Vino tested positive!

[Espada9]

I think this is great. Not for Vino of course, I feel sorry for these guys in a way, they are conditioned to dope. But it is great for the Tour and cycling. This proves that the testing protocol can work and is working.

I've said it before, all this conjecture and rumors do nothing but sell newspapers and damage the sport, but positive test puts fear in the dopers and allows for proper sanctioning and adds credibility to the governing bodies.

Did Vino stick it in Klodi or what?

First you make him support you when you have no chance after crash, you do not support him when a podium is in his grasp, then you hog the team for personal glory, then you get him kicked out of the Tour for your doping. I hope Klodi doesn't have a dog, Vino will be at his house tonight looking to kick it.

Fly Chicken, Fly

I’m hoping this finally cracks the doping world wide open, these riders are obviously not doing this alone, none of them have the education or background to do something as sophisticated as what we have seen in the last 10 years regarding doping. I expect to hear more about Armstrong and Rasmussen as well as others.

 

[Espada9]

You're backing off our original statement now, right? You know you can't take blood out, spin it and then put it right back in again, correct? I mean, you can, but there would be no benefit to it, right?

I never said "right back in".

 

[cheapie]

this mean evans gets the win in the TT?

 

[ATM]

No that’s what the centrifuge is for (you DO know what a centrifuge is right). You pull out the heavier red cells and reinject the blood WITHOUT the plasma, the result is an increased hematocrit without any positive biological or chemical markers.

So the end result of what you're describing is removing plasma from the body but keeping the number of red blood cells constant. Correct?

 

[Espada9]

Do you have reading comprehension problems, dude?

Pulling out your own blood then retransfusing it hours later buys you nothing. You end up with the same number of RBCs. The standard technique is to draw the blood, allow a few weeks of micro-dosed EPO recovery and then retransfuse. That's why Fuentes had a metric buttload of riders red cells in cold storage.

What Helmut is saying that if they did not want to risk getting caught smuggling the previously taken RBCs into France, they might have used a staff member. Or a friend or family member. I have often wondered if Hamilton's wife was the source of his foreign blood; she was in on other aspects of his doping.

Yes reading comprehension problems “Bro”

“I think he chose the homoglogous transfusion because he couldn’t afford to remove his own blood during the Tour and pay the physical price of low iron,VO2, etc.”

 

[de don]

Great news! Never liked or trusted Vino and his smug kazaks. Old school rider with old school views, he couldn't care less about cycling or its position. Who else can they catch. I can't believe some peoples views on Vino, how gullable can people be.

Agree totally ..look at the size of him ..I hate him I hate this sport now..he is obviously dirty and always has been. and so are the rest of his team

 

[Espada9]

So the end result of what you're describing is removing plasma from the body but keeping the number of red blood cells constant. Correct?

I give up.

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/cycling/story/0,,1309862,00.html

http://www.elitefitness.com/articledata/efn/041006.html

http://www.slate.com/id/2107096/

 

[redLantern]

I say again -- let them dope. They all do it, and testing merely identifies the unlucky ones.

Anyone who has any success these days is already criticized as a doper anyway. Gee look at Raz and Alberto going up that hill -- they must be dopers. If that's the case, why have we excluded Basso, Ullrich, Petacchi, and the rest? With their presence, this Tour would be no more tainted, but far more interesting to the casual cycling fan. Free Vino! Free Ulle! Free Ivan! Down with the doping control oppressors.

amen . imagine the race we would be having if ulle,hamilton,basso,landis were still competing!!!! . that would make for amazing racing.

 

[helmutRoole2]

I never said "right back in".

I never said you said right back in. I don't know, did I? Anyway, now that Espada9 is tapping out, this still leaves me, the Helmut Man, with the best conspiracy theory thus far.

Anyone else?

 

[saluki]

With T-Mobile to announce whether they'll continue sponsoring the team on Saturday, there is no doubt that they'll pull out completely IMO.

I'm inclined to agree. And they were the Big Daddy Warbucks of cycling. Their exit may well drop overall salaries.

 

[ATM]

I give up.

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/cycling/story/0,,1309862,00.html

http://www.elitefitness.com/articledata/efn/041006.html

http://www.slate.com/id/2107096/

I know how blood doping works. Your posts just implied that there is no need to wait between drawing the blood and reintroducing it. You probably didn't mean to say that but that's how it's being interpreted.

 

[RdBiker]

Ok first a question for someone more into body functioning than me:
if you inject somebody else's blood than you own does it take some time for the body to "take full use of the foreign blood" - I mean do the new red blood cells act as your own cells or does it take some time for them to adapt?
Also, if the red blood cells are slightly incompatible with your own cells are there only two options: works perfectly or you die?

By this I mean that what if didn't necessarily come to full effect immediately as seen on the stage following the TT? In case the foreign cells took their time to adapt to Vino's body his -30min performance would be undestandable vs. the win on the next stage.
Maybe the only *uck up was as stated by Helmut&Bro that Astana couldn't get enough blood to the Tour (maybe even because of the crash on stage 5) and had to use extreme methods.

Just my thoughts - though it would be nice if somebody answered the questions so I know if my idea has any truth behind it.

 

[NJK]

I’m hoping this finally cracks the doping world wide open, these riders are obviously not doing this alone, none of them have the education or background to do something as sophisticated as what we have seen in the last 10 years regarding doping. I expect to hear more about Armstrong and Rasmussen as well as others.

Yes its about time this S*** stops, don't the riders realise that the fans don't care if they win or not, they are not heroes anymore. But don't tell me Vino or Hamilton and co didn't want to dope. Cycling has to get rid of the doctors they only use them for one thing.

 

[helmutRoole2]

Yes reading comprehension problems “Bro”

“I think he chose the homoglogous transfusion because he couldn’t afford to remove his own blood during the Tour and pay the physical price of low iron,VO2, etc.”

Wasn't this your original statement:

That’s just bad science, if you wanted to increase your red cell count and had access to transfusion equipment and a centrifuge all you would have to do is take a few pints of your OWN blood, separate the plasma from the red cells and reintroduce it at a later date, why use someone else’s blood?

Espa, it's the later date part you're having problems with. A later date is too late. He's not going to pull blood during the Tour, he's going to be looking to put it back.

 

[saluki]

I think that Vino is way too smart to go into the Tour with not enough of his own blood to cover his needs. I'm certain that the crash and the subsequent blood loss screwed up all of their calculations. According to Jakshe, taking your own blood, recovering from the loss, and then reinjecting it, is a particularly unpleasant experience. To the point where riders were only willing to go through that a couple of times a year for key races that they wanted to do well in.

 

[helmutRoole2]

Yes its about time this S*** stops, don't the riders realise that the fans don't care if they win or not, they are not heroes anymore. But don't tell me Vino or Hamilton and co didn't want to dope. Cycling has to get rid of the doctors they only use them for one thing.

NJK, you're a fitness consultant. Probably with a little reading on the net, you could prepare these dopoing cocktails. It's pretty much cookbook. If they can Ferarri et al, a bunch of little Ferarris will pop up in his place. Did anyone do the math on how much Fuentes was making?

 

[Eagle10]

Shame this happened prior to another mountain stage. Releasing the news on a flat stage would have really juiced up the day!


Tomorrow will be really interesting.


Again .....anyone PLEASE

What happens if the second test B is negative?????

And how long will that take?

A gal can only hope.

 

[helmutRoole2]

Shame this happened prior to another mountain stage. Releasing the news on a flat stage would have really juiced up the day!


Tomorrow will be really interesting.


Again .....anyone PLEASE

What happens if the second test B is negative?????

And how long will that take?

A gal can only hope.

Well, since it's a gal hoping... B sample seems to take one or two weeks. Call it 10 business days. If it's negative, Vino will thank his lucky stars, WADA will wonder how they ****ed another lab result up and the UCI will welcome Vino back with open arms and blame WADA.

 

[NJK]

NJK, you're a fitness consultant. Probably with a little reading on the net, you could prepare these dopoing cocktails. It's pretty much cookbook. If they can Ferarri et al, a bunch of little Ferarris will pop up in his place. Did anyone do the math on how much Fuentes was making?

Yes i agree. Look at Contador he is doped again add the dots, look at his last climb performances, look at his comments on velonews in march. He thought OP was made up by the media. This is where the UCI should enforce that each rider is only trained by a trainer of the team. Naive maybe but doctors are the core of the problem.

 

[davidbod]

I truely don't understand what he was trying to gain out of this. I guess he thought he really had a chance to still win the Tour. The sad thing is he could have gone on to never win a stage and end up an hour+ behind, but we still would have seen him as a hero. He could have then gone on to retire as a rider with his reputaion intact and be the Astana TD for the next 10 years. Now all of that is completely in the toilet and probably T-Mobile is done now too.