Vodka sauce question.



Rodney Myrvaagnes <[email protected]> wrote:

> The study in question is by J. Augustin, E. Augustin, R. Cutrufelli,
> S. Hagen, and C. Teitzel in "Alcohol retention in food preparation," Journal Of The American
> Dietetic Association, Vol 92, No. 4, April 1992. ***************end of paste
>
> It doesn't sound worth looking for, if it doesn't identify starting points, or is the above
> referring to a different paper?

The study used to be available online; it no longer is. From what I remember of it, it used
scientific methods, meaning all the necessary measurements, starting and otherwise, were done. Real-
life recipes were used, one of them by Escoffier, IIRC.

Victor
 
Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> blake murphy <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>>
>>>On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 06:11:58 GMT, Wayne Boatwright <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>About the only way I can enjoy vodka is in a spicy bloody
>>
>> mary
>>
>>>>or in orange or grapefruit juice.
>>>
>>>>Wayne
>>>
>>>give it a whack with pineapple juice sometime.
>>>
>>>your pal, blake
>>>
>>
>>
>> Actually, I have, and it's good. Thanks, Blake. I just need something to mix it with that
>> overpowers the "rubbing alcohol" flavor. <G>
>>
>> Wayne
>
> Actually,if you ever tasted Gray Goose or Ketel One, or any of the premium vodkas, take it
> straight and very chilled, you'll pick up certain nuances and it shouldn't taste like rubbing
> ETOH. I've had Stoli, and IMO, doesn't come close to the aforementioned ones. Absolut is not bad,
> Chopin and Belvedere are also excellent.
>
> Want to make it interesting, add some allspice and cloves to it; you can experiment with other
> spices. It's like plain rice, by itself it really tastes bland. But combine it with sacues,
> cheese, et cetera, and you have a base on which to build a mountain of recipes.
>
> Rich
>

Admittedly, I have never tried anything but Stoli and some lesser brands, so will certainly take
your comments and suggestions under advisement. None I've tried were flavored, and the Stoli was
taken directly from the freezer, plain.

The spice additions do sound interesting.

Thanks, Wayne
 
Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

>>Want to make it interesting, add some allspice and cloves to it; you can experiment with other
>>spices. It's like plain rice, by itself it really tastes bland. But combine it with sacues,
>>cheese, et cetera, and you have a base on which to build a mountain of recipes.
>>
>>Rich
>>
> Admittedly, I have never tried anything but Stoli and some lesser brands, so will certainly take
> your comments and suggestions under advisement. None I've tried were flavored, and the Stoli was
> taken directly from the freezer, plain.
>
> The spice additions do sound interesting.

For this past X_mas, I made 5 different infused vodkas. I used bottom of the line stuff because it's
all either grain neutral spirits filtered through a mile of charcoal to get *everything* out of it
or potato or other alcohol filtered through a mile of charcoal to get *everything* out of it - and
then diluted with water to standard proof ratings. I kept a wide range of vodkas in my bars and
restaurants and through a long string of blind taste tests, nobody ever identified their favorites
compared to others more and less expensive.

Anyway, I infused vodka separately with lemon, orange and lime peels. Also hot peppers (habs and
others) and pomegranate seeds.

They're all wonderful. Much more strongly flavored than the commercial stuff. The hot pepper vodka
is a killer. Add to bloody mary with a dash of lemon vodka. WOW> The orange with a dash of Grand
Marnier is stunning. The lime added to a margarita made with dark tequila is amazing. Pomegranate
and cassis in champagne is sparkling (sorry).

Pastorio
 
Bob wrote:
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>> Want to make it interesting, add some allspice and cloves to it; you can experiment with other
>>> spices. It's like plain rice, by itself it really tastes bland. But combine it with sacues,
>>> cheese, et cetera, and you have a base on which to build a mountain of recipes.
>>>
>>> Rich
>>>
>> Admittedly, I have never tried anything but Stoli and some lesser brands, so will certainly take
>> your comments and suggestions under advisement. None I've tried were flavored, and the Stoli was
>> taken directly from the freezer, plain. The spice additions do sound interesting.
>
>
> For this past X_mas, I made 5 different infused vodkas. I used bottom of the line stuff because
> it's all either grain neutral spirits filtered through a mile of charcoal to get *everything* out
> of it or potato or other alcohol filtered through a mile of charcoal to get *everything* out of it
> - and then diluted with water to standard proof ratings. I kept a wide range of vodkas in my bars
> and restaurants and through a long string of blind taste tests, nobody ever identified their
> favorites compared to others more and less expensive.

You chill Gray Goose and Ketel One, along with others, and I and other people that I know will
distinguish them apart.
>
> Anyway, I infused vodka separately with lemon, orange and lime peels. Also hot peppers (habs and
> others) and pomegranate seeds.
>
> They're all wonderful. Much more strongly flavored than the commercial stuff. The hot pepper vodka
> is a killer. Add to bloody mary with a dash of lemon vodka. WOW> The orange with a dash of Grand
> Marnier is stunning. The lime added to a margarita made with dark tequila is amazing.

All that is great, when you are using cheap vodka and tequila. I myself enjoy Sotol Reposado from
Chihuahua, Mexico--it's similar to a tequila but not quite, because it's not made from the blue
agave as tequila is, but rather, from a similar species which is native only to Chihuahua--See:
http://www.nightclub.com/magazine/June01/spirits.html

. These are to be consumed neat; for mixing them is to destroy the subtle nuances which
they exhibit.

Rich

Pomegranate and cassis in champagne is sparkling (sorry).
>
> Pastorio
>

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.
 
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:30:29 +0100, Victor Sack wrote:

> Rodney Myrvaagnes <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The study in question is by J. Augustin, E. Augustin, R. Cutrufelli, S. Hagen, and C. Teitzel in
>> "Alcohol retention in food preparation," Journal Of The American Dietetic Association, Vol 92,
>> No. 4, April 1992. ***************end of paste
>>
>> It doesn't sound worth looking for, if it doesn't identify starting points, or is the above
>> referring to a different paper?
>
> The study used to be available online; it no longer is. From what I remember of it, it used
> scientific methods, meaning all the necessary measurements, starting and otherwise, were done. Real-
> life recipes were used, one of them by Escoffier, IIRC.

"All the necessary measurements" is not easily compatible with "real life recipes".

Alcohol/water mixtures boil fairly predictably, the boiling temperature and the vapor mix are
tightly dependent on the proportions in the liquid. Unless some separation technique is occurring
(an oddly shaped pan lid or fortunate configuration of an aluminum foil cover is acting as a reflux
head) the amount of alcohol remaining should be perfectly predicted by the percentage of alcohol at
the start, and the percentage of liquid boiled away (or remaining). ANY cooking method that cooks
off at least half the liquid will essentially eliminate the alcohol. Conversely, a cooking method
that retains all of the liquid should fail to eliminate much of the alcohol. The referenced study
identified neither the starting percentage of alcohol nor the proportinon of liquid evaporated
during the cooking.

Martin
--
Martin Golding | Anyone who eats three meals a day should understand
 
On 2004-02-08, Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:

> 2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
> volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.

OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?

nb
 
notbob wrote:

> On 2004-02-08, Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
>>volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.
>
> OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?

It's French for HTML.

Bob
 
"Bob (this one)" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> notbob wrote:
>
>> On 2004-02-08, Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
>>>volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.
>>
>> OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?
>
> It's French for HTML.
>
> Bob

Oh... Then those aren't Ethel's web pages?

Wayne
 
Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> "Bob (this one)" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>>notbob wrote:
>
>>>On 2004-02-08, Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
>>>>volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.
>>>
>>>OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?
>>
>>It's French for HTML.
>>
>>Bob
>
> Oh... Then those aren't Ethel's web pages?

Good eye. They USED to be Ethel's.

Oh, and she changed the spelling now that she works at Hooter's. It's Ethyl.

Pastorio
 
"Bob (this one)" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> "Bob (this one)" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>notbob wrote:
>>
>>>>On 2004-02-08, Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
>>>>>volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.
>>>>
>>>>OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?
>>>
>>>It's French for HTML.
>>>
>>>Bob
>>
>> Oh... Then those aren't Ethel's web pages?
>
> Good eye. They USED to be Ethel's.
>
> Oh, and she changed the spelling now that she works at Hooter's. It's Ethyl.
>
> Pastorio
>
>

Heh heh!
 
Martin Golding <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:30:29 +0100, Victor Sack wrote:
>
> > Rodney Myrvaagnes <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> The study in question is by J. Augustin, E. Augustin, R. Cutrufelli, S. Hagen, and C. Teitzel
> >> in "Alcohol retention in food preparation," Journal Of The American Dietetic Association, Vol
> >> 92, No. 4, April 1992. ***************end of paste
> >>
> >> It doesn't sound worth looking for, if it doesn't identify starting points, or is the above
> >> referring to a different paper?
> >
> > The study used to be available online; it no longer is. From what I remember of it, it used
> > scientific methods, meaning all the necessary measurements, starting and otherwise, were done.
> > Real-life recipes were used, one of them by Escoffier, IIRC.
>
> "All the necessary measurements" is not easily compatible with "real life recipes".
>
> Alcohol/water mixtures boil fairly predictably, the boiling temperature and the vapor mix are
> tightly dependent on the proportions in the liquid. Unless some separation technique is occurring
> (an oddly shaped pan lid or fortunate configuration of an aluminum foil cover is acting as a
> reflux head) the amount of alcohol remaining should be perfectly predicted by the percentage of
> alcohol at the start, and the percentage of liquid boiled away (or remaining). ANY cooking method
> that cooks off at least half the liquid will essentially eliminate the alcohol.

So, if you boil some wine until half of it is cooked off, all the alcohol is eliminated?

> Conversely, a cooking method that retains all of the liquid should fail to eliminate much of the
> alcohol. The referenced study identified neither the starting percentage of alcohol nor the
> proportinon of liquid evaporated during the cooking.

Do you have an access to the study, or do you go by memory? I seem to remember - and my memory is
notoriously unreliable - that those percentages were identified...

Victor
 
notbob wrote:
> On 2004-02-08, Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
>>volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.
>
>
> OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?
>
> nb
Ethanol; or the alcohol found in wine, beer, et cetera.

Rich

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.
 
Richard Periut wrote:

> notbob wrote:
>
>> On 2004-02-08, Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> 2 The ETOH of the vodka evaporates during cooking; and considering that vodka is 40% ETOH by
>>> volume, what is left is H20 and some residual unfermentable sugars, et cetera.
>>
>> OK, I give. What the Hell is ETOH?
>>
>> nb
>
> Ethanol; or the alcohol found in wine, beer, et cetera.

I like my answer better. Wildly inaccurate, but still better... <g>

Pastorio
 
On 2004-02-18, Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ethanol; or the alcohol found in wine, beer, et cetera.

That's one of the lamest acronyms ever. Who comes up with this ****?

Help stamp out senseless acronyms. Join ****!

-Curmudgeons for the Reduction of Acronym Propagation

nb
 
notbob wrote:
>
> On 2004-02-18, Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Ethanol; or the alcohol found in wine, beer, et cetera.
>
> That's one of the lamest acronyms ever. Who comes up with this ****?
>
> Help stamp out senseless acronyms. Join ****!
>
> -Curmudgeons for the Reduction of Acronym Propagation
>
> nb

(laugh!) I'm in, where do I send the membership dues?

nancy
 
On 2004-02-18, Nancy Young <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> (laugh!) I'm in, where do I send the membership dues?

No membership, but feel free to send dues. :)

nb
 
Rodney Myrvaagnes <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I first saw it on a menu in Quebec City in 1965. I didn't order it because it didn't make sense to
> me. The subsequent discussions on this group lead me to think of trying it sometime.
>
> I don't believe, without further evidence, that a large fraction of the alcohol remains after
> cooking. If that were true, stills wouldn't work in a reasonable period of time.

I had some jarred vodka tomato sauce from Trader Joe's that was definitely potent!

Karen
 
On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:32:36 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2004-02-18, Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ethanol; or the alcohol found in wine, beer, et cetera.
>
>That's one of the lamest acronyms ever. Who comes up with this ****?
>
>Help stamp out senseless acronyms. Join ****!
>
>-Curmudgeons for the Reduction of Acronym Propagation
>
>nb

there's always SEA (society to eliminate acronyms).

your pal, blake
 
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