Was I in the wrong?



sussexvlogger

New Member
Jan 22, 2013
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I'm trying to work out if this was my fault or not? I had already taken the lane, the driver hadn't indicated and there was a flow of traffic behind me. I'm sure what he did was wrong.
 

Volnix

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2011
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So what if it was or not? It happens alot. Most car drivers even if they see a bike coming they assume that there is a good 2 years before they reach them so they go for the turn etc... Its most annoying when they seem like they are going for the turn and you stop, only for them to stop too and signal you to go before them. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

By the way, this reminds me of something... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif May I ask, how long have you been commuting with the bike? I am asking because some people who just start commuting have an incredible feeling of righteousness, an overwhelming feeling that the non-cyclists are a bunch of destructive zombies and occasionally that might lead into road-rage! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

This also happens between cyclists. I was cycling back, one day when I run into a woman, in her forties, on the cycling lane. I pass by and some meters later I slow down, probably to check some ehmmm, "readings from my cycling computer"... and there she is... all angry and stuff, starting to tell me that "if I was not planning on keeping the overtaking speed why I went passed her anyway!' She was in a mood for a bad conversation so I just didnt reply and went on. She also had this "Hell yeah I go to demonstrations" look on her face... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

After a while on commuting its most likely that you will get sick and tired of finding right and wrong on the road and will be just going for the distance you want to cover and not think about it at all, even if you get some wrong stuff happening on the road. Unfortunately accidents also occur after you get used to commuting due to getting too used to it...
 

alienator

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Jun 10, 2004
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Volnix said:
So what if it was or not? It happens alot. Most car drivers even if they see a bike coming they assume that there is a good 2 years before they reach them so they go for the turn etc... Its most annoying when they seem like they are going for the turn and you stop, only for them to stop too and signal you to go before them. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif By the way, this reminds me of something... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif  May I ask, how long have you been commuting with the bike? I am asking because some people who just start commuting have an incredible feeling of righteousness, an overwhelming feeling that the non-cyclists are a bunch of destructive zombies and occasionally that might lead into road-rage! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif This also happens between cyclists. I was cycling back, one day when I run into a woman, in her forties, on the cycling lane. I pass by and some meters later I slow down, probably to check some ehmmm, "readings from my cycling computer"... and there she is... all angry and stuff, starting to tell me that "if I was not planning on keeping the overtaking speed why I went passed her anyway!' She was in a mood for a bad conversation so I just didnt reply and went on. She also had this "Hell yeah I go to demonstrations" look on her face...  /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif After a while on commuting its most likely that you will get sick and tired of finding right and wrong on the road and will be just going for the distance you want to cover and not think about it at all, even if you get some wrong stuff happening on the road. Unfortunately accidents also occur after you get used to commuting due to getting too used to it...
Wrong on many counts. First, it matters that the student driver was in the wrong. Not stating as much and not pointing as much--especially on the part of the driving instructor--only ingrains bad driving behavior. Second, most drivers do see cyclists and obey the rules, at least in this country and in the UK. If they didn't, there'd be a lot more injured and dead cyclists. sussexvlogger did things correctly. It's pretty bad form to pass somebody and then slow right in front of them. It's a great way to cause an accident. Cyclists need to pay attention, too. Lastly, riders sicking up for themselves does not lead to road rage. Road rage is the result of drivers not being able to control their emotions. Road rage is not the fault of cyclist.
 

jpr95

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2010
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I'd say you were technically in the right. However, some sage advice from my father long ago was, "There is a such thing as being dead right." It looked from the video like that car was obviously coming into your lane leaving you plenty of time to react to that. You don't have to be on guard for cars doing the right things--you have to be on the lookout for cars about to do the wrong things, and act accordingly.
 

alienator

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Jun 10, 2004
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jpr95 said:
I'd say you were technically in the right.  However, some sage advice from my father long ago was, "There is a such thing as being dead right."  It looked from the video like that car was obviously coming into your lane leaving you plenty of time to react to that.  You don't have to be on guard for cars doing the right things--you have to be on the lookout for cars about to do the wrong things, and act accordingly.
You'll note that sussexvlogger did the right thing, both in taking the lane and in avoiding contact with the car. He quite clearly slowed down.
 

dhk2

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2006
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Yes, the learner was wrong. He didn't even signal, and changed into your lane suddenly while you were passing. Let's hope his instructor corrected him. The reason they put L stickers on learner's cars is so others can be alert that they might do something dumb or dangerous.

The good news is you reacted well, braking and yelling out. Regardless of what car driver's do, and who's "in the right", we've got to be alert and prepared to take defensive action since we're the ones at risk. If you continue to ride on busy London streets, incidents like this will no doubt happen again.
 

Volnix

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2011
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Originally Posted by dhk2 .

got to be alert and prepared to take defensive action since we're the ones at risk.
Probably the best practice when cycling, is acting defensively.
 

Volnix

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2011
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Originally Posted by alienator .


Wrong on many counts. First, it matters that the student driver was in the wrong. Not stating as much and not pointing as much--especially on the part of the driving instructor--only ingrains bad driving behavior. Second, most drivers do see cyclists and obey the rules, at least in this country and in the UK. If they didn't, there'd be a lot more injured and dead cyclists. sussexvlogger did things correctly.

It's pretty bad form to pass somebody and then slow right in front of them. It's a great way to cause an accident. Cyclists need to pay attention, too.

Lastly, riders sicking up for themselves does not lead to road rage. Road rage is the result of drivers not being able to control their emotions. Road rage is not the fault of cyclist.
Sure it matters if there is an accident and the police comes over to short things out. But how it actually matters in telling one driver (who probably knows that what they are doing is wrong or not) I dont know. Maybe if you are not that bored on telling them you can alert them of the situation so they wont do it again, but... You would probably start spending alot of time just informing the drivers of their driving everytime you go for a commute.

I am not saying that leaving this bad behaviour unmentioned helps either but, maybe you are not bored in telling everyone everytime they are marginally illegal or not careful but I am. (I usually commute in a big city, and that usually involves a lane of illegaly double parked cars. Its dangerous, its illegal and if I was to mention that to the police I would have to stop every 5 meters to call the police. I have also commuted to other countries with the bike and its not that much different. Just a different form of problems). I just want to go where I wanna go, safe and without an accident. The more careful the drivers around are, the better.

I was not talking about passing the bike and then immediately slowing down, when she catched up with me it was something like 15minutes later. She didnt have all her marbles up there...

I am sticking up for my self when on the road. Thats why I would ride with a strobe, allthough annoying its pretty legal here. Drivers tend to have quite a problem controlling their emotions when cyclists are involved, at least thats what I have noticed...
 

bartsie

New Member
Jun 20, 2011
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Yes, although taking revenge by immediately undertaking may not be the wisest course of action. Actually, isn't overtaking on the inside still illegal in the UK? (I certainly see loads of it in Silly Cyclists digests though.)
 

sussexvlogger

New Member
Jan 22, 2013
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Thank's for your replies, And Bartsie, yes it is illegal to undertake in the UK although it was either myself going on the inside of the vehicle or hit his rear end. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

(also note: I stay behind the bus as I knew there was a bus stop coming up on the left) :)
 

An old Guy

Active Member
Feb 12, 2011
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The goal of driving is not to obey the law. The law just provides some guidance.

The goal is to get home safely.
 

jpr95

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Oct 11, 2010
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Originally Posted by An old Guy .

The goal is to get home safely.
...without killing others, whether their vehicle has more or fewer wheels than yours.
 

dhk2

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Aug 8, 2006
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Originally Posted by sussexvlogger .

Thank's for your replies, And Bartsie, yes it is illegal to undertake in the UK although it was either myself going on the inside of the vehicle or hit his rear end. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

(also note: I stay behind the bus as I knew there was a bus stop coming up on the left) :)
OK guys, help me out with the term "undertaking". Does it mean passing on the left (passenger side) of the vehicle, or on a "dual carriageway", does it mean passing in the left (outside) lane rather than moving to the right hand lane to "overtake"? Also, is the term "passing" used in the UK interchangeably with "overtaking"?
 

sussexvlogger

New Member
Jan 22, 2013
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Undertaking = Passing on the left hand side of a vehicle = Illegal
Overtaking = Passing on the right hand side of a vehicle = Legal where safe to do so
 

dhk2

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Aug 8, 2006
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Originally Posted by sussexvlogger .

Undertaking = Passing on the left hand side of a vehicle = Illegal
Overtaking = Passing on the right hand side of a vehicle = Legal where safe to do so
Thanks for that. I'll be armed with a new English word when I go back to the UK this spring. I did a lot of miles as a car passenger last fall, and was surprised at the amount of traffic, speeds and aggressive driving/tailgating on the A and M roads. The roundabouts are another thing altogether. Tried getting behind the wheel in a controlled, low traffic setting, but found it really difficult to drive on the other side of the car and the road, particularly at intersections. Would want a lot more practice before getting into the crazy traffic flow.
 

sussexvlogger

New Member
Jan 22, 2013
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I have been commuting since 2010, but with this bike since November 2012, sorry.. Didn't see that part of the post before :p
 

sussexvlogger

New Member
Jan 22, 2013
14
2
0
Originally Posted by Volnix .

So what if it was or not? It happens alot. Most car drivers even if they see a bike coming they assume that there is a good 2 years before they reach them so they go for the turn etc... Its most annoying when they seem like they are going for the turn and you stop, only for them to stop too and signal you to go before them. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

By the way, this reminds me of something... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif May I ask, how long have you been commuting with the bike? I am asking because some people who just start commuting have an incredible feeling of righteousness, an overwhelming feeling that the non-cyclists are a bunch of destructive zombies and occasionally that might lead into road-rage! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

This also happens between cyclists. I was cycling back, one day when I run into a woman, in her forties, on the cycling lane. I pass by and some meters later I slow down, probably to check some ehmmm, "readings from my cycling computer"... and there she is... all angry and stuff, starting to tell me that "if I was not planning on keeping the overtaking speed why I went passed her anyway!' She was in a mood for a bad conversation so I just didnt reply and went on. She also had this "Hell yeah I go to demonstrations" look on her face... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

After a while on commuting its most likely that you will get sick and tired of finding right and wrong on the road and will be just going for the distance you want to cover and not think about it at all, even if you get some wrong stuff happening on the road. Unfortunately accidents also occur after you get used to commuting due to getting too used to it...
[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]I have been commuting since 2010, but with this bike since November 2012, sorry.. Didn't see that part of the post before :p[/COLOR]
 

Volnix

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2011
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Originally Posted by sussexvlogger .

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]I have been commuting since 2010, but with this bike since November 2012, sorry.. Didn't see that part of the post before :p[/COLOR]
It looks like a road bike with shifter-brake levers... Can you brake fast enough with those? Have you seen these?:




You can put those on the handle-bar and have some easier to pull brake levers. They are advertized as "cyclocross brake levers". They are probably braking faster then the shifter-brake levers... meaning that they are easier to reach and operate then the shifter-brake levers.

One accident that I once had, was a car pulling out from a gas station at exactly the moment when I was passing in front of the gas station. I rammed the rear door and ended up in the hospital for check ups... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/mad.gif But.............. I got the day off and ended up having lunch at home! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

The police came over, I had an alcho-test and had the pleasure of seeing the machine read out 0.0%, (if only they tested me in the afternoon lolololol) and after a trip to the police station I was also cleared of any responsibility over the accident. Which means that the other person was responsible, which means that they should paint her vehicle orange and put signs on it saying "Baaad driver" but I dont know what happened with that... She wasnt cute or anything either!

Braking fast is essential! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
 

alienator

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2004
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Volnix said:
You can put those on the handle-bar and have some easier to pull brake levers. They are advertized as "cyclocross brake levers". They are probably braking faster then the shifter-brake levers... meaning that they are easier to reach and operate then the shifter-brake levers.
Easier to reach and operate? There's nothing to suggest that at all. Braking faster? Again, there's nothing that suggests as much.
 

danfoz

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2011
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Originally Posted by alienator .


Easier to reach and operate? There's nothing to suggest that at all. Braking faster? Again, there's nothing that suggests as much.
I would agree as much in that different hand positions can result in different braking results under duress. Slow breaking is one thing, breaking hard to save ones life, like anything, requires regular drills and a familiarity with what happens to ones body weight (and therefore one's body in it's relation to the bicycle underneath) as a result of sudden deceleration to potentially get right. Additionally, even regular practice does not garantee that the end result will be the one we desire, but it can dramatically improve the odds for a positive outcome.