VO2 max workouts

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by blkhotrod, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. blkhotrod

    blkhotrod New Member

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    hitting 60 and the vo2 max seems to be in the toilet. is this a good workout to improve/increase or am I wasting my time?:confused:

    6x (3' fast,1'30 rec, 3' fast, 1' rec, 3' fast, 30" rec, 3' fast, 1' rec)
     
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  2. Spunout

    Spunout New Member

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    Why so little recovery? You might be more effective with 1:1 recovery for 3 minute intervals. This way, you are able to really push the intervals. Longer intervals might stand less recovery like 5:3.
     
  3. jeff828

    jeff828 New Member

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    I agree with spunout.
     
  4. blkhotrod

    blkhotrod New Member

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    i was using shorter recovery times to increase my HR. i was under the impression the vo2 max was suppose to be 95-105% max HR? i'll try a longer recovery and see if it will raise my pathetic max HR more than the shorter recovery.
     
  5. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    Forget about your HR.
     
  6. blkhotrod

    blkhotrod New Member

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    Why?
     
  7. Spunout

    Spunout New Member

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    Or, conversely, do longer intervals.

    HR is a response to training load. You're already doing the work, using the energy systems (okay, in the most part after AC power is depleted) in the VO2Max zone even though your HR is not.
     
  8. kuan

    kuan New Member

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    As long as you're working above LT you should be making gains. You might just want to try hitting a certain HR and recovering to about 50%, then add a minute.
     
  9. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    One, your HR is a poor measure of intensity of effort for short efforts due to the delayed response and the fact that you are measuring only one component of your cardio response (i.e., you're not measuring stroke volume). Two, the adaptation benefit derives from the high-intensity effort and not the recovery duration. Focus on the duration and intensity of the high-intensity effort and don't worry about the duration or intensity of the recovery segment. When I do intervals on my trainer, I get off the bike and check emails during the recovery segments.;)
     
  10. blkhotrod

    blkhotrod New Member

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    If there is one thing that seems to be confusing it is the recovery time or amount. I bought this High Intensity Training for Cyclist book by Arnie Baker, MD and on page 110 he has a chapter on 3-5 minute (VO2) intervals where he specifically states "shorter intervals also train VO2 max if recoveries are relatively short". All of his data and graphs show the VO2 maxing out during the last 50% of the time interval, which makes sense. He says unless recoveries are short, the VO2 will not max out until last 25% or not at all during the interval. So do I stick with short recovery intervals (3 min hard, 1 min to 30 sec easy) or do the 3 min hard and spin for 3-5 minutes before doing another? Interesting discussion.:eek:
     
  11. mark_e_smith

    mark_e_smith New Member

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    Does anyone do both long LT (10+ min) intervals AND Vo2 Max (1-5 min) intervals in the same week, or do you just concentrate on one type for a period and then move on to the next?
     
  12. Spunout

    Spunout New Member

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    Does Arnie go on to define 'relatively short'? For your Z5 intervals, 1:1 is the longest rest interval needed (your claim to 'spin 3-5 minutes' is unclear...keep it at 1:1).

    IMHO, relatively short may be 1:1 for Z5 ints, 1:2 for Z6 ints, 1:.2 for Z4 ints.
     
  13. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

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    This year I trained both during the same week for quite some time. My Tu/W/Th routine was either LT/VO2/LT, or VO2/LT/VO2, depending on the intended focus for that particular week.
     
  14. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    The problem is that the short recovery protocol limits the number of high-intensity efforts you can do before you hit your MMP/duration curve. Take, for example, the following two workout scenarios. Scenario #1 is 3min intervals at 120%FTP w/ 3min recovery at 150W. Scenario #2 is 3min intervals at 120%FTP w/ 1.5min recovery at 150W. For both scenarios, FTP is assumed to be 250W and VO2MAX power is 300W.
    Scenario NP(AVG) AP
    #1 257 231
    #2 272 254
    Scenario #1 results in NP of 257 (103%FTP), which is likely sustainable for a set of 4-6 efforts (24-36mins). Scenario #2 results in NP of 272 (109%FTP), which is likely sustainable only for 2 efforts maximum. So, the protocol in Scenario #2 results in total time at VO2MAX power of 6mins versus 12-18mins in Scenario #1. I think the adaptation benefits of Scenario #1 trumps that of Scenario #2.
     
  15. mark_e_smith

    mark_e_smith New Member

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    Wow, you must recover like a champ! I need W as a rest day...or at least endurance.
     
  16. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

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    I used TSS as a tool to make sure I didn't overcook it on Tu or Wed, and jeopardize the quality of the remaining workouts. I was more careful with my post-exercise nutrition and rest during those periods as well. I looked forward to Fridays like never before, and rode Tempo/Endurance on Sat/Sun, but was always ready for more that next week. :)
     
  17. notruthless

    notruthless New Member

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    105% max HR...you must be Super Man! Let us all know how to achieve that level of HR! ;)
     
  18. notruthless

    notruthless New Member

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    105% max HR!? You must be Superman's first cousin! Let us all in on how to achieve that level of HR. ;)
     
  19. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    How about same day? I do it all the time, often doing L4/L5/L6/L7 efforts on the same day.
     
  20. mark_e_smith

    mark_e_smith New Member

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    As in pyramid or criss-cross intervals?
     
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