"Vociferous reactions" elsewhere --

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Peter Moran, Feb 10, 2004.

  1. Peter Moran

    Peter Moran Guest

    ---from those of the "if it ain't so, it should be!!!" school of science.

    "Autism and Vaccines"

    Wall Street Journal (www.wsj.com) (02/09/04) P. A26

    An editorial in the Wall Street Journal was written after a surprising response the paper received
    from a previous editorial about vaccines, in which the editorialist had noted that although there is
    concern that the preservative thimerosal, once used in vaccines, may be the cause of the rise in
    autism cases in children over the past 30 years. There is no scientific data to reflect that

    Letters and e-mail messages subsequently written to the paper accused the editorialist of "fraud," a
    "terrorist act," and presenting an "industry profit promoting agenda," language that is also being
    used in other arenas by a relatively small minority of the population that uses its voice to stifle
    others that have an opposing view.

    The editorialist noted that such vociferous reaction to one statement of fact reflects a dangerous
    movement toward the suppression of scientific information for the advancement of a personal
    viewpoint in attacks on respected organizations. For example, the National Alliance for Autism
    Research, which is steadfastly independent, found through a rigorous Danish study it co-funded that
    there is probably no association between the measles-mumps-rubella combination vaccine and autism,
    yet naysayers immediately attacked the group and slandered its activities despite its record of
    thoughtful research.

    The editorial notes that "researchers have spent years studying the vaccine-autism link, and we hope
    they continue. But if the research disproves a connection--as it has up to now--the autism community
    needs to listen and move on," as research funding only stretches so far and "parents of autistic
    children deserve to see the money spent where it will do the most good."

    Some common sense there.

    Peter Moran

  2. Jan

    Jan Guest

    >Subject: "Vociferous reactions" elsewhere -- From: "Peter Moran" [email protected] Date: 2/9/2004
    >12:40 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]
    >---from those of the "if it ain't so, it should be!!!" school of science.

    From one who says:

    *All medical advances have entailed risk, ever since the first caveman said"I wonder what this
    berry does?".

    Using retroviruses to try and correct lethal and potentially lethal gene defects is a very
    legitimate and logic alavenue of medical research. So this is nothing to do with "conspiracies",
    "coverups" .

    It is a matter of the quality of informed consent that was applied. It would be unusual these days
    for such issues to not be addressed carefully by the researchers and the ethics committees to which
    all clinical trials are submitted thesedays. We cannot know how culpable the doctors are from this
    rather emotive news item.


    AFTER reading the FACTS!!!!

    *Years earlier, a scientist just a few miles away from the Gelsinger’s home in Tucson had raised
    serious questions about whether the experiment was safe.


    • Feb. 8, 2002: FDA letter, attempt to ban Dr. Wilson from other experiments. • March 3, 2000:
    FDA Warning Letter, original findings about the gene therapy experiment.

    (No coverups there,,,,,,,,,,,,,)

    The trouble is, Paul Gelsinger says, Dr. Wilson’s team had never told him that anyone had ever
    raised questions about safety

    (That's fine and dandy according to organized medicine member, Peter Moran.)

    ADVERSE REACTIONS WERE NOT REPORTED And that was just the beginning. Federal investigators, pouring
    through Penn’s records, announced at the conference that they had made a series of startling
    discoveries, raising questions about whether the doctors had covered up problems and broken basic
    test rules.

    In fact, just a few months before Jesse had signed up for the experiment, several monkeys given
    viruses similar to Jesse’s got sick. And two of them died.

    (No coverup there)

    The rules for the experiment said: Even if volunteers didn’t get visibly ill, if tests showed that
    any of them had a significant reaction called “grade 3,” the experiment was supposed to be
    “halted” immediately. Records show there were “grade 3” reactions in more than one patient.
    The first time, doctors stopped, called the government and got permission to continue, saying an
    unusual condition with the patient might have been the cause. The second time, they stopped, called
    and got permission again, citing another unusual condition. But when it happened a third time, they
    didn’t stop, didn’t call. Then, a fourth time. They didn’t stop or call then either

    (No coverups there).

    For their own safety, volunteers weren’t supposed to have a blood ammonia level higher than
    50. But people were coming in with higher levels and without proper approval. The limit was
    raised to 70. When Jesse signed up over the summer, he was within the limits, but records
    show that when Penn doctors tested him, just days before the experiment, his reading was 114
    — more than double the original safety limit.

    (That's way cool huh Peter???)

    HIGH FINANCIAL STAKES With so many red flags from the monkey deaths to the reactions in other
    volunteers, even to Jesse’s own ammonia levels, Why had Dr. Wilson’s team allowed the experiment
    to continue?

    (Wonder if Peter can answer this question?)

    At the University of Pennsylvania, the conflict committee approved Dr. Wilson’s
    arrangement with Genovo. In fact, the university itself owned a piece of his company and
    stood to profit, too.


    In a statement, the university acknowledged that some information “should have been shared
    with the FDA sooner.”

    (Just a minor little slip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)

    There was no information given to Jesse or his family about the monkey deaths. There was no
    information given to Jesse or his family about toxic results in prior patients. There was no
    information that would allow Jesse and his family to make any kind of informed decision.”

    (Peter STILL can't see any coverup!!!! NO dishonesty!)


    He told congress that other private companies in the race for cures had also been doing gene
    therapy experiments and had also gotten adverse reactions. But instead of sharing the
    information, government rules allowed them to stamp those reactions “confidential,”
    classifying them as trade secrets to protect their research investments. So, while the
    government knew about them, other researchers like Dr. Wilson and volunteers like Jesse
    Gelsinger were never allowed to see them.

    (TRust the government!!!)

    “I was outraged,” says Paul. “I had a right to know. Jesse had a right to know.

    (Oh my,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,emotions).

    ***In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that because Dr. Wilson filed “false and
    misleading” reports and “repeatedly and deliberately violated regulations ****


    ***Dr. Wilson filed “false and misleading” reports and “repeatedly and deliberately violated
    regulations ***

    (No coverups,,,,,,,,,,no fraud,,,,,,,,,,no deliberate violations,,,,,,,,,,,,)

    This week marks the third anniversary of Jesse Gelsinger’s death. At the University of
    Pennsylvania, Dr. Wilson

    ****is still on the faculty****

    (Soooooooooo in organized medicine,,,,,,,,,,,)

    ****Filing *false and misleading reports* is A OK,,,,,,,,,,,,****

    ****REPEATED and DELIBERATE violations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is A OK.***

    but no longer in charge of its gene therapy program. And, in Congress, lawmakers are still debating
    legislation to provide more protection for medical volunteers.

    ******in the end, whether Jesse was betrayed by the doctors he and his family thought they could


    So much for Peter Moran. member of EVIL organized medicine.



    Though the MMR-autism question

    ***appear to be resolved,***

    science is always a work in progress; a conclusion is only as good as the methods of the analysis.
    The epidemiological studies, traditional public health tools used to examine the risk factors for a
    disease on a population level,were at a disadvantage here because there is little variation in
    exposure to MMR since children in most developed countries are vaccinated similarly.

    ***Furthermore, the difficulties in diagnosing and determining the exact onset of autism in children
    make it difficult to design appropriate studies and compare the results from those studies.

    *** The committee acknowledges they could **not rule out another possibility***--that MMR vaccine
    could contribute to ASDin a small number of children--

    ***because existing epidemiological tools may not have enough precision todetect the occurrence of
    rare effects like ASD.***

    "Attention should be given to how the material is perceived and used by those with the right and
    desire to know--***the parents of children about to be immunized or those who believe theirchild has
    been adversely affected," the committee says. "Direct input from parents and other stakeholders
    would be invaluable in conducting a systematic and effective evaluation of current communication