They kept him because he agreed to go along with their new ethical stance.saluki said:
They sacked him because of the results of their new monitoring system
What more did you want them to do? Sign up only first year pros?
Vino tested positive!
- Thread starter olo
- Start date
They sacked him because of the results of their new monitoring system
What more did you want them to do? Sign up only first year pros?
Basically Wiggins says he had his suspicions about anyone finishing above him. Wha does it mean for Evans?
Wiggins reveals suspicions over Vinokourov
British rider says Kazakh's time-trial 'did not add up'
Astana pull out of Tour as police search team hotel
William Fotheringham in Orthez
Wednesday July 25, 2007
The Guardian
Britain's Bradley Wiggins said last night he had always been suspicious of Alexandr Vinokourov's performance in Saturday's time trial after which he tested positive for blood doping, throwing the race into a fresh crisis. "I know how well I went in the time trial, what power output I had," said Wiggins. "I know that in order to put two minutes into me, what power Vino would have had to have put out and the effort he would have had to make and it didn't add up. At the time I was frightened of what I might say.
"I didn't want to accuse people because they had beaten me outright. But when you saw him limping the week before you couldn't help thinking about it." He added "I think everyone has been suspicious of Astana [Vinokourov's team]."
The Olympic track racing champion has a record of speaking out over doping. He finished fifth in the time trial, his best in a long contre la montre in the Tour, and had felt he was in with a chance of the stage win. However, he was well beaten by the Kazakh and he had not wished to express his feelings immediately afterwards.
Wiggins did not know whether he was pleased that a cheat had been caught or depressed about the ramifications for his sport. "At the moment all I know is that I was fourth not fifth. I don't know whether any of the others were up to anything. It starts all sorts of questioning. I'd rather not have known in some ways."
Police last night searched the hotel where Vinokourov and his Astana team were staying. The cyclist himself left the premises at 4.30pm yesterday. Later that evening, 20 gendarmes entered the hotel carrying black bags. These they filled with objects apparently removed from the Astana team bus, which had been the object of a customs search on the motorway south of Toulouse the previous day.
The Tour director, Christian Prudhomme, has expressed his disappointment over the latest scandal and urged riders to remain clean for the good of the sport. "The start in London was a formidable occasion to reconquer," he said. "It has failed. The riders have to understand that they are playing a game of Russian roulette if they are doping. They have to realise that we will never give up the war against doping in which we are involved. Doping ruins our childhood dreams."
Last night the Tour organisers said they had no regrets over inviting Vinokourov and his Astana team to race. However, they added that the current leader, Michael Rasmussen, should not have been brought to the race.
"Rasmussen should not have started the Tour," said Patrice Clerc, the director-general of the organisers, ASO. "In a time of crisis the champion, or anyone who has pretensions to be a champion, has to be exemplary, irreproachable. The attitude of Michael before the race, the casual approach he took in not respecting the administrative rules, should have been known to us, the organisers, and that would have led us to refuse him permission to start the race because he is not an example to the rest of the peloton."
Both the leading British cyclists on the Tour, David Millar and Wiggins said last night that they feared for the future of their sport. Millar, a fervent anti-doping campaigner since serving a two-year ban for the use of erythropoietin, said he felt it would take cycling at least "five to 10 years" to get over its doping problem.
"The bottom line is it is finally good because the controls work, but I am gutted because Vinokourov was one of my favourite riders, the way he raced," said Millar. "This doesn't help the younger generation in the slightest. If you are a fan it must be devastating." Wiggins said he disagreed with Millar over Vinokourov's status as a Tour hero. "David said he was gutted because Vino was one of his heroes, but for me the true heroes are guys like Sylvain Chavanel and Thor Hushovd who are dragging their arses through the mountains, hanging on, getting dropped, and doing it clean." Even so, the Olympic champion's conclusion was trenchant: "It is a disaster for the sport. There will be no cycling in 10 years if this goes on."
Wiggins reveals suspicions over Vinokourov
British rider says Kazakh's time-trial 'did not add up'
Astana pull out of Tour as police search team hotel
William Fotheringham in Orthez
Wednesday July 25, 2007
The Guardian
Britain's Bradley Wiggins said last night he had always been suspicious of Alexandr Vinokourov's performance in Saturday's time trial after which he tested positive for blood doping, throwing the race into a fresh crisis. "I know how well I went in the time trial, what power output I had," said Wiggins. "I know that in order to put two minutes into me, what power Vino would have had to have put out and the effort he would have had to make and it didn't add up. At the time I was frightened of what I might say.
"I didn't want to accuse people because they had beaten me outright. But when you saw him limping the week before you couldn't help thinking about it." He added "I think everyone has been suspicious of Astana [Vinokourov's team]."
The Olympic track racing champion has a record of speaking out over doping. He finished fifth in the time trial, his best in a long contre la montre in the Tour, and had felt he was in with a chance of the stage win. However, he was well beaten by the Kazakh and he had not wished to express his feelings immediately afterwards.
Wiggins did not know whether he was pleased that a cheat had been caught or depressed about the ramifications for his sport. "At the moment all I know is that I was fourth not fifth. I don't know whether any of the others were up to anything. It starts all sorts of questioning. I'd rather not have known in some ways."
Police last night searched the hotel where Vinokourov and his Astana team were staying. The cyclist himself left the premises at 4.30pm yesterday. Later that evening, 20 gendarmes entered the hotel carrying black bags. These they filled with objects apparently removed from the Astana team bus, which had been the object of a customs search on the motorway south of Toulouse the previous day.
The Tour director, Christian Prudhomme, has expressed his disappointment over the latest scandal and urged riders to remain clean for the good of the sport. "The start in London was a formidable occasion to reconquer," he said. "It has failed. The riders have to understand that they are playing a game of Russian roulette if they are doping. They have to realise that we will never give up the war against doping in which we are involved. Doping ruins our childhood dreams."
Last night the Tour organisers said they had no regrets over inviting Vinokourov and his Astana team to race. However, they added that the current leader, Michael Rasmussen, should not have been brought to the race.
"Rasmussen should not have started the Tour," said Patrice Clerc, the director-general of the organisers, ASO. "In a time of crisis the champion, or anyone who has pretensions to be a champion, has to be exemplary, irreproachable. The attitude of Michael before the race, the casual approach he took in not respecting the administrative rules, should have been known to us, the organisers, and that would have led us to refuse him permission to start the race because he is not an example to the rest of the peloton."
Both the leading British cyclists on the Tour, David Millar and Wiggins said last night that they feared for the future of their sport. Millar, a fervent anti-doping campaigner since serving a two-year ban for the use of erythropoietin, said he felt it would take cycling at least "five to 10 years" to get over its doping problem.
"The bottom line is it is finally good because the controls work, but I am gutted because Vinokourov was one of my favourite riders, the way he raced," said Millar. "This doesn't help the younger generation in the slightest. If you are a fan it must be devastating." Wiggins said he disagreed with Millar over Vinokourov's status as a Tour hero. "David said he was gutted because Vino was one of his heroes, but for me the true heroes are guys like Sylvain Chavanel and Thor Hushovd who are dragging their arses through the mountains, hanging on, getting dropped, and doing it clean." Even so, the Olympic champion's conclusion was trenchant: "It is a disaster for the sport. There will be no cycling in 10 years if this goes on."
It seems that one can no longer root for a rider to be clean. They instead must root for them not to get caught.mitosis said:I'm just starting to warm to Contador. He seems to have a heart as big as Vino's. It would seriously **** me off if he is found to have doped - but it wouldn't be surprising, as it wouldn't be surprising if Rasmussen is caught. Seems like Evans may be the only clean rider.
I mean the ITT is his baby - certainly more so than Evans and Vino et al. Maybe the climbs in the ITT allowed Cadel to get over Wiggins? But then Horner smashed the ITT as well...Im not sure what to think anymore but I'm going to stick with Cadel for now - he has a obscene V02 capacity by all reports....i'm clinging to that right now lolwicklow200 said:
I think the real issue is not even who takes the drugs or doesn't take the drugs. I sat down and thought about why I liked cycling and specifically the tour.
The fact of the matter is that with the drugs or without these guys are pretty amazing. Put aside for 30 seconds the fact that Vino tested positive (continue to read because I'm not villifying him). Vino had stitches in his knees he contiued to ride. I can tell you that as keen on cycling as I am I would have burst into tears called for my mother and gone home. This guy is focussed on winning to a staggering point. He shows all the traits that business claims it wants in top achievers
. With or without the drugs they're brave tough athletes. If you do no training and haven't got the will taking epo wont give you that performance. The fact is they're even prepared to risk sacrificing their health to win. Do I admire their feats of endurance drugs or no drugs yes I do but...
When I sat down to ask myself why I watch the tour and other cycling events and why I take part in cycling I realised that it was for
The spectacle
The feats of endurance
The nobility of suffering
The trouble is that the idiots who are doping have removed that third and vital ingredient. There is no nobility in the sport. I can't say to my kids hey watch these guys aren't they amazing. Honest upright and strong - what sportsmen because for whatever reason the traditional values of sport are so blatantly being chucked in the bin) that its too much. They are promoting lieing and being underhand as a way fo life. Hey guys cheat because if you do you win and its fine to cheat as long as you don't get caught. Lie if you have to. Moreni took part in that little protest the other day which called itself the gathering of cyclists with an appropriate attitude or some such thing - what a farce.
How can they stop this. They will never be able to stop it entirely. They could make it better than it is now. If the punishments in place are sufficiently wide ranging that it affects everybody soon you'll get riders simply naming the dopers because their careers are on the line.
Hows about
1) Rasmussens case
Personally I think a professional cyclist in the sport at the moment has no business missing any dope tests (in season or out of season if he holds the sport in any sort of respect) so.
miss a single dope test you get a warning.
miss two and you lose your racing license for life. There is no chance of appeal. No international cycling authority anywhere will let you compete for money. Your racing career is over. Your palmares past and present null and void. Your team is not welcome at any races for the following year.
This would ensure that people make some sort of effort. What is more it would make sure that the teams become a lot harder nosed about who they take on
2) Get a single positive (on either an A sample or a B sample) and it is noted. Get two of them in your career and you lose your racing license (again for life). No chance of appeal - its over. Your palmares null and void.
3) Obviously get a full positive and you're stuffed.
4) If a team gets 2 riders or more who test positive. that means any of the above categories get hit by two riders. They will be unwelcome into any professional races again.
5) If more than 2 teams get caught with doping riders in any event the event is halted and all teams sent home. All resuslt snull and void and winnings to be repaid. All teams fined a punitive amount. All prize money in the next occurence of the event to be withheld to make up for the damage and negative publicity.
This makes the punishments so strict that a single rider realises that the upside might be there if they can get away with it. If they get caught they're likely to have a lot of people pursuing them not only for compensation but for revenge. It wouldn't take the riders to ruin very many races or teams before the sport would finally clean up.
Thought this post might cause a debate
:->
The fact of the matter is that with the drugs or without these guys are pretty amazing. Put aside for 30 seconds the fact that Vino tested positive (continue to read because I'm not villifying him). Vino had stitches in his knees he contiued to ride. I can tell you that as keen on cycling as I am I would have burst into tears called for my mother and gone home. This guy is focussed on winning to a staggering point. He shows all the traits that business claims it wants in top achievers
. With or without the drugs they're brave tough athletes. If you do no training and haven't got the will taking epo wont give you that performance. The fact is they're even prepared to risk sacrificing their health to win. Do I admire their feats of endurance drugs or no drugs yes I do but...
When I sat down to ask myself why I watch the tour and other cycling events and why I take part in cycling I realised that it was for
The spectacle
The feats of endurance
The nobility of suffering
The trouble is that the idiots who are doping have removed that third and vital ingredient. There is no nobility in the sport. I can't say to my kids hey watch these guys aren't they amazing. Honest upright and strong - what sportsmen because for whatever reason the traditional values of sport are so blatantly being chucked in the bin) that its too much. They are promoting lieing and being underhand as a way fo life. Hey guys cheat because if you do you win and its fine to cheat as long as you don't get caught. Lie if you have to. Moreni took part in that little protest the other day which called itself the gathering of cyclists with an appropriate attitude or some such thing - what a farce.
How can they stop this. They will never be able to stop it entirely. They could make it better than it is now. If the punishments in place are sufficiently wide ranging that it affects everybody soon you'll get riders simply naming the dopers because their careers are on the line.
Hows about
1) Rasmussens case
Personally I think a professional cyclist in the sport at the moment has no business missing any dope tests (in season or out of season if he holds the sport in any sort of respect) so.
miss a single dope test you get a warning.
miss two and you lose your racing license for life. There is no chance of appeal. No international cycling authority anywhere will let you compete for money. Your racing career is over. Your palmares past and present null and void. Your team is not welcome at any races for the following year.
This would ensure that people make some sort of effort. What is more it would make sure that the teams become a lot harder nosed about who they take on
2) Get a single positive (on either an A sample or a B sample) and it is noted. Get two of them in your career and you lose your racing license (again for life). No chance of appeal - its over. Your palmares null and void.
3) Obviously get a full positive and you're stuffed.
4) If a team gets 2 riders or more who test positive. that means any of the above categories get hit by two riders. They will be unwelcome into any professional races again.
5) If more than 2 teams get caught with doping riders in any event the event is halted and all teams sent home. All resuslt snull and void and winnings to be repaid. All teams fined a punitive amount. All prize money in the next occurence of the event to be withheld to make up for the damage and negative publicity.
This makes the punishments so strict that a single rider realises that the upside might be there if they can get away with it. If they get caught they're likely to have a lot of people pursuing them not only for compensation but for revenge. It wouldn't take the riders to ruin very many races or teams before the sport would finally clean up.
Thought this post might cause a debate
:->
Quote: Klodifan:-. where is the excitement? a dual between the two wheelsuckers for the last podium spot?
Wheel suckers, you havn't been watching the race obviously. And if they are wheel suckers maybe it's because there clean, and the others arn't. Yes I do strongly believe Cadel is clean!!!!
Wheel suckers, you havn't been watching the race obviously. And if they are wheel suckers maybe it's because there clean, and the others arn't. Yes I do strongly believe Cadel is clean!!!!
Am beginning to wonder if the guys who aren't doping are the guys who ride fewest races.
Dunno whether Armstrong was doping or not. He was never caught. He focussed almost entirely on the TdF. Rode few other races. Perhaps thats why he could recover. Apart from that I suspect that mentally he was just more focussed and more determined to win than any of the others - his near death experience probably gave him that impetus.
That said we will never know. As for the current shocking state of affairs
I think they should declare an amnesty on the pro circuit. If you come clean you're allowed to keep your palmares to this point. You are deemed honest. From this point forward however the rules I outlined in my previous post are in force. If you violate them then you're an ex pro and you lose everything including your career. If you p*ss enough of your colleagues as you destroy your team and the race you might find they hire someone to do you in! As for the current Tour I think all prize money should be withheld and the rest of the race should be ridden as an Etape with all prize money saved given to charity. At least some good and some dignity might come of it.
Dunno whether Armstrong was doping or not. He was never caught. He focussed almost entirely on the TdF. Rode few other races. Perhaps thats why he could recover. Apart from that I suspect that mentally he was just more focussed and more determined to win than any of the others - his near death experience probably gave him that impetus.
That said we will never know. As for the current shocking state of affairs
I think they should declare an amnesty on the pro circuit. If you come clean you're allowed to keep your palmares to this point. You are deemed honest. From this point forward however the rules I outlined in my previous post are in force. If you violate them then you're an ex pro and you lose everything including your career. If you p*ss enough of your colleagues as you destroy your team and the race you might find they hire someone to do you in! As for the current Tour I think all prize money should be withheld and the rest of the race should be ridden as an Etape with all prize money saved given to charity. At least some good and some dignity might come of it.
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