for us?

 

[helmutRoole2]

I think the question is: Is this Ferrari first **** up ? Which doctor conducted his blood doping ?

I don't think so. I think this was a teammates blood, or a coach's. I'd bet they disassembled a blood spinner into so many pieces that it avoided detection in the mechanic's tool chest and then they put it back together, pulled some blood from a coach, spun it, put it in Vino. I bet he was betting that they would be testing for someone else's blood.

Total conspiracy theory, but anyone got anything better?

 

[helmutRoole2]

There were no Astana riders in front of the two Disco riders. And do you think that Armstrong has friends at Châtenay-Malabry? ROFLMAO.

Also, a nice translation by the paper. Armstrong talks about "a real possibility" and the paper says "confident they will". Where would we be without the media to translate reality for us?

You're probably right, but I have to say, I've heard some very convincing conspiracy theories ref. Tyler Hamilton positive. Something about Armstrong supplying the financing to perfect the test or he gave WADA the funds for the equipment and said something like, "How about seeing if it works on my old friend Tyler..." It goes something like that.

DoctorHouse can fill in the details.

 

[fbircher]

It'll be interesting to see if the ASO actually go after him for the year's salary he agreed to pay as a penalty if something like this happened. A year's salary for Vino is probably a pretty big number. Will Glorious Nation step in and bail him out?

 

[Tonto]

I have to agree with Poulidor on this one. I think that most of us have strongly suspected Vino for some time now. The only thing that is strange about it is that Vino got caught. The guy is no dummy. I have a feeling that he has the proceedures to avoid detection down to an art. So what happened. In this case it could have been an act of desperation. Vino, after expecting to win the Tour, was having a horrible time of it. He felt like he needed something to take away from the race and to give to his Kazakastan money machine. This caused him to take chances that he might not otherwise take - dope at times and in doses that he might not do in other circumstances. Also, this Tour was to be his last hurrah. If he didn't dope he would clearly come away empty handed. So he had little to loose.

If he had been caught for a high haematocrit level then I'd think, yeah, he got desperate and juiced up too much without considering the testing schedule. But it seems he was caught for having two different types of red blood cells which implies a genuine f*ck up eg. mixed up bags, machine not cleaned out properly.

Astana pulling out entirely stinks as well. This is a f*cking farce......again.

 

[Bro Deal]

I don't think so. I think this was a teammates blood, or a coach's. I'd bet they disassembled a blood spinner into so many pieces that it avoided detection in the mechanic's tool chest and then they put it back together, pulled some blood from a coach, spun it, put it in Vino. I bet he was betting that they would be testing for someone else's blood.

Total conspiracy theory, but anyone got anything better?

This one is hard to come up with a reasonable explanation. Why didn't they use Vino's own blood? I assume that Vino spent the early season and the end of last year having blood drawn. Did they have problems smuggling it into France?

The only thing I can think of is either a colossal **** up or a moment of stupidity. I did mention that there seems to be some confustion as to whether the homologous test is being used. Hamilton claims that the UCI stopped using it after his hearings, but I think I remember seeing something from the UCI that it was being used. Maybe they only use it when they suspect someone. If they had been advised that using someone else's blood would not be detected then it would not have been so stupid. I still think anyone would have to willing to take a big risk after what happened to Hamilton.

 

[jsull14]

This sucks! Vino was my favorite rider. What a dumbass. Astana just signed on for 10 years as sponsor. That is screwed now I bet.

 

[Espada9]

I don't think so. I think this was a teammates blood, or a coach's. I'd bet they disassembled a blood spinner into so many pieces that it avoided detection in the mechanic's tool chest and then they put it back together, pulled some blood from a coach, spun it, put it in Vino. I bet he was betting that they would be testing for someone else's blood.

Total conspiracy theory, but anyone got anything better?

That’s just bad science, if you wanted to increase your red cell count and had access to transfusion equipment and a centrifuge all you would have to do is take a few pints of your OWN blood, separate the plasma from the red cells and reintroduce it at a later date, why use someone else’s blood?

You couldn’t pay me enough to place someone else’s blood into my body.

 

[helmutRoole2]

This one is hard to come up with a reasonable explanation. Why didn't they use Vino's own blood? I assume that Vino spent the early season and the end of last year having blood drawn. Did they have problems smuggling it into France?

I think that's your answer.

The only thing I can think of is either a colossal **** up or a moment of stupidity. I did mention that there seems to be some confustion as to whether the homologous test is being used. Hamilton claims that the UCI stopped using it after his hearings, but I think I remember seeing something from the UCI that it was being used. Maybe they only use it when they suspect someone. If they had been advised that using someone else's blood would not be detected then it would not have been so stupid. I still think anyone would have to willing to take a big risk after what happened to Hamilton.

Yes, and I think the peloton also learned it's lesson from Landis, who over reacted to getting his ass handed to him on stage 16. I think it was in house... rather, in hotel, and the blood belonged to a team employee.

The officials are looking for bags of blood. They're not looking for disassembled blood spinners.

I've got to say it. I think I've got the best theory so far.

 

[helmutRoole2]

That’s just bad science, if you wanted to increase your red cell count and had access to transfusion equipment and a centrifuge all you would have to do is take a few pints of your OWN blood, separate the plasma from the red cells and reintroduce it at a later date, why use someone else’s blood?

You couldn’t pay me enough to place someone else’s blood into my body.

Come on, dude. Pull your head out.

They can't get bags of blood past the media, the policia, the race officials. It had to be someone else's blood.

There is no "reintroduce it at a later date." A later date is after the Tour, right?

 

[Eagle10]

Vino Vino Vino

Why oh why did you do this. I am a huge fan of yours and was excited about another win Wednesday and another win on the last TT.

OMG What have you done. You could have left with your head held up high, people loved you for being a warrior after that terrible fall.

Now what shame, people around the world will look at you a different way and the money you will lose not only from your lost 10 year contract as TD but all the endorsements.

Please tell me you only took something for pain and the reading is incorret.

I am sad for all the Astana team, sad for the tour and sad for the winners.
This will event will over shadow the final week of the TDF.

The fun of the tour has completely gone for me. All aside from what is wrong I will miss the excitement that Vino brought to the race.

 

[Espada9]

Come on, dude. Pull your head out.

They can't get bags of blood past the media, the policia, the race officials. It had to be someone else's blood.

There is no "reintroduce it at a later date." A later date is after the Tour, right?

Please explain to me then doctor why would it be easier to transfuse someone else’s blood than your own? Do you even know how this process works? I’m just an idiot who happens to work in the biotech industry so I know nothing about pharmaceuticals.

Removing your own blood and using a small centrifuge is just as easy as transfusing someone else’s blood and makes more sense. Foreign blood can have many adverse side effects and unless that person is an elite athlete their blood would lack the physical characteristics of Vino’s and the genetic markers alone would show up in any test.

Please explain to me how it’s easier to transfuse foreign blood rather than your own? And what would be the benefits of using foreign blood???

I’m all ears.

 

[Serafino]

The news couldn't get worse. What a sad situation.

I must say, what a sad legacy Telekom/T-Mobile has left the sport. So many current or former riders busted or admitted doping this year.

With T-Mobile to announce whether they'll continue sponsoring the team on Saturday, there is no doubt that they'll pull out completely IMO.