Vive la France!



In article <[email protected]>,
Steven Bornfeld <[email protected]> wrote:

> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> >
> > That's like saying New York is a great place, if not for all the rude New
> > Yorkers.

>
> Shut up.
>
> Thank you,
> Steve
> proud New Yorker


About 1983 I was visiting New York City, not for the first
time. Left the West Side Terminal 0700, and within a block
three whores were entertaining themselves and each other
talking and laughing at me. I realized I was "dragging my
coat" and shifted my attitude. No more of that kind of
thing for the rest of the stay.

Further on my way through Times Square to Houston Street a
woman of about 55 who spent much time on the street and I
passed each other. She gave me a glorious "Welcome to New
York smile" and I smiled back.

To me both are equally positive events.
The wife and I stayed in Paris for a few weeks once. Very
good time indeed.

--
Michael Press
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"alex" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> "alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> > Guys,
> >> >
> >> > This was like watching Casablanca. And who are the nazi this time?
> >> >
> >> > Vive la France!!!
> >>
> >> Is this the beginning of a beautiful friendship?
> >>
> >> Benjo

> >
> > If I remember the context of that line correctly, the friendship between
> > an American and a Frenchman isn't sealed until they kill a German
> > together.
> >
> > I'd shoot a Nazi for Ingrid Bergman,


> The nazi officers were singing Die Wacht am Rhein imposing their voice at
> Rick's bar, when Victor Lazlo asks the band to play La Marseillaise and
> little by little all the humiliated customers join the choir and overrun the
> nazis that had to sit down. That is the electrifying moment of the movie
> evoked in me.


Bien sur. It's one of the most memorable scenes in cinema. It is also,
ironically, the low point for the relationship between the American and
the Frenchman, n'est ce pas?

> BTW: In the end it is Victor the one that keeps the girl.


English strikes again: Rick shot the Nazi in aid of Ilsa's escape. That
is, he shot the Nazi for [the benefit of] Ingrid Bergman, not [in
exchange] for Ingrid Bergman.

A joke that illustrates the issue:

Man 1: I just got a Lexus for my wife.
Man 2: That's a pretty good trade!

Just a humble corrupt newsreader,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
 
>> That's like saying New York is a great place, if not for all the rude New
>> Yorkers.

>
> Shut up.
>
> Thank you,
> Steve
> proud New Yorker


Funny thing... after leaving France at the end of the 'tour, my wife & I
visited London for three days. First time there, and we were warned, not
just by fellow tourists in France, but even by an American we came across in
London shortly after arrival, that the Brittish could be quite rude. We came
across not one instance of that. A couple times when we were, er, dislocated
(ok, sorta lost), our advances on the locals to ask for directions were
treated with great kindness.

In all seriousness, I've had zero desire in the past to visit New York. I
had regarded it as a place that looked too crowded, too busy, too rude. No
more. It will likely to just another fascinating place to observe people and
watch how things work.

Look for and embrace the differences that different cultures have to offer.
Observe. Listen more, talk less.

(What's this got to do with bike racing?)

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
"alex" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> "alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> > Guys,
> >> >
> >> > This was like watching Casablanca. And who are the nazi this time?
> >> >
> >> > Vive la France!!!
> >>
> >>
> >> Is this the beginning of a beautiful friendship?
> >>
> >> Benjo

> >
> > If I remember the context of that line correctly, the friendship between
> > an American and a Frenchman isn't sealed until they kill a German
> > together.
> >
> > I'd shoot a Nazi for Ingrid Bergman,
> >
> > --
> > Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
> > "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> > to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

>
> The nazi officers were singing Die Wacht am Rhein imposing their voice at
> Rick's bar, when Victor Lazlo asks the band to play La Marseillaise and
> little by little all the humiliated customers join the choir and overrun the
> nazis that had to sit down. That is the electrifying moment of the movie
> evoked in me.
>
> BTW: In the end it is Victor the one that keeps the girl.


Nevertheless Rick kills Strasser for Ilsa.

--
Michael Press
 
"Michael Press" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> "alex" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > In article <[email protected]>,
>> > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> news:[email protected]...
>> >> > Guys,
>> >> >
>> >> > This was like watching Casablanca. And who are the nazi this time?
>> >> >
>> >> > Vive la France!!!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Is this the beginning of a beautiful friendship?
>> >>
>> >> Benjo
>> >
>> > If I remember the context of that line correctly, the friendship
>> > between
>> > an American and a Frenchman isn't sealed until they kill a German
>> > together.
>> >
>> > I'd shoot a Nazi for Ingrid Bergman,
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
>> > "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
>> > to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

>>
>> The nazi officers were singing Die Wacht am Rhein imposing their voice at
>> Rick's bar, when Victor Lazlo asks the band to play La Marseillaise and
>> little by little all the humiliated customers join the choir and overrun
>> the
>> nazis that had to sit down. That is the electrifying moment of the movie
>> evoked in me.
>>
>> BTW: In the end it is Victor the one that keeps the girl.

>
> Nevertheless Rick kills Strasser for Ilsa.
>


I am shocked to discover that doping, er I mean gambling, is going on here.
 
"trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Michael Press" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
> [email protected]...
>> In article
>> <[email protected]>,
>> "alex" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>> > In article <[email protected]>,
>>> > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> "alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> >> news:[email protected]...
>>> >> > Guys,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > This was like watching Casablanca. And who are the nazi this time?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Vive la France!!!
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Is this the beginning of a beautiful friendship?
>>> >>
>>> >> Benjo
>>> >
>>> > If I remember the context of that line correctly, the friendship
>>> > between
>>> > an American and a Frenchman isn't sealed until they kill a German
>>> > together.
>>> >
>>> > I'd shoot a Nazi for Ingrid Bergman,
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
>>> > "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
>>> > to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
>>>
>>> The nazi officers were singing Die Wacht am Rhein imposing their voice
>>> at
>>> Rick's bar, when Victor Lazlo asks the band to play La Marseillaise and
>>> little by little all the humiliated customers join the choir and overrun
>>> the
>>> nazis that had to sit down. That is the electrifying moment of the movie
>>> evoked in me.
>>>
>>> BTW: In the end it is Victor the one that keeps the girl.

>>
>> Nevertheless Rick kills Strasser for Ilsa.
>>

>
> I am shocked to discover that doping, er I mean gambling, is going on
> here.


Your syringes, er I mean winnings, sir.

Benjo
 
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>That's like saying New York is a great place, if not for all the rude New
>>>Yorkers.

>>
>>Shut up.
>>
>>Thank you,
>>Steve
>>proud New Yorker

>
>
> Funny thing... after leaving France at the end of the 'tour, my wife & I
> visited London for three days. First time there, and we were warned, not
> just by fellow tourists in France, but even by an American we came across in
> London shortly after arrival, that the Brittish could be quite rude. We came
> across not one instance of that. A couple times when we were, er, dislocated
> (ok, sorta lost), our advances on the locals to ask for directions were
> treated with great kindness.
>
> In all seriousness, I've had zero desire in the past to visit New York. I
> had regarded it as a place that looked too crowded, too busy, too rude. No
> more. It will likely to just another fascinating place to observe people and
> watch how things work.


On a bike tour with my boss (!) in 1980, we ate breakfast one morning
(I believe it was in Cornwall) with an older man, a retired RAF pilot.
We commented on how wonderfully we'd been treated by the English. He
just shook his head and said that simple common courtesy was no longer
to be found among the British. In order to find that, we had to go
to...Canada.
I am amazed to have heard that in surveys of this sort of thing, New
Yorkers repeatedly show up near the head of lists of cities that are
courteous and helpful to strangers.

Steve

Steve

>
> Look for and embrace the differences that different cultures have to offer.
> Observe. Listen more, talk less.
>
> (What's this got to do with bike racing?)
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>



--
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Arial;}}
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"nospam" to reply\par
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Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:


> > In all seriousness, I've had zero desire in the past to visit New York. I
> > had regarded it as a place that looked too crowded, too busy, too rude. No
> > more. It will likely to just another fascinating place to observe people and
> > watch how things work.


But indeed the crowds are why you should go visit New York. You
wouldn't visit it for the solitude and the stunning mountain
vistas. In an increasingly homogenized world, thankfully there
are some places that retain some of their singularity.

> I am amazed to have heard that in surveys of this sort of thing, New
> Yorkers repeatedly show up near the head of lists of cities that are
> courteous and helpful to strangers.


It's the goddamn out-of-towners. They move in, drive rents up,
clog up all the decent neighborhood bars and restaurants, ask for
squidgy bagels, don't know how to read a newspaper on the subway,
and then they have the nerve to go around being *nice* to people!!!

Ben
out-of-towner

> > Look for and embrace the differences that different cultures have to offer.
> > Observe. Listen more, talk less.
> >
> > (What's this got to do with bike racing?)


p.s. The difference between your experiences and the other Mike
probably has something to do with expectations and personalities,
and also where you went. IME Parisian rudeness is most evident in
tourist-trap areas - of course this is true most places, not just
Paris.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
>
> It's the goddamn out-of-towners. They move in, drive rents up,
> clog up all the decent neighborhood bars and restaurants, ask for
> squidgy bagels, don't know how to read a newspaper on the subway,
> and then they have the nerve to go around being *nice* to people!!!
>
> Ben
> out-of-towner


I'm particularly upset with the squdgy bagels.

Steve

>
>
>>>Look for and embrace the differences that different cultures have to offer.
>>>Observe. Listen more, talk less.
>>>
>>>(What's this got to do with bike racing?)

>>

>
> p.s. The difference between your experiences and the other Mike
> probably has something to do with expectations and personalities,
> and also where you went. IME Parisian rudeness is most evident in
> tourist-trap areas - of course this is true most places, not just
> Paris.
>



--
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Arial;}}
{\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove
"nospam" to reply\par
}
 
Robert Chung wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > IME [...] rudeness is most evident in tourist-trap areas

>
> Cause, or effect?


It's a chicken-and-egg problem, no? Well, (channeling gwhite),
given the French taste for central planning and monolithic solutions,
I assumed that long ago, forward-thinking Parisian governments
determined which parts of the city had the least polite inhabitants,
and then located prime tourist attractions there - or more precisely,
future prime tourist attractions, since this planning must have
gone back centuries. Anyway, my point was that if you only go to
the obvious places that are full of bumpkins milling around, it's
not surprising that you occasionally get treated like a bumpkin.

Of course, my experience is limited - from a trip to Paris I only
recall a couple of times that would meet the stereotype. (A more
alarming experience was exiting the hotel and discovering that
the street on the Ile-St-Louis was full of Nazi uniforms. It
turned out they were filming TV or a movie.)
So I can't claim to have made a scientific study here, and
this was a long time ago and probably out of date. I'd be willing
to accept RBR funding for a new fact-finding mission.
 
> If I remember the context of that line correctly, the friendship between
> an American and a Frenchman isn't sealed until they kill a German
> together.



Ironic, given that some say that it took George Bush to unite the Germans &
French... :>)

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Guys,
>> >
>> > This was like watching Casablanca. And who are the nazi this time?
>> >
>> > Vive la France!!!

>>
>>
>> Is this the beginning of a beautiful friendship?
>>
>> Benjo

>
> If I remember the context of that line correctly, the friendship between
> an American and a Frenchman isn't sealed until they kill a German
> together.
>
> I'd shoot a Nazi for Ingrid Bergman,
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
 
<[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

>
>> > In all seriousness, I've had zero desire in the past to visit New York.
>> > I
>> > had regarded it as a place that looked too crowded, too busy, too rude.
>> > No
>> > more. It will likely to just another fascinating place to observe
>> > people and
>> > watch how things work.

>
> But indeed the crowds are why you should go visit New York. You
> wouldn't visit it for the solitude and the stunning mountain
> vistas. In an increasingly homogenized world, thankfully there
> are some places that retain some of their singularity.
>
>> I am amazed to have heard that in surveys of this sort of thing, New
>> Yorkers repeatedly show up near the head of lists of cities that are
>> courteous and helpful to strangers.

>
> It's the goddamn out-of-towners. They move in, drive rents up,
> clog up all the decent neighborhood bars and restaurants, ask for
> squidgy bagels, don't know how to read a newspaper on the subway,
> and then they have the nerve to go around being *nice* to people!!!
>
> Ben
> out-of-towner
>
>> > Look for and embrace the differences that different cultures have to
>> > offer.
>> > Observe. Listen more, talk less.
>> >
>> > (What's this got to do with bike racing?)

>
> p.s. The difference between your experiences and the other Mike
> probably has something to do with expectations and personalities,
> and also where you went. IME Parisian rudeness is most evident in
> tourist-trap areas - of course this is true most places, not just
> Paris.
>

Correct.
Rudeness is also just a perception according our own traditions.
For example the French believe the Americans to be rude, just because they
did not say "Bonjour, S'il vous plait, merci, puis-je, auriez vous
l'amabilité de etc.." but just Hi ! and Bye !
 
>> p.s. The difference between your experiences and the other Mike
>> probably has something to do with expectations and personalities,
>> and also where you went. IME Parisian rudeness is most evident in
>> tourist-trap areas - of course this is true most places, not just
>> Paris.
>>

> Correct.
> Rudeness is also just a perception according our own traditions.
> For example the French believe the Americans to be rude, just because they
> did not say "Bonjour, S'il vous plait, merci, puis-je, auriez vous
> l'amabilité de etc.." but just Hi ! and Bye !


Right! And it's one of those things that you just have to keep at the front
of the mind, because it's so easy to forget "S'l vous plait." Sometimes I
saw it incredibly awkwardly, a complete afterthought, but I figure it's
still better saying it clukily than not at all.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
<Montesquiou> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
> [email protected]...
>> Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

>>
>>> > In all seriousness, I've had zero desire in the past to visit New
>>> > York. I
>>> > had regarded it as a place that looked too crowded, too busy, too
>>> > rude. No
>>> > more. It will likely to just another fascinating place to observe
>>> > people and
>>> > watch how things work.

>>
>> But indeed the crowds are why you should go visit New York. You
>> wouldn't visit it for the solitude and the stunning mountain
>> vistas. In an increasingly homogenized world, thankfully there
>> are some places that retain some of their singularity.
>>
>>> I am amazed to have heard that in surveys of this sort of thing, New
>>> Yorkers repeatedly show up near the head of lists of cities that are
>>> courteous and helpful to strangers.

>>
>> It's the goddamn out-of-towners. They move in, drive rents up,
>> clog up all the decent neighborhood bars and restaurants, ask for
>> squidgy bagels, don't know how to read a newspaper on the subway,
>> and then they have the nerve to go around being *nice* to people!!!
>>
>> Ben
>> out-of-towner
>>
>>> > Look for and embrace the differences that different cultures have to
>>> > offer.
>>> > Observe. Listen more, talk less.
>>> >
>>> > (What's this got to do with bike racing?)

>>
>> p.s. The difference between your experiences and the other Mike
>> probably has something to do with expectations and personalities,
>> and also where you went. IME Parisian rudeness is most evident in
>> tourist-trap areas - of course this is true most places, not just
>> Paris.
>>

> Correct.
> Rudeness is also just a perception according our own traditions.
> For example the French believe the Americans to be rude, just because they
> did not say "Bonjour, S'il vous plait, merci, puis-je, auriez vous
> l'amabilité de etc.." but just Hi ! and Bye !
>
>