Want to change chain gear wheel to larger

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by jeffpas, May 22, 2016.

  1. jeffpas

    jeffpas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    bike_old.jpg bike_old2.jpg bike_new1.jpg Hi, I have a 46 tooth wheel on my old bike (largest size) but the new bike I am switching to only has 42.
    The old bike wheel has an "AccuShift PowerRing" label on it, but I can see the screw holes are in different locations from the new one (pics of old bike and chain wheel, and new one below as soon as I can figure out how to upload them).
    I really like the faster speed with the larger toothed wheel. You would not think it makes such a big difference, but it does.

    It looks like I can't swap the old wheel to the new bike. But does anybody know what the new chain wheel is by the pictures, and where online I might buy a larger wheel that would fit it and could be swapped? I have seen YouTube videos where they say you can do it without even removing the pedal sometimes, provided you find the right replacement and of course raise the chain mechanism higher.
    But my biggest problem is finding the piece I think. Thanks for any help!
     

    Attached Files:

    #1 jeffpas, May 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
    Tags:


  2. jeffpas

    jeffpas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    bike_new4.jpg

    It wouldn't let me edit in time. Here's the new bike. Its a Montague Paratrooper "Express" and the gears are Shimano as far as I can see.
    Although both bikes say Suntour at least somewhere.
     
    #2 jeffpas, May 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
  3. divinemaredi

    divinemaredi New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well, I would also like to know the answer to your question, you see, I don't know much about that. But your new bike is beautiful my friend! Gorgeous indeed!
     
  4. dabac

    dabac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,277
    Likes Received:
    139
    Your new bike has riveted chainrings. They're not meant to be replaced at all.
    If both bikes use the same bottom brackets, you might be able to use the whole crankset from the old bike.
    You'd need a special tool called a crank puller to do that job.
    And some skill - or a torque wrench - to get the reinstall right.
    Another option is to check the number of teeth on the smallest rear sprocket. Switching cassette or freewheel to one with a smaller smallest sprocket might buy you some speed.
    But the biggest thing - how fast are you going?
    My commuter has a 42/11 as a highest gear, which gets me to 25-28 mph before spinning out. And I'm nothing special WRT pedalling.
    On that bike, It takes fairly unusual riding circumstances before spinning out past 25 mph has any impact on travel time and overall speed
    So unless you're there, work on riding technique, not bike technology.
     
    Zephron likes this.
  5. jeffpas

    jeffpas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, just my luck it would be unremovable chainrings. That is just insane! Why would they design them that way.
    The fact is the old bike works perfectly fine and had everything I wanted, and worked great. The new bike was a considerable investment (at least for me) and its difficult enough to justify that, let alone when it has drawbacks compared to the old one. That just breaks the camels back, so-to-speak.
    Add to this the fact the new bike was bought online, and costs $65 to return ship.

    The highest (46 tooth) gear is what I always use riding, it is not something I want to give up. I'm totally thrown off with the smaller gears. But its looking like a fortune to fix, or costly to back out.
    Game over, apparently.....
     
    #5 jeffpas, May 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
  6. dabac

    dabac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,277
    Likes Received:
    139
    Because most low-/ mid-range bikes never get ridden far enough for the chainrings to wear out.
    Because riveted cranksets are cheap, and will often cost less than a pair of chainrings.
     
  7. dabac

    dabac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,277
    Likes Received:
    139
    Why did you buy a new bike if you liked your old one so much?
    Many bikes are still so generic that unless the frame had rusted out it could almost certainly be renovated,
    So:
    If you're doing all your riding on the biggest front, your riding style - one way or another - is quite questionable.
    Odds are good that you could move the whole crankset from your old bike to your new bike. Or learn to ride in a more generally accepted manner.
    Or simply buy another, riveted crankset with a tooth count more to your liking.
     
  8. jeffpas

    jeffpas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    The reason is that the Montague is foldable. The frame has a snap lock mechanism that allows you to bend it in half, so you can stow it in the back of your vehicle.

    The bike I originally had as I said is perfectly fine for me, and I've had it for at least 15 years. However the only drawback has been the hassle of bike racks all these years, as I'd like to take it places to ride such as St Louis, etc, where I would have to worry about theft. The folding bike therefore, seems a great solution for me.

    But I didn't want to have a crappier bike just because it was foldable. So, I put down what was for me a lot of money for a very good foldable bike- arguably, the best out there for that category. Many of the cheaper ones on the market aren't very stable. I'm not a professional biker, I just have a bike for breakdowns and occasional riding but was willing to spend that much.

    So I ended up spending about twice on the foldable bike as I spent for the original bike, with the reasoning that by doing that I could have at least as good a bike as I have now, but able to be stowed. But as you see its got something about it that will bother me to no end. Thus, blowing my whole plan to smithereens, leaving me clutching my empty wallet and feeling very much the fool. I am now in damage control.
    OK I think you answered my question. So the whole crankset can be replaced all as one piece?
    Maybe I can look at that, change the gear size, and happy ending.
    As long as the part is actually made to fit this bike and doesn't cost $600, why not just swap it out and there you go. If it can be done.
     
    #8 jeffpas, May 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
  9. jeffpas

    jeffpas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    If I'm going to ride this another 15 years, or maybe the rest of my life I'd just like a few things on it, especially if I'm paying for a whole new bike that's all. Trying to do a little research and see if I can make the purchase work. I'll be back to harass everyone again in 2031.....
     
    #9 jeffpas, May 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
  10. dabac

    dabac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,277
    Likes Received:
    139
    OK, having looked over the specs, it looks like your new bike - apart from being a folder - is a poorer bike than your old one.
    Your new bike has a 6-speed freewheel rear, while the specs I find for Raleigh M50 all say they are freehub rear wheels.
    This is a stronger design, and means that the smallest sprocket of your old bike is smaller than the smallest sprocket of your new bike.

    So a less tool-intensive option is to ignore the crank, take the complete rear wheel and shifter from the old bike and install on the new bike. Buy and install a brake levers for V-brakes and you're all set.

    (ignoring things like chain wear etc...)
     
  11. jeffpas

    jeffpas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    That was my fear of course. I thought geez if I spend twice as much on a folding bike it would be at least as good as a regular one.
    However I'm willing to take that bad news, as long as I can at least have the gearset I used to have. Since I last posted I went to a bicycle shop and they told me they can swap the right crank out pretty easily for a larger tooth and a new one is only $30. Which is less than half the shipping cost to return the bike. So I'm in, its already in the shop.

    I'm a little peeved at Montague Co. for what I think is false advertising, insofar as their "Paratrooper Express" is obviously after seeing it a cheapened down version of their Paratrooper, which costs about $230 more. Its not the one that got such great reviews on Youtube.
    So instead of getting a great Ebay deal on a Paratrooper, I got sold a Chump-a-Trooper. Thinner tires, minus extras like the folding carrier stand and I suspect a cheaper gear system. Although it does as far as I see still have their patented stable folding frame.
    However I'll tell you now I spent around $350 for the Raleigh, and it was $600 for the Montague.... for my uses which is occasional riding and breakdowns its really pushing it for what I wanted to spend. Having ridden the other one all these years I could already tell by riding the Raleigh its a little better bike performance-wise its lighter and rides smoother, but eh well, can't have everything. I really like the folding feature which I know I'll use and you only live once..
     
    #11 jeffpas, May 23, 2016
    Last edited: May 23, 2016
  12. jeffpas

    jeffpas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK I've since found out with a little research that the Montague Paratrooper Express is the replacement for the old discontinued Montague SwissBike X50, apparently masquerading under a new name for 2016. It looks like pretty much the same bike. The reason for this seems apparent when you go on Amazon and see all the poor reviews for the X50. That bike was accused of having 'chain store quality components' and one person even said the wheels bent after some hard riding, after which a bike shop told them to get better wheels.

    That would mean the "Express" is riding in on the coat tails of the Paratrooper name, as the original Paratrooper gets reviews such as this one on YouTube, which is what sold me on the bike to begin with:



    Does anybody agree with that? Just wondering if what I bought was worth $600.
    Would like to hear opinions from other people that bike a lot.... thanks!
     
    #12 jeffpas, May 23, 2016
    Last edited: May 23, 2016
  13. dabac

    dabac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,277
    Likes Received:
    139
    I'm wondering why you're so keen on your 46T.
    What was your average speed with the old bike?
    Going on the bikepedia spec, an average ability rider would be able to stay on power up to something like 28-30 mph on your old Raleigh.
    You seem like a casual, occasional rider. How often, and for how long are you even above 20 mph on your rides?
    Even the Montague would be good for 22-25 mph.
    If you're not there, worry about pedalling technique instead of bike technology.
    Either you're using your gears wrong, or you've got some seriously bad riding habits.
     
  14. jeffpas

    jeffpas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know people are always complaining that I like the 46T, but that's what I like. I have no reasons really. If I had reasons, they wouldn't satisfy anyone.
    I suppose in the end it comes down to are you happier with a new bike now that you spent the money. Maybe you just hate the color green. If so, you might take a freebie, but why pay $600.00 to switch to and then ride the rest of your life on a green bike. If you do that, whose the fool? Surely yourself.

    I'm obviously disappointed its not the 'complete' Paratrooper. Unfortuately my shopping defenses were thwarted by reading reviews on YouTube and Amazon which were really for a different bike (regular vs 'Express'). But I hope its worth at least what I paid for it.
     
  15. dabac

    dabac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,277
    Likes Received:
    139
    I'm trying to look out for you here.

    It's your money, and your future health. Spend it as you wish.

    BUT:
    Unless you ride in the highest gear pretty much all the time, odds are that you have the same gearing ratio available elsewhere.
    Meaning new bike travels as old bike, only in another gear.
    And maths/mechanics are what they are. 46/15 - a likely 2nd or 3rd smallest sprocket on your old bike - is darn close to the same gearing as 42/14 - a likely highest gear for your new bike.

    If you ALWAYS ride in the highest gear, that's not such a hot idea.
    Exactly how bad it is depends on anatomy, amount and style of riding.

    But it's quite well agreed that knees don't like high loads at high degrees of bending - which is what you get if you ride hard on high gears.
    Repeated (rapid) motions at low loads tend not to upset knees anywhere near as much.

    Retraining to use a higher cadence (pedalling pace) and lower loads is about the 2nd advice given to people complaining of knee pain due to bike riding.
    The first being to check the saddle height.

    But sure, if you're only pootling around the block a few times every now and then, you're unlikely to do yourself any damage regardless of how you ride.
     
  16. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,723
    Likes Received:
    126
    FWIW ....

    First. I don't know why you feel that you can't swap the rear wheel from your old bike to your new bike ..

    Granted, the RALEIGH appears to have an 8-speed Cassette, but ...

    For all intents-and-purposes, the indexing on your new bike is close-enough to be considered the same (i.e., it's compatible) ...

    You will possibly need to adjust both of the rear derailleur's STOPS & lose the use of either the largest-or-smallest Cog (presumably, you would choose to "lose" the use of the largest Cog ... alternatively, working on the presumption that your "new" bike has a 7-speed Freewheel, you could replace the old Cassette with a new 7-speed Cassette), but you would immediately have a slightly taller high gear (42-12 instead of presumably 42-13).
    In fact, with the exception of the seatpost (it may-or-may-not be the same size) and the front derailleur (because the clamps probably are two different sizes), you can theoretically swap EVERYTHING else from your Raleigh to you Montague, and vice-versa ...
    Looking at the SunRace crankset on your new bike, it appears that ALL THREE (probably steel ... probably suitable for use as a small BOAT ANCHOR!) chainrings & guard may be a single unit which is held in place by the four, removable (?) chainring bolts which are holding the assembly onto the spider. A relatively minor problem with the design is that it appears that you would need to remove the driveside crank arm to remove its spider ... whether or not the splines do anything other than facilitate assembly at the factory or whether the splines may actually be functional in securing the chainrings even though they do not appear to be 'crimped' the way they are on Shimano's cranks is not readily evident from the picture ...

    YOU will need to buy a crank puller ... I recommend the older style Park Tool crank remover which is designed to be used with cranks which mate to square taper BB spindles ... ~$20.

    YOU will also need a "Shimano"-compatible Cartridge BB remover ... the price varies ... $10-$20+ ... if in doubt & you have the option, choose one which can also handle an ISIS BB (i.e., it will be a 'deeper' socket).​

    That's a long way of saying that while I reckon that it is probably possible to put a 46t-or-48t 104BCD chaniring on the particular crankset, you will also need a separate 32-or-34t middle chainring + a Granny (if you want one).

    The spider presumably has two more tabs which may-or-may-not need to be drilled to accept the chainring bolts ...

    Which means that it would probably be cost effective to simply buy a replacement crankset & BB (at this point, I recommend you consider a Shimano Hollowtech II or FSA MegaExo (which is compatible with the Shimano Hollowtech II) crankset & BB) ...

    Shimano's Hollowtech II BB cups require yet ANOTHER tool ...​
    The threading on the MegaExo BB cups has a infinitesimally smaller OD, and it seems that they can often be threaded-and-tightened without a tool!?!

    BTW, the non-driveside cup has a LEFT HAND THREAD on all English threaded BBs.​
    The only other tools you should need are a set of METRIC Allen Wrenches ... generic/($2 per set) Metric Allen Wrenches will be good enough ...

    ROAD bike brake levers typically need either an Allen Wrench or Torx Wrench which has a longer (4+") shaft.​

    If you decide not to swap the one crankset & BB for the other AND if you never use the Granny chainring then YOU may want to consider a ROAD crankset (53/39, 52/39, 50/34, etc.) & matching BB ...

    There are MORE price-range options if you choose a ROAD crankset. ​

    FYI. The Raleigh's older, SunTour crank probably uses a 113mm asymmetrical spindle ... and, the SunRace crank probably uses a symmetrical spindle.​

    So, IMO, there are a few options which require varying levels of skill ...
    1. swap rear wheel from the one bike to the other ... skill level may involve adjusting the rear derailleur's STOPS & possibly tweaking the indexing (there are MANY online resources which can walk you through the processes) ... this is the "can" with the fewest worms ...
    2. either swap the cranksets OR simply replace the SunRace crankset with any ROAD crankset & BB which you will buy off of eBay (and, re-sell the SunRace crank & BB for $10+ plus shipping to whomever OR set aside in a box for some future project) ... the required skill level is modest & it's mostly a matter of having the components you want to use + the tools ...
      • in either case, you will need a crank puller (get the older style PARK TOOL crank puller which is designed for square taper BB spindles)
      • I would strongly consider a Shimano Hollowtech II compatible crank (or, compatible FSA MegaExo crankset & BB) which uses "external" BB cups just because you may not need an installation if you opt for the FSA BB cups (again, the threads on FSA's MegaExo cups are often-or-always machined with a slightly smaller OD than Shimano's equivalent Hollowtech II BB cups). Expect to pay $50-to-many-hundred depending on the model you choose-and-buy and where you choose to buy any components from.
    3. you can re-lace the rear wheel on a Shimano/-compatible MTB Freehub ... cost can be <$60 if you DIY and choose one of Shimano's less expensive hubs & Cassettes AND as long as you buy the parts off of eBay. The required skill level is comparatively high for most people.
    Really, IMO, the bottom line is that if the frame is the same as on the more expensive variants, then in the worst-case-scenario, the lesser components are really only an inconvenience (remember, they can ALL be replaced on an as-needed basis OR when the spirit moves you ...) AND (consequently) I don't think that you need to have any buyer's remorse over the choice of the base model vs. one of the more expensive variants.
     
    #16 alfeng, May 24, 2016
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
Loading...
Loading...