Vinokourov... oh man.... :(

[MikeyOz]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/tourdefrance/team-quits-in-tour-doping-scandal/2007/07/25/1185043125980.html

very disappointing.... I guess have to wait for the b-sample.

Does anybody have a good reference, website or other as to how the testing is done ?

 

[ProfTournesol]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/tourdefrance/team-quits-in-tour-doping-scandal/2007/07/25/1185043125980.html

very disappointing.... I guess have to wait for the b-sample.

Does anybody have a good reference, website or other as to how the testing is done ?

I hope that I'm wrong but it seems that there's one rider still riding above his ability that hasn't been caught yet:-(

 

[Bleve]

On Jul 25, 8:19 am, ProfTournesol <ProfTournesol.2u8...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> MikeyOz Wrote:
>
> >http://www.theage.com.au/news/tourdefrance/team-quits-in-tour-doping-...
>
> > very disappointing.... I guess have to wait for the b-sample.
>
> > Does anybody have a good reference, website or other as to how the
> > testing is done ?
>
> I hope that I'm wrong but it seems that there's one rider still riding
> above his ability that hasn't been caught yet:-(

I've heard rumours about another too, but they're just rumours at this
time. Wait & see .. I guess

 

[Donga]

On Jul 25, 7:29 am, MikeyOz <MikeyOz.2u8...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> http://www.theage.com.au/news/tourdefrance/team-quits-in-tour-doping-...
>
> very disappointing.... I guess have to wait for the b-sample.
>
> Does anybody have a good reference, website or other as to how the
> testing is done ?
>
> --
> MikeyOz

Try this for starters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping

 

[Donga]

On Jul 25, 8:35 am, Donga <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 25, 7:29 am, MikeyOz <MikeyOz.2u8...@no-
>
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> >http://www.theage.com.au/news/tourdefrance/team-quits-in-tour-doping-...
>
> > very disappointing.... I guess have to wait for the b-sample.
>
> > Does anybody have a good reference, website or other as to how the
> > testing is done ?
>
> > --
> > MikeyOz
>
> Try this for starters:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping

Crikey - someone has updated it already to include Vino as the
"notable case"!

 

[TimC]

On 2007-07-24, MikeyOz (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/news/tourd...-doping-scandal/2007/07/25/1185043125980.html
>
> very disappointing.... I guess have to wait for the b-sample.
>
> Does anybody have a good reference, website or other as to how the
> testing is done ?

I'd love to know more about the biology, and about the testing --
the article only says "two distinctive types of red blood cells".

I know nothing about biology, and am not entirely convinced that we
know everything there is to know about biology. I may be talking out
of my ****, but I wonder if elite athletes are who they are because
their body is able to change its chemistry in response to external
stimulus -- self healing in a respect.

It would be really embarrasing, now that Vino is back home, if the B
sample came back negative.

--
TimC
"Mango sorbet is clearcut proof that we have progressed beyond the
bare needs of survival and have progressed to the transcendant."
- Marc Goodman in talk.bizarre

 

[MikeyOz]

Crikey - someone has updated it already to include Vino as the
"notable case"!

I know these guys are obviously very fit.... but what Vino did yesterday is that the sort of performance they get out of doing this stuff ?? It makes that much of a difference between just being able to hold a good pace and getting up the mountain and actually being up to almost sprint up the mountain ??

I remember a while ago the guy who deliberately went out and did it to see what a difference it makes and he basically felt like he could just keep riding all day every day.

I guess the better you are through natural training and genetical makeup, the more benefit you get from the drugs ??

 

[Theo Bekkers]

MikeyOz wrote:
> http://www.theage.com.au/news/tourd...-doping-scandal/2007/07/25/1185043125980.html
>
> very disappointing.... I guess have to wait for the b-sample.

Damn, that's very sad.

Theo

 

[Bleve]

On Jul 25, 9:27 am, MikeyOz <MikeyOz.2u9...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Donga Wrote:
>
>
>
> > Crikey - someone has updated it already to include Vino as the
> > "notable case"!
>
> I know these guys are obviously very fit.... but what Vino did
> yesterday is that the sort of performance they get out of doing this
> stuff ?? It makes that much of a difference between just being able to
> hold a good pace and getting up the mountain and actually being up to
> almost sprint up the mountain ??
>
> I remember a while ago the guy who deliberately went out and did it to
> see what a difference it makes and he basically felt like he could just
> keep riding all day every day.
>
> I guess the better you are through natural training and genetical
> makeup, the more benefit you get from the drugs ??

It depends on the doping practice (doping isn't necessarily drugs,
btw, a homologous blood transfusion is not drugs). Amphetamines
('charging') for example have little physical effect but a huge mental
effect, so you can push yourself a lot harder, blood doping and EPO
work differently, they're aimed at increasing red blood cell count to
enable the body to transport more oxygen, thus increasing aerobic
capacity, and thus, threshold power.

There's a UCI limit to your haemocrit (50%), some riders are natually
close to that, so they benefit little from boosting, others are a lot
lower and have the most potential to benefit from haemocrit boosting,
beit legally through altitude training or illegally through blood
transfusions and EPO.

A sign of alarm is sudden increases in form, that's generally a 'watch
this rider very closely' warning.

 

[rooman]

I know these guys are obviously very fit.... but what Vino did yesterday is that the sort of performance they get out of doing this stuff ?? It makes that much of a difference between just being able to hold a good pace and getting up the mountain and actually being up to almost sprint up the mountain ??

I remember a while ago the guy who deliberately went out and did it to see what a difference it makes and he basically felt like he could just keep riding all day every day.

I guess the better you are through natural training and genetical makeup, the more benefit you get from the drugs ??

from Jonathan Vaughters (team Sipstream) said last night

""Anne Gripper, the new head of antidoping efforts at the UCI is smart and a tough Aussie lady. She will get the job done, no matter how much pain it causes, my advice is to not mess with her. Nature culls sick herds of animals. Cycling is just going through a natural culling, sad to say, but true. The riders and teams that have chosen to be clean will survive this."

I agree with him... those of you who know some of the old Tour Riders and pros will know their revelations, how they had to "conform" or not get a ride, how they had to do the math and see they would never be competitive when the elite guys they had to face were getting the "best" stuff. Often just enough to add an edge, that is all it took...but now, the science is better, the gap between the chased and the chasers has narrowed and in some cases gone.

I am concerned for the squads (Pro Tour, National and State) with some of the old riders as Coaches, in spite of their signing pledges and following WADA and UCI protocols on the surface, they still know the "tricks" that manipulate the testing proceedures, the way to avoid out of competition tests when it matters and the timing needed to get the traces cleaned out where even suspicion is removed and the results are from "training harder longer and "smarter" according to the blurbs they put out.

I suspect, at this years UCI Track World Masters Championships in Sydney their will be positive tests, as some of those old "salts" will also be riding or involved with medal hunters.

I have confidence in the younger coaches, but it doesnt extend to the guys who have been around for 25-30 years and have "seen it all".

But as Bleve wisely states.. "Wait & see .. I guess "

 

[[email protected]]

On Jul 25, 7:29 am, MikeyOz <MikeyOz.2u8...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> http://www.theage.com.au/news/tourdefrance/team-quits-in-tour-doping-...
>
> very disappointing.... I guess have to wait for the b-sample.
>
> Does anybody have a good reference, website or other as to how the
> testing is done ?
>
> --
> MikeyOz

So disappointing :-(

Blood doping/testing article: http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/12924.0.html

 

[cfsmtb]

Utterly crapola news, if it wasn't for Catherine Devenys' Opinion piece in The Age, this day would be completely shithouse.

 

[ProfTournesol]

On Jul 25, 9:27 am, MikeyOz <MikeyOz.2u9...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Donga Wrote:
>
>
>
> > Crikey - someone has updated it already to include Vino as the
> > "notable case"!
>
A sign of alarm is sudden increases in form, that's generally a 'watch
this rider very closely' warning.

David Millar said that the form of 2 riders in the time trial surprised him, Vino was one of them. He didn't name the other one.

 

[TimC]

On 2007-07-25, ProfTournesol (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> Bleve Wrote:
>> On Jul 25, 9:27 am, MikeyOz <MikeyOz.2u9...@no-
>> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>> > Donga Wrote:
>> >
>> > > Crikey - someone has updated it already to include Vino as the
>> > > "notable case"!
>> >
>> A sign of alarm is sudden increases in form, that's generally a 'watch
>> this rider very closely' warning.
>
> David Millar said that the form of 2 riders in the time trial surprised
> him, Vino was one of them. He didn't name the other one.

I would have assumed that would be reasonably obvious. I just wonder
what drugs stop you falling off 7 times

Scratch that. He's innocent. All he ever had to do was stop falling
off 7 times, and that's already 3 minutes 30 saved.

--
TimC
If I sit here and stare at nothing long enough, people might think
I'm an engineer working on something.
-- S.R. McElroy

 

[Shane Stanley]

In article <[email protected]>,
cfsmtb <[email protected]> wrote:

> Utterly crapola news, if it wasn't for Catherine Devenys' Opinion piece
> in The Age, this day would be completely shithouse.

Look on the bright side: Cadel could be a stage winner...

--
Shane Stanley

 

[cfsmtb]

Look on the bright side: Cadel could be a stage winner...

I'll bear that in mind.

 

[phillip brown]

On Jul 25, 1:44 pm, TimC <[email protected]
astro.swin.edu.au> wrote:
> On 2007-07-25, ProfTournesol (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
>
>
> > Bleve Wrote:
> >> On Jul 25, 9:27 am, MikeyOz <MikeyOz.2u9...@no-
> >> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> >> > Donga Wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Crikey - someone has updated it already to include Vino as the
> >> > > "notable case"!
>
> >> A sign of alarm is sudden increases in form, that's generally a 'watch
> >> this rider very closely' warning.
>
> > David Millar said that the form of 2 riders in the time trial surprised
> > him, Vino was one of them. He didn't name the other one.
>
> I would have assumed that would be reasonably obvious. I just wonder
> what drugs stop you falling off 7 times
>
> Scratch that. He's innocent. All he ever had to do was stop falling
> off 7 times, and that's already 3 minutes 30 saved.
>
> --
> TimC
> If I sit here and stare at nothing long enough, people might think
> I'm an engineer working on something.
> -- S.R. McElroy

So how come he lost a combined 10 minutes to Cadel Evans in the 2 ITT
last year?

Maybe he has been doing some TT training in Mexico as well taking in
the altitude.

phillip brown.

 

[rooman]

hmmm....

Vino must have known he was threatening the 10 year contract Astana just secured from its government et al...is he that stubborn or plain thick? is it Da or Doh?

Millar was shattered , but surprisingly nothing has been said about his "past" during the commentary by Liggett or Sherwin (AFAIK)..havnt heard a whisper during thei Tour of his disqual. from the World TT.
Confess and all is forgiven in a year or two. ... a lesson for Jan and Chicken perhaps.

Does it follow that Cadel will be awarded the stage of the Albi TT?
Will Cadel get the winner's 20sec time bonus ( does that apply??).

Questions Questions Questions.

Tonight I will be watching Rassmussen and asking him across the ether "confess" they have knowledge of your use of "Hemopure" now, you had better leave the Tour son, as well.

Phil Gomes said today he feels like "someone has killed Santa"

 

[Bleve]

On Jul 25, 2:14 pm, rooman <rooman.2u9...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> hmmm....
>
> Vino must have known he was threatening the 10 year contract Astana
> just secured from its government et al...is he that stubborn or plain
> thick? is it Da or Doh?
>
> Millar was 'shattered'
> (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2007/columns/story?id=2947568) , but
> surprisingly nothing has been said about his "past" during the
> commentary by Liggett or Sherwin (AFAIK)..havnt heard a whisper during
> thei Tour of his disqual. from the World TT.
> Confess and all is forgiven in a year or two. ... a lesson for Jan and
> Chicken perhaps.
>
> Does it follow that Cadel will be awarded the stage of the Albi TT?
> Will Cadel get the winner's 20sec time bonus ( does that apply??).

ITT, no bonus.


>
> Questions Questions Questions.
>
> Tonight I will be watching Rassmussen and asking him across the ether
> -"confess" they have knowledge of your use of -'-\"Hemopure-'
> (http://www.spinopsys.com/archives/1129)-" now, you had better leave
> the Tour son, as well.-
>
> Phil Gomes said today he feels like "*-someone has killed Santa-*"

Phil needs to get a life. It's only a bike race.

 

[Kingsley]

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:37:24 -0700, Donga wrote:

>> Try this for starters:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping

That's really interesting. It says you can blood dope with previously
frozen blood, rather than as a transfusion from someone else (which leaves
the identifiable 2nd persons cells in your body).

It you were going to goto all that trouble, surely you would have frozen
your own blood weeks/months prior to make it less-detectable... *shrug*

cheers,
-kt

--
Kingsley Turner,
http://MadDogsBreakfast.com/ABFAQ - news:aus.bicycle Frequenly Asked Questions