Vision Thoroughbreds, RANS Fusions --a suggestion

[Carol Cohen]

> From: "skip" <[email protected]>

> "Carol Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:BB0BD5D2.4D27E%[email protected]...
>> I looked the Azteca over at the website and it's too recumbent -- I want to be able to stand on
>> the pedals on hills. I think the Vision might be the right angle for that. This Limo seat has
>> been characterized as like "sitting on a dead armadillo" which makes it all the more appealing.
>> More later.
>>
>> C.C.

> Sitting on a live armadillo would provide a more lively ride I suspect. Aside from that, from the
> way you describe the plan for the Silk Road I predict you will end up with a bad fit and not be
> happy there.
>
> What kind of use are you wanting to make of the stand on the pedals when riding / both feet on the
> ground when sitting bike? Keep in mind that these two benefits may be mutually exclusive.
>
> skip
>
Yes, I know the Cannondale retrofit won't be perfect but it is a cheaper way to try the wide
seat/stand on pedals thing, than buying a whole nother bike.

My idea is: stand on the pedals and pull up hard on the handlebars, to achieve the Joe K. deadlift
power on the pedal downstroke, but in a vertical position (Kochanowski does it in fully enclosed
home-built bents); then sit easily back down on a blunt-nosed wide saddle that is almost as comfy
as my Toureasy seat. Almost, but nothing could be as comfortable. Next will be designing a back
for the Hippo saddle. After that, the Cannondale straight (hybrid) handlebars and low stem should
be replaced with a longer stem and moustache handlebars. Am I re-inventing the 1950"s bike? The
feet on the ground part is so I can ride, stop, ride more without (except for the uphills) having
to sit, stand, sit. I get comfortable and won't have to move or adjust my position on the saddle.
Just an idea.

C.C.

 

[Skip]

"Carol Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BB0E0C51.4D369%[email protected]...
> > From: "skip" <[email protected]>
>
> > "Carol Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:BB0BD5D2.4D27E%[email protected]...
> >> I looked the Azteca over at the website and it's too recumbent -- I want to be able to stand
> >> on the pedals on hills. I
think
> >> the Vision might be the right angle for that. This Limo seat has been characterized as like
> >> "sitting on a dead armadillo" which makes it all the more appealing. More later.
> >>
> >> C.C.
>
> > Sitting on a live armadillo would provide a more lively ride I suspect. Aside from that, from
> > the way you describe the plan for the Silk Road I predict you will end up with a bad fit and not
> > be happy there.
> >
> > What kind of use are you wanting to make of the stand on the pedals
when
> > riding / both feet on the ground when sitting bike? Keep in mind that
these
> > two benefits may be mutually exclusive.
> >
> > skip
> >
> Yes, I know the Cannondale retrofit won't be perfect but it is a cheaper
way
> to try the wide seat/stand on pedals thing, than buying a whole nother
bike.
>
> My idea is: stand on the pedals and pull up hard on the handlebars, to achieve the Joe K. deadlift
> power on the pedal downstroke, but in a
vertical
> position (Kochanowski does it in fully enclosed home-built bents); then
sit
> easily back down on a blunt-nosed wide saddle that is almost as comfy as
my
> Toureasy seat. Almost, but nothing could be as comfortable. Next will be designing a back for the
> Hippo saddle. After that, the Cannondale
straight
> (hybrid) handlebars and low stem should be replaced with a longer stem and moustache handlebars.
> Am I re-inventing the 1950"s bike? The feet on the ground part is so I can ride, stop, ride more
> without (except for the uphills) having to sit, stand, sit. I get comfortable and won't have to
> move or adjust my position on the saddle. Just an idea.
>
> C.C.
>

I think the only advice I can offer you at this point is to raise the saddle on the Silk Road at the
first sign of knee pain.

skip

 

[Jim H]

> What I'd like is for you to take the bike out on a 20 mile ride that has a few hills and give us a
> ride report. From
just
> looking at the bike I see it as a beginner / short hop / city / fun bike
and
> it might be very good and very marketable as such, but I also see the fun ending somewhere around
> the 10 mile marker.

I bought it for my wife; it's the 'compact' frame size and is way too small for me. I can just
barely get the seat high enough to ride it; it's still at least 2 inches too low. So for me, yes the
fun would end pretty quick. My LBS rents them so maybe I can try a larger one.

 

[Edward Wong]

"Jay Beattie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "jim h" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > I don't know that I'd ever have much use for it personally, but I
> think
> > > for casual city cruising and MUP tootling, it's a great bike.
> >
> > It is indeed the ideal city bike. I bought it for my wife who's an inexperienced rider, but
> > after I tried it out I secretly wanted one
> myself.
> > It's just totally relaxing - there's never a dicey, tippy moment.
> Whatever
> > happens, just squeeze the brakes and put your feet on the ground. And pulling back on the
> > handlebars to push against the pedals feels great.
> It
> > looks a bit odd, but not odd enough that you attract any attention.
> >
> > Right now, it's a bit pricey. I hope they ramp up production and get
> the
> > price down.
>
> What makes it better than any other upright bicycle? I look at it and think that it is the worst
> of both worlds: a narrow saddle (not a problem for me, but a problem for others), and a
> far-forward BB which puts out of the saddle climbing out of the question. It does not seem to
> solve any real problems. -- Jay Beattie.

So far those that have one, aren't complaining.

Edward Wong Orlando, FL

 

[Edward Wong]

> I agree entirely - ANY bike that's being ridden is a great bike, be it a cruiser, BMX, hybrid and
> maybe even 'bent. ;-)
>
> Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

Hey Mark,

How about a $695 bent ti frame? It could be a monotube SWB or lowracer which would be simpler to
make than a triangulated BMX or MTB frame. I think you'd sell a lot of them!

Regards, Edward Wong Orlando, FL

 

[Mark Hickey]

[email protected] (Edward Wong) wrote:

>> I agree entirely - ANY bike that's being ridden is a great bike, be it a cruiser, BMX, hybrid and
>> maybe even 'bent. ;-)
>
>Hey Mark,
>
>How about a $695 bent ti frame? It could be a monotube SWB or lowracer which would be simpler to
>make than a triangulated BMX or MTB frame. I think you'd sell a lot of them!

I've been approached many times to do something like this, but have opted not to for
several reasons.

1) To build a jig of comparable quality to the one used for my "normal frames" would be awfully
expensive, and would have to be "amortized" across the first few production runs of the frames.

2) Weight is simply less of an issue to the 'bent riders.

3) Most 'bent riders wouldn't get all fluttery over being able to ride a ti frame, since there would
be very little advantage for them (aluminum and/or steel work just fine).

4) The 'bent market is pretty small - I'd have to own a large chunk of the high end 'bent market to
even break even... and there's not enough hours in the day as it is.

Call me conservative (pun intended).

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

[Bandjhughes]

> Hey Mark,
>
> How about a $695 bent ti frame? It could be a monotube SWB or lowracer which would be simpler to
> make than a triangulated BMX or MTB frame. I think you'd sell a lot of them!
>
> Regards, Edward Wong Orlando, FL

Yeah, good idea. I would buy one.

Brian

 

[Joseph Kochanow]

Carol Cohen <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BB0BAC28.4D250%[email protected]>...
> Seems that this new shape of bike is being produced in minuscule quantities and is not available
> anywhere I've called.
>
> I'd like to get a Vision Thoroughbred but their website says they're sold out for 2003.
>
> I emailed RANS several weeks ago about the Fusion and have yet to get an answer.
>
> So I suggest that some enterprising home-builder just study the pix of these bikes and weld up a
> clone. Anybody doing this yet?
>
> C.C.,Rider

When I worked in bike shops there were always some older people who asked for a bike that they could
reach the ground with their feet while resting on the seat. One of the original mountain bikes
(possibly Joe Breeze) made that I own has a very long 47 inch wheelbase with no stem offset. The
handlebars are right in line with the steertube. I wish I had a full suspension mountain bike with
such a long wheelbase. When I try to carry something with one hand, like another bike that I usually
find in someomes trash, on a mountain bike with the seat lowered it is easier to get started. The
zero offset handlebar stem also helps when steering with one hand and standing. Try steering with
one hand and standing on your bike. I also feel safer with the seat lowered on a fast downhill due
to the lowered center of gravity. Although I never rode a Vision Thoroughbred, I thought it was
easily ridden while standing. Joel Smith would not have produced such a bike if there were not some
interest in such a design. I would just like to have one with full suspension. I have too many other
experimental recumbents to build before I try to build my version of a "comfort bike".

 

[Ken Kobayashi]

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:03:24 GMT, Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
>2) Weight is simply less of an issue to the 'bent riders.
>
>3) Most 'bent riders wouldn't get all fluttery over being able to ride a ti frame, since there
> would be very little advantage for them (aluminum and/or steel work just fine).

Where did you get that idea? There are many people here who paid $3800 or more for the Titanium
Bacchetta Aero, including myself. We could have saved $1300 by choosing the steel version which is a
couple of pounds heavier.

(Although I don't think it's just the weight that makes the Aero fast...)

 

[Mark Hickey]

Ken Kobayashi <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:03:24 GMT, Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>2) Weight is simply less of an issue to the 'bent riders.
>>
>>3) Most 'bent riders wouldn't get all fluttery over being able to ride a ti frame, since there
>> would be very little advantage for them (aluminum and/or steel work just fine).
>
>Where did you get that idea? There are many people here who paid $3800 or more for the Titanium
>Bacchetta Aero, including myself. We could have saved $1300 by choosing the steel version which is
>a couple of pounds heavier.

I *did* say "most". I know there are probably people riding 'bents with aluminum/ti bolt kits too,
but I doubt it's a significant number (in terms of making marketing such kits a worthwhile
endeavor).

>(Although I don't think it's just the weight that makes the Aero fast...)

Weight only makes bikes fast downhill... ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

[Mlb]

Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Ken Kobayashi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:03:24 GMT, Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>2) Weight is simply less of an issue to the 'bent riders.
>>>
>>>3) Most 'bent riders wouldn't get all fluttery over being able to
ride
>>>a ti frame, since there would be very little advantage for them (aluminum and/or steel work
>>>just fine).
>>
>>Where did you get that idea? There are many people here who paid $3800 or more for the Titanium
>>Bacchetta Aero, including myself. We could have saved $1300 by choosing the steel version which is
>>a couple of pounds heavier.
>
> I *did* say "most". I know there are probably people riding 'bents with aluminum/ti bolt kits too,
> but I doubt it's a significant number (in terms of making marketing such kits a worthwhile
> endeavor).
>
>>(Although I don't think it's just the weight that makes the Aero fast...)
>
> Weight only makes bikes fast downhill... ;-)
>
> Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
>

"Many" people with Ti Aeros? I'd be interested in the number

 

[Jude T. McGloin]

IMO most AVID recumbent riders are of the casual touring type...and I might add IMO its the same for
the DF community. I'd venture to say that the percentage of wanna be fast ridin' types as a
percentage of the whole AVID ridin' folks of both groups is about the same. Keep in mind that the
recumbent ridin' population is estimated at 1% or less of bike owners nationwide.

--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Ken Kobayashi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:03:24 GMT, Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
> >2) Weight is simply less of an issue to the 'bent riders.
> >
> >3) Most 'bent riders wouldn't get all fluttery over being able to ride a ti frame, since there
> > would be very little advantage for them (aluminum and/or steel work just fine).
>
> Where did you get that idea? There are many people here who paid $3800 or more for the Titanium
> Bacchetta Aero, including myself. We could have saved $1300 by choosing the steel version which is
> a couple of pounds heavier.
>
> (Although I don't think it's just the weight that makes the Aero fast...)