Vision Thoroughbreds, RANS Fusions --a suggestion

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Carol Cohen, Jun 10, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Carol Cohen

    Carol Cohen Guest

    Seems that this new shape of bike is being produced in minuscule quantities and is not available
    anywhere I've called.

    I'd like to get a Vision Thoroughbred but their website says they're sold out for 2003.

    I emailed RANS several weeks ago about the Fusion and have yet to get an answer.

    So I suggest that some enterprising home-builder just study the pix of these bikes and weld up a
    clone. Anybody doing this yet?

    C.C.,Rider
     
    Tags:


  2. Cjw

    Cjw Guest

    These guys sell a Fusion-like bike: http://www.quetzal.ca/azteca-en.html

    Several for sale (new) on Ebay, plus this thing that looks just like it:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3612126854&category=42314

    "Carol Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BB0BAC28.4D250%[email protected]...
    > Seems that this new shape of bike is being produced in minuscule
    quantities
    > and is not available anywhere I've called.
    >
    > I'd like to get a Vision Thoroughbred but their website says they're sold out for 2003.
    >
    > I emailed RANS several weeks ago about the Fusion and have yet to get an answer.
    >
    > So I suggest that some enterprising home-builder just study the pix of
    these
    > bikes and weld up a clone. Anybody doing this yet?
    >
    > C.C.,Rider
     
  3. This thing that looks just like a Quetzal Azteca (IS) a Quetzal Azteca...in Canada = Quetzal, in the
    USA = CCM EVOX (same bike/same company). KHS also makes a Semi-Bent and any dealer selling KHS
    should be able to order the KHS Semi-bent.
    -----------------------
    "cjw" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > These guys sell a Fusion-like bike: http://www.quetzal.ca/azteca-en.html
    >
    > Several for sale (new) on Ebay, plus this thing that looks just like it:
    >
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3612126854&category=42314
    >
    >
    >
    > "Carol Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:BB0BAC28.4D250%[email protected]...
    > > Seems that this new shape of bike is being produced in minuscule
    > quantities
    > > and is not available anywhere I've called.
    > >
    > > I'd like to get a Vision Thoroughbred but their website says they're
    sold
    > > out for 2003.
    > >
    > > I emailed RANS several weeks ago about the Fusion and have yet to get an answer.
    > >
    > > So I suggest that some enterprising home-builder just study the pix of
    > these
    > > bikes and weld up a clone. Anybody doing this yet?
    > >
    > > C.C.,Rider
    > >
    >
     
  4. Carol Cohen

    Carol Cohen Guest

    thanks, Mr. Coyote -- I looked the Azteca over at the website and it's too recumbent -- I want to be
    able to stand on the pedals on hills. I think the Vision might be the right angle for that.

    Meanwhile, I've ordered a gigantic saddle, called the Hippo, oops the Limo, my bad; for our
    Cannondale Silk Road which has a low angled crossbar so if I keep the seatpost way down, I might be
    able to touch the ground with my feet while sitting. This Limo seat has been characterized as like
    "sitting on a dead armadillo" which makes it all the more appealing. More later.

    C.C.

    > From: "Wile E. Coyote" <[email protected]> Organization: Bell Sympatico Newsgroups:
    > alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:12:27
    > -0400 Subject: Re: Vision Thoroughbreds, RANS Fusions --a suggestion
    >
    > This thing that looks just like a Quetzal Azteca (IS) a Quetzal Azteca...in Canada = Quetzal, in
    > the USA = CCM EVOX (same bike/same company). KHS also makes a Semi-Bent and any dealer selling KHS
    > should be able to order the KHS Semi-bent.
    > -----------------------
    > "cjw" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> These guys sell a Fusion-like bike: http://www.quetzal.ca/azteca-en.html
    >>
    >> Several for sale (new) on Ebay, plus this thing that looks just like it:
    >>
    > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3612126854&category=42314
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> "Carol Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:BB0BAC28.4D250%[email protected]...
    >>> Seems that this new shape of bike is being produced in minuscule
    >> quantities
    >>> and is not available anywhere I've called.
    >>>
    >>> I'd like to get a Vision Thoroughbred but their website says they're
    > sold
    >>> out for 2003.
    >>>
    >>> I emailed RANS several weeks ago about the Fusion and have yet to get an answer.
    >>>
    >>> So I suggest that some enterprising home-builder just study the pix of
    >> these
    >>> bikes and weld up a clone. Anybody doing this yet?
    >>>
    >>> C.C.,Rider
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
     
  5. Carol Cohen

    Carol Cohen Guest

    thanks, Mr. Coyote -- I looked the Azteca over at the website and it's too recumbent -- I want to be
    able to stand on the pedals on hills. I think the Vision might be the right angle for that.

    Meanwhile, I've ordered a gigantic saddle, called the Hippo, oops the Limo, my bad; for our
    Cannondale Silk Road which has a low angled crossbar so if I keep the seatpost way down, I might be
    able to touch the ground with my feet while sitting. This Limo seat has been characterized as like
    "sitting on a dead armadillo" which makes it all the more appealing. More later.

    C.C.

    > From: "Wile E. Coyote" <[email protected]> Organization: Bell Sympatico Newsgroups:
    > alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:12:27
    > -0400 Subject: Re: Vision Thoroughbreds, RANS Fusions --a suggestion
    >
    > This thing that looks just like a Quetzal Azteca (IS) a Quetzal Azteca...in Canada = Quetzal, in
    > the USA = CCM EVOX (same bike/same company). KHS also makes a Semi-Bent and any dealer selling KHS
    > should be able to order the KHS Semi-bent.
    > -----------------------
    > "cjw" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> These guys sell a Fusion-like bike: http://www.quetzal.ca/azteca-en.html
    >>
    >> Several for sale (new) on Ebay, plus this thing that looks just like it:
    >>
    > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3612126854&category=42314
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> "Carol Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:BB0BAC28.4D250%[email protected]...
    >>> Seems that this new shape of bike is being produced in minuscule
    >> quantities
    >>> and is not available anywhere I've called.
    >>>
    >>> I'd like to get a Vision Thoroughbred but their website says they're
    > sold
    >>> out for 2003.
    >>>
    >>> I emailed RANS several weeks ago about the Fusion and have yet to get an answer.
    >>>
    >>> So I suggest that some enterprising home-builder just study the pix of
    >> these
    >>> bikes and weld up a clone. Anybody doing this yet?
    >>>
    >>> C.C.,Rider
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
     
  6. Bluto

    Bluto Guest

    Carol Cohen <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I looked the Azteca over at the website and it's too recumbent -- I want to be able to stand on
    > the pedals on hills. I think the Vision might be the right angle for that.

    I wouldn't count on it until you've tried it out. I'd be surprised if standing up on that thing were
    feasible in practice.

    I have a couple of choppers with roughly 55-60 degree seat angles, and standing on their pedals is
    easier said than done. When I do so, the handlebars get pretty crowded up on my legs too.

    The effective seat angle on the Vision Thoroughbred appears to be somewhat slacker yet, and the
    handlebar position more close-coupled. Standing looks impractical, and pedaling while standing seems
    even more far-fetched.

    Here's another bike along those lines, but with rear suspension:
    http://www.r-m.de/english/1_katalog/equinox/index2.html

    It poses the same issues with regard to standing on the pedals, though. At least the rear suspension
    might not leave you *wishing* you could stand up more easily over bumps.

    Is the point of this whole exercise just for you to be able to flat-foot at a standstill? I question
    the value of what you might gain compared to what you may be giving up.

    Chalo Colina
     
  7. Jim H

    Jim H Guest

    "Carol Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BB0BD5A9.4D27D%[email protected]...
    > I want to be able to stand on the pedals on hills. I think the Vision might be the right angle
    > for that.

    Actually you can't stand up. If you try, you feel like a giant hand is holding you down. It's funny
    the first time you experience it.

    But there's usually no need. With the pedals somewhat in front of you, and the handlebars mounted
    solidly in that giant head tube, you can pull back on the bars somewhat to apply more force to the
    pedals. It's cool when you try
    it.
     
  8. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

  9. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    "jim h" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Carol Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BB0BD5A9.4D27D%[email protected]...
    >> I want to be able to stand on the pedals on hills. I think the Vision might be the right angle
    >> for that.
    >
    >Actually you can't stand up. If you try, you feel like a giant hand is holding you down. It's funny
    >the first time you experience it.

    That's just God showing you he doesn't want you riding such a silly bike... ;-)

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  10. Carol Cohen

    Carol Cohen Guest

    Thanks, John. Ontario is a bit far for me to travel, to try one out. Doesn't ANYONE in New England
    have one? I know I wrote "I'd like to get" one but actually I'd like to try riding one, first.

    C.C.

    > Carol Cohen
    >> Seems that this new shape of bike is being produced in minuscule quantities and is not available
    >> anywhere I've called.
    >>
    >> I'd like to get a Vision Thoroughbred but their website says they're sold out for 2003.
    >
    > Bicycle Spokesman has one:
    >
    > http://www.bikeroute.com/BicycleSpokesman/index.html
    >
    > JR
     
  11. Carol Cohen

    Carol Cohen Guest

    > Carol Cohen <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> I looked the Azteca over at the website and it's too recumbent -- I want to be able to stand on
    >> the pedals on hills. I think the Vision might be the right angle for that.
    >
    > I wouldn't count on it until you've tried it out. I'd be surprised if standing up on that thing
    > were feasible in practice.

    Yes, I'd like to try some of these semi's out, but nobody in New England seems to have them.
    >
    > I have a couple of choppers with roughly 55-60 degree seat angles, and standing on their pedals is
    > easier said than done. When I do so, the handlebars get pretty crowded up on my legs too.
    >
    > The effective seat angle on the Vision Thoroughbred appears to be somewhat slacker yet, and the
    > handlebar position more close-coupled. Standing looks impractical, and pedaling while standing
    > seems even more far-fetched.
    >
    > Here's another bike along those lines, but with rear suspension:
    > http://www.r-m.de/english/1_katalog/equinox/index2.html

    OK, I checked out the website -- it looks like it's too raked-back at the handlebar post (what is
    that part called?) for standing on pedals.
    >
    > It poses the same issues with regard to standing on the pedals, though. At least the rear
    > suspension might not leave you *wishing* you could stand up more easily over bumps.
    >
    > Is the point of this whole exercise just for you to be able to flat-foot at a standstill? I
    > question the value of what you might gain compared to what you may be giving up.
    >
    > Chalo Colina

    No, no -- I'm not a balance-at-the-red-lights hotshot. I just want to stand on the pedals on
    uphills, part of the time. Then sit back down on a comfortable wide seat.

    C.C.
     
  12. On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Mark Hickey wrote:

    > "jim h" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Actually you can't stand up. If you try, you feel like a giant hand is holding you down. It's
    > >funny the first time you experience it.
    >
    > That's just God showing you he doesn't want you riding such a silly bike... ;-)
    >

    OK, I know it was a light-hearted jibe, but to speak in defense of the T'bred, I took one out for a
    test spin several months ago and thought it was one of the coolest bikes I've sat butt upon in a
    while. It's a smart design, combining some of the best features of conventional diamond-framed and
    recumbent bikes into a simple, non-intimidating package that, were it more widely available, bring a
    lot of otherwise bike-shy adults back into the fold. (It also has some of the worst features of both
    designs, but I don't think they'd be apparent unless you were riding centuries on it.) I don't know
    that I'd ever have much use for it personally, but I think for casual city cruising and MUP
    tootling, it's a great bike.

    Trent
     
  13. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    trent gregory hill <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Mark Hickey wrote:
    >
    >> "jim h" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >Actually you can't stand up. If you try, you feel like a giant hand is holding you down. It's
    >> >funny the first time you experience it.
    >>
    >> That's just God showing you he doesn't want you riding such a silly bike... ;-)
    >
    >OK, I know it was a light-hearted jibe, but to speak in defense of the T'bred, I took one out for a
    >test spin several months ago and thought it was one of the coolest bikes I've sat butt upon in a
    >while. It's a smart design, combining some of the best features of conventional diamond-framed and
    >recumbent bikes into a simple, non-intimidating package that, were it more widely available, bring
    >a lot of otherwise bike-shy adults back into the fold. (It also has some of the worst features of
    >both designs, but I don't think they'd be apparent unless you were riding centuries on it.) I don't
    >know that I'd ever have much use for it personally, but I think for casual city cruising and MUP
    >tootling, it's a great bike.

    I agree entirely - ANY bike that's being ridden is a great bike, be it a cruiser, BMX, hybrid and
    maybe even 'bent. ;-)

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  14. Jim H

    Jim H Guest

    > I don't know that I'd ever have much use for it personally, but I think for casual city cruising
    > and MUP tootling, it's a great bike.

    It is indeed the ideal city bike. I bought it for my wife who's an inexperienced rider, but after I
    tried it out I secretly wanted one myself. It's just totally relaxing - there's never a dicey, tippy
    moment. Whatever happens, just squeeze the brakes and put your feet on the ground. And pulling back
    on the handlebars to push against the pedals feels great. It looks a bit odd, but not odd enough
    that you attract any attention.

    Right now, it's a bit pricey. I hope they ramp up production and get the price down.
     
  15. Jay Beattie

    Jay Beattie Guest

    "jim h" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > I don't know that I'd ever have much use for it personally, but I
    think
    > > for casual city cruising and MUP tootling, it's a great bike.
    >
    > It is indeed the ideal city bike. I bought it for my wife who's an inexperienced rider, but after
    > I tried it out I secretly wanted one
    myself.
    > It's just totally relaxing - there's never a dicey, tippy moment.
    Whatever
    > happens, just squeeze the brakes and put your feet on the ground. And pulling back on the
    > handlebars to push against the pedals feels great.
    It
    > looks a bit odd, but not odd enough that you attract any attention.
    >
    > Right now, it's a bit pricey. I hope they ramp up production and get
    the
    > price down.

    What makes it better than any other upright bicycle? I look at it and think that it is the worst of
    both worlds: a narrow saddle (not a problem for me, but a problem for others), and a far-forward BB
    which puts out of the saddle climbing out of the question. It does not seem to solve any real
    problems. -- Jay Beattie.
     
  16. Jim H

    Jim H Guest

    By moving the pedals forward, the seat gets lower. With this bike you can put your feet flat on the
    ground while sitting in the saddle. The handlebars are very high so you're sitting quite upright
    with little weight on your hands. You can't stand up and rock on the pedals, but you CAN get some
    more pedalling force by pulling back on the handlebars.

    It's not intended to be faster or more effiicient than anything else. The "problem" it solves is the
    insecurity and discomfort many people feel when they're up on a high saddle, unable to touch the
    ground, and leaning forward on the handlebars. New or inexperienced riders have problems getting on
    and starting, and dismounting as they stop - especially if it's a panic stop. They have trouble
    taking one hand off the handlebars to take a drink or unzip a jacket. On a bike like this, when you
    hit a red light you just squeeze the brake levers and put your feet down. I can't convey how
    relaxing this bike seems (to me, anyway) - you'd have to try it. I've been riding DFs and bents for
    decades and I got a charge out of the Vision.
     
  17. On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:31:56 +0000, trent gregory hill wrote:

    > OK, I know it was a light-hearted jibe, but to speak in defense of the T'bred, I took one out for
    > a test spin several months ago and thought it was one of the coolest bikes I've sat butt upon in a
    > while. It's a smart design, combining some of the best features of conventional diamond-framed and
    > recumbent bikes into a simple, non-intimidating package that, were it more widely available, bring
    > a lot of otherwise bike-shy adults back into the fold. (It also has some of the worst features of
    > both designs, but I don't think they'd be apparent unless you were riding centuries on it.)

    That is actually the biggest problem I see. The vertical body position puts all the upper body
    weight on your butt, which would really ache after a ride longer than a few miles. That is not, IMO,
    a practical design.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you _`\(,_ | killed all of us?
    From every corner of Europe, hundreds, (_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places.
    Even Nazis can't kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).
     
  18. Skip

    Skip Guest

    "Carol Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BB0BD5D2.4D27E%[email protected]...
    > thanks, Mr. Coyote -- I looked the Azteca over at the website and it's too recumbent -- I want to
    > be able to stand on the pedals on hills. I think
    the
    > Vision might be the right angle for that.
    >
    > Meanwhile, I've ordered a gigantic saddle, called the Hippo, oops the
    Limo,
    > my bad; for our Cannondale Silk Road which has a low angled crossbar so if
    I
    > keep the seatpost way down, I might be able to touch the ground with my
    feet
    > while sitting. This Limo seat has been characterized as like "sitting on
    a
    > dead armadillo" which makes it all the more appealing. More later.
    >
    > C.C.

    Sitting on a live armadillo would provide a more lively ride I suspect. Aside from that, from the
    way you describe the plan for the Silk Road I predict you will end up with a bad fit and not be
    happy there.

    What kind of use are you wanting to make of the stand on the pedals when riding / both feet on the
    ground when sitting bike? Keep in mind that these two benefits may be mutually exclusive.

    skip
     
  19. Skip

    Skip Guest

    "jim h" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > By moving the pedals forward, the seat gets lower. With this bike you can put your feet flat on
    > the ground while sitting in the saddle. The
    handlebars
    > are very high so you're sitting quite upright with little weight on your hands. You can't stand up
    > and rock on the pedals, but you CAN get some
    more
    > pedalling force by pulling back on the handlebars.
    >
    > It's not intended to be faster or more effiicient than anything else. The "problem" it solves is
    > the insecurity and discomfort many people feel when they're up on a high saddle, unable to touch
    > the ground, and leaning
    forward
    > on the handlebars. New or inexperienced riders have problems getting on
    and
    > starting, and dismounting as they stop - especially if it's a panic stop. They have trouble taking
    > one hand off the handlebars to take a drink or unzip a jacket. On a bike like this, when you hit a
    > red light you just squeeze the brake levers and put your feet down. I can't convey how relaxing
    > this bike seems (to me, anyway) - you'd have to try it. I've been riding DFs and bents for decades
    > and I got a charge out of the Vision.
    >
    I understand the benefit of being able to stop and put both feet on be ground for a beginning
    cyclist, but there are tradeoffs such as not being able to stand on the pedals. What I'd like is for
    you to take the bike out on a 20 mile ride that has a few hills and give us a ride report. From just
    looking at the bike I see it as a beginner / short hop / city / fun bike and it might be very good
    and very marketable as such, but I also see the fun ending somewhere around the 10 mile marker.

    skip
     
  20. In article <[email protected]>, "David says...
    >
    >On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:31:56 +0000, trent gregory hill wrote:
    >
    >> OK, I know it was a light-hearted jibe, but to speak in defense of the T'bred, I took one out for
    >> a test spin several months ago and thought it was one of the coolest bikes I've sat butt upon in
    >> a while. It's a smart design, combining some of the best features of conventional diamond-framed
    >> and recumbent bikes into a simple, non-intimidating package that, were it more widely available,
    >> bring a lot of otherwise bike-shy adults back into the fold. (It also has some of the worst
    >> features of both designs, but I don't think they'd be apparent unless you were riding centuries
    >> on it.)
    >
    >That is actually the biggest problem I see. The vertical body position puts all the upper body
    >weight on your butt, which would really ache after a ride longer than a few miles. That is not,
    >IMO, a practical design.

    It might not be practical for the enthusiasts that post on this newsgroup, but I submit that WE are
    not the target audience. I see lots of folks around town who probably never ride their bikes further
    than 5 miles, and most of them already seem to be riding in a completely upright position on old
    cruising bikes. And what is most important, they seem to insist on having the saddle low enough to
    put their feet down at stops without getting off the seat. The result is a terrible cycling
    position, that quickly tires you out.

    For these riders the T’bread would be a fantastic improvement, and very user friendly.

    Steve Christensen Midland, MI
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...