Vive la France!



"Alex" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
>I guess you are right; however, it's not a matter of people, I say, it's
> the "establishment" (media, organization, politicians) that believe they
> could make-and-destroy an "hero". the same way they made Pantani the
> unchallenged climber in the cycling history, and then the worst cheater
> in the world of sports. I really do not manage to understand the reason
> why, when speaking about cycling, newspapers and tv they seem to enjoy
> hitting so hard our unshakable love toward this sport (really popular
> but not fully "understood"). I really do not understand, unless they
> have st to get from doing that, taking the advantage from wider audience
> lack of knowledge (so many people watch only TdF, or Giro here in Italy,
> so many say that only "performance" sports are affected by cheating:
> definitely, they do not know so much about professional sport!)
>
> anyway, when did italian public seriously try to damage a rider, either
> foreign or not? Roche vs Visentini? I guess never, I hope never in any
> region of the world! It's very dangerous to speak about blowing, hitting
> riders, so let us wish well.
>

In this year's Giro there were a couple of guys who attacked the peloton as
it went by...
 
[email protected] wrote:

> Chauvinism excites a response in kind.

Bingo. Sometimes called "a chip on the shoulder".

Sacrifice is not slighted:

http://www.abmc.gov/no.htm

Not just France:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~hulsmann/bastogne_square.html

http://www.abmc.gov/ne.htm

Some approx. figures on casualties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_casualties_by_country

Above shows France losing (deaths) 210,000 military, 560,000 total dead
incl. civilians. Soviet Union: 8,000,000 military, 28,000,000 total
incl. Stalinist purges; USA lost 407,000 military, 413,000 total dead.
Netherlands, 7,900 military, 207,900 total dead, incl. Jewish
deportees.

Notes the Soviets "bleeding the German army white" while absorbing huge
numbers of casualties:

http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jobrien/reference/ob62.html

Figures are available on Soviet military production (tanks, airplanes,
rifles) for those who care to look.
--D-y
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Not a very balanced account. Chauvinism excites a response in kind.
> L'Epuipe chauvinistically chose to name a single athlete. It
> could have revealed the names of all the riders, released all the
> results of all the tests. L'Equipe in singling out a single rider
> lit the flame. Any account which ignores L'Equipe's role is not
> complete, not authoritative.
>
>
> ray

You're confusing chauvinism and journalism.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Guys,
> >
> > This was like watching Casablanca. And who are the nazi this time?
> >
> > Vive la France!!!
>
>
> Is this the beginning of a beautiful friendship?
>
> Benjo

If I remember the context of that line correctly, the friendship between
an American and a Frenchman isn't sealed until they kill a German
together.

I'd shoot a Nazi for Ingrid Bergman,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
 
I have read the last few days all kind of accusations to the French.
They
are the worst chauvinists of the world, they hate foreigners in general
and
Americans in particular, they can't stand not winning their own Tour,
are
looking for revenge, etc.. But if this is all true, why has none of
those
narrow-minded chauvinists, intent on revenge, tried to prevent
Armstrong
winning?
-----------------------------------------
Because they are good sports, as all good cycling fans are.
They never wanted to prevent Armstrong from winning,
but that still doesn't mean that they wouldn't like to see
his name smeared - I mean come on, Armstrong is
kinda annoying with his fist pumping, arrogance,
texas pride and his "no gifts" attitude. I'm an American
and I don't like him much, he reminds me of a bully and
I like to root for the underdog.
You must admit the timing is very interesting, why not before his last
tour?
Maybe the TDF organizers and doping organizations were
protecting Lance all these years, and now they can finally
expose him. Lance was money.
 
"benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have read the last few days all kind of accusations to the French. They
>are the worst chauvinists of the world, they hate foreigners in general and
>Americans in particular, they can't stand not winning their own Tour, are
>looking for revenge, etc.. But if this is all true, why has none of those
>narrow-minded chauvinists, intent on revenge, tried to prevent Armstrong
>winning? Why such a complicated conspiracy, if it would be so easy to make
>him fall, and so easy to conceal it was on purpose, especially in the last
>kilometers of the clims. But no Frenchman ever tried to to such a thing in
>the Tour, not only in the last seven years, but never. The only possible
>exception is the blow Merckx recieved in the climb to Puy-de-Dôme in 1975,
>but it has never become clear if it was on purpose or not. While the
>Italian public tried more than once to obstruct foreign riders sometimes in
>a very dangerous way, in France it never happened. In the mountains foreign
>riders are even pushed if they are in difficulty. What's more, the
>direction has always done everything to convince the best foreign riders to
>participate to the Tour, even at the expense of the French champions. Henri
>Desgrange paid a lot of money to Binda to bring him to France. In 1948
>Goddet and Lévitan even changed the rules, to make it possible for Coppi
>and Bartali to come to France, although they knew very well that they were
>much stronger than the best French riders. The direction twice decided to
>allow commercial teams to ride the Tour instead of national teams, because
>Van Looy in 1962 and Merckx in 1969 had made it clear that otherwise they
>would continue to boycot the Tour. And all those measures were not against
>the will of the French people. On the contrary. Coppi was even more popular
>in France than in Italy. Merckx was venerated by the French public. Greg
>Lemond was also very well-liked and the French even acclaimed him loudly
>when he had beaten a Frenchman on the very last day. It's true that
>Armstrong has never been very popular, but this had undoubtedly much to do
>with the way he presented himself. Anyway, last month the French public
>cheered him more than before. Detractors might say that is was because they
>were glad to get ride of him, but they cheered him all the same. The Tour
>de France is unique, the most beautiful sports event in the world, thanks
>to the riders in the first place, but also thanks to the French public.
>
> Benjo
>

Great post, thanks a lot. I couldn't agree more.
 
Montesquiou wrote:
> Benjo,
>
> I have no word for to express my gratitude.
> By the references you gave with names such as Henri Desgrange, el
> Campionissimo Fausto Coppi (God bless him), unforgetable Rik Van Looy, I
> understand that you know what you are talking about.

To bolster your understanding:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1874739374/
 
[email protected] wrote:
> I have read the last few days all kind of accusations to the French.
> They
> are the worst chauvinists of the world, they hate foreigners in general
> and
> Americans in particular, they can't stand not winning their own Tour,
> are
> looking for revenge, etc.. But if this is all true, why has none of
> those
> narrow-minded chauvinists, intent on revenge, tried to prevent
> Armstrong
> winning?
> -----------------------------------------
> Because they are good sports, as all good cycling fans are.
> They never wanted to prevent Armstrong from winning,
> but that still doesn't mean that they wouldn't like to see
> his name smeared - I mean come on, Armstrong is
> kinda annoying with his fist pumping, arrogance,
> texas pride and his "no gifts" attitude. I'm an American
> and I don't like him much, he reminds me of a bully and
> I like to root for the underdog.
> You must admit the timing is very interesting, why not before his last
> tour?
> Maybe the TDF organizers and doping organizations were
> protecting Lance all these years, and now they can finally
> expose him. Lance was money.
>
I don't think the business case of publishing such an article right
before LA's last tour compared to publishing it when he's retired is
negative for the newspaper. And it would have put LA during the tour in
a world of pain.
Occam's razor applied: They didn't publish it earlier because they couldn't.
 
"Ernst Noch" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> Montesquiou wrote:
>> Benjo,
>>
>> I have no word for to express my gratitude.
>> By the references you gave with names such as Henri Desgrange, el
>> Campionissimo Fausto Coppi (God bless him), unforgetable Rik Van Looy, I
>> understand that you know what you are talking about.
>
> To bolster your understanding:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1874739374/

Ok, now I understand better.
Just reading the text and the names he gave, I was thinking to myself : This
guy know a lot !
But I was not aware that Benjo was a writer.

With a 5 star review,

well done !
Merci
 
<[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Not a very balanced account. Chauvinism excites a response in kind.
>> L'Epuipe chauvinistically chose to name a single athlete. It
>> could have revealed the names of all the riders, released all the
>> results of all the tests. L'Equipe in singling out a single rider
>> lit the flame. Any account which ignores L'Equipe's role is not
>> complete, not authoritative.
>>
>>
>> ray
>
> You're confusing chauvinism and journalism.
>

Correct.

I remember I was razer upset with l'Equipe because I believed the New Papar
was pro-Anquetil, wile I was pro-Poulidor : )
 
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 01:40:08 GMT, Steven Bornfeld
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> That's like saying New York is a great place, if not for all the rude New
>> Yorkers.
>
>Shut up.
>
>Thank you,
>Steve
>proud New Yorker

Kinda rude, wasn't it?

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 01:31:01 GMT, Steven Bornfeld
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Thanks Benjo.
>> When I first made it to France, I was a bit ashamed of what I had
>> been led to expect of the French, considering what I had been led to
>> expect.
>
>D'Oh! I meant to say, "I was a bit ashamed of what I'd been led to
>expect of the French, considering how well I was in fact treated".
>
>Steve

We're just figuring it was the drugs kicking in at the end of a long,
marathon of posting. This has been rough - most of you peaked for the
Tour and then you had to go back at it before the World's. This whole
thing has been an attempt of L'Equippe to disrupt the quality on the
real source of information for bicycle racing - rbr. They figured they
could take down Jeff Jones at the same time just by taking up all his
time reading the posts.

Little do they know that Jeff uses an AI to sort through for
intelligent posts and he only reads three or four a day.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
"Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Guys,
>> >
>> > This was like watching Casablanca. And who are the nazi this time?
>> >
>> > Vive la France!!!
>>
>>
>> Is this the beginning of a beautiful friendship?
>>
>> Benjo
>
> If I remember the context of that line correctly, the friendship between
> an American and a Frenchman isn't sealed until they kill a German
> together.
>
> I'd shoot a Nazi for Ingrid Bergman,
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

The nazi officers were singing Die Wacht am Rhein imposing their voice at
Rick's bar, when Victor Lazlo asks the band to play La Marseillaise and
little by little all the humiliated customers join the choir and overrun the
nazis that had to sit down. That is the electrifying moment of the movie
evoked in me.

BTW: In the end it is Victor the one that keeps the girl.
 
Some pro-Lance posters maintain that, yes, he could have been 'cured'
of testicular cancer with chemo because this type of cancer is
'primitive' and very 'susceptible to chemotherapy.'

THE POINT IS, however, Lance the spinmeister sez his cancer had spread
to his lungs and brain(!) THESE types of metastatic malignancies ARE
NOT 'primitive' and are not easily cured by chemo.

THIS IS THE POINT most doubters make. And to date, no credible
individual 'cured case' has come forward to
offer his- or herself as a parallel to Armstrong's claims.
 
"Curtis L. Russell" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news: [email protected]...
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 01:31:01 GMT, Steven Bornfeld
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Thanks Benjo.
>>> When I first made it to France, I was a bit ashamed of what I had
>>> been led to expect of the French, considering what I had been led to
>>> expect.
>>
>>D'Oh! I meant to say, "I was a bit ashamed of what I'd been led to
>>expect of the French, considering how well I was in fact treated".
>>
>>Steve
>
> We're just figuring it was the drugs kicking in at the end of a long,
> marathon of posting. This has been rough - most of you peaked for the
> Tour and then you had to go back at it before the World's. This whole
> thing has been an attempt of L'Equippe to disrupt the quality on the
> real source of information for bicycle racing - rbr. They figured they
> could take down Jeff Jones at the same time just by taking up all his
> time reading the posts.
>
> Little do they know that Jeff uses an AI to sort through for
> intelligent posts and he only reads three or four a day.
>

Hmm, he'd better check the sensitivity of his AI. That seems excessive.
 
"trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "TM" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
> [email protected]...
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>> Any account which ignores L'Equipe's role is not
>>> complete, not authoritative.
>>>
>>
>> Shoot the messenger.
>
> Rather look at the messenger's bone fides before accepting the message.

Actually, it's rather a blessing, don't you think? By constantly bashing a
newspaper, one can conveniently ignore the facts it brought.

The French are lying because they say Armstrong doped. And because they lie,
they must be lying when they say he doped. Karl Barth couldn't have made it
better.
 
"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> "trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "TM" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
>> [email protected]...
>>>
>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>> Any account which ignores L'Equipe's role is not
>>>> complete, not authoritative.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Shoot the messenger.
>>
>> Rather look at the messenger's bone fides before accepting the message
>
> Actually, it's rather a blessing, don't you think? By constantly bashing a
> newspaper, one can conveniently ignore the facts it brought.
>
> The French are lying because they say Armstrong doped. And because they
> lie, they must be lying when they say he doped. Karl Barth couldn't have
> made it better.

No, you have created a false circularity.

"Considering the source" is accepted practice across the world and
throughout history in all situations. In fact I can't imagine it otherwise.
They have said that Armstrong was doping so many times in the past with
either no evidence (unless you count merely winning as evidence, as some
seem to), or "evidence" that never amounted to a thing, that it is not
unreasonable to think that they might not have been unbiased in their
accusations nor entirely scientifically or journalistically rigourous. I do
not maintain that because they were so often wrong in the past that they
must be wrong here as well. After all, the last time the boy cried wolf,
there happened to be a wolf. Only that we not assume them to be right
without fully understanding the entire sequence between Armstrong peeing
into a cup in 1999 and the newspaper article in 2005- including whether a
positve result in 2004 is valid as the the direct of the lab maintains, or
perhaps not, as the heads of Canada's and Germany's anti-doping labs have
suggested.
 
Curtis L. Russell wrote:
>
> We're just figuring it was the drugs kicking in at the end of a long,
> marathon of posting. This has been rough - most of you peaked for the
> Tour and then you had to go back at it before the World's. This whole
> thing has been an attempt of L'Equippe to disrupt the quality on the
> real source of information for bicycle racing - rbr. They figured they
> could take down Jeff Jones at the same time just by taking up all his
> time reading the posts.
>
L'Equipe certainly caught us all by surprise on this one, especially just
before the Vuelta. I was getting ready for my fifth peak of the season, when
bam! I had to read a newspaper before breakfast. But I'll bounce back from
this one. I will not be bowed.

> Little do they know that Jeff uses an AI to sort through for
> intelligent posts and he only reads three or four a day.
>
LOL! Artificial intelligence is a good way to describe my brain cell at the
moment.

What's that you say, there are three or four intelligent posts here a day?
Damn, I'm getting slow.

Jeff
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Vive la Tour de Lance!
Replies
77
Views
2K
Road Cycling
Raptor
R
Mr. Beanz
Did you see this coming (tour de france results/spoiler) do not open if haven't seen last stage
Replies
1
Views
1K
Road Cycling
Mr. Beanz
Mr. Beanz
B
Are you a fan of tour de france?
Replies
10
Views
3K
Road Cycling
IamDonna
I
San Remo GT
I wanna train for the tour de france...
Replies
22
Views
3K
Road Cycling
JSWin
JSWin
L
WHO KNOWS THE ETAPE DU TOUR IN FRANCE?
Replies
3
Views
912
Road Cycling
alienator
alienator
Top Bottom Back