Was Jan really that bad?



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YIMan

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Jul 2, 2005
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Apologies if this has been covered in the lengthy "what's wrong Jan" thread......which seems to focus on there being something wrong with Ullrich.

I don't necessarily think there was anything majorly wrong with Jan, though the crash cannot have helped. I don't think Jan was bad.....it's just that Armstrong was too good.

If you look at the stage times, aside from Armstrong and Zabrinskie who went earlier in better conditions, everyone else is in a heap between a minute(ish) and a minute and a half behind.

What killed Jan was starting second last, but if you think about it, if other riders had started in that position, Armstrong would have passed everybody(Landis, Cancellara, Leipheimer, McGee, Rogers, Basso etc....) and would almost have caught Vinokourov and Hincapie.
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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I think a lot of posters underestimate the effect of crashing through a windscreen of a car, without a helmet, two days before the start of a TDF race.

Anyone who has ever crashed on a bike knows how sore your body is afterwards (and that's without having broken bones).
After a crash the affected area is sore, swollen and you're in shock after coming off the bike.

I had a fall a few weeks back (first one in years) and basically ended up bouncing down the road, hitting my head on concrete.
Thankfully I had my helmet on.
My shoulder, hip, elbow, knee and back were sore for two weeks : couldn't get on the bike.

I think LA did a great time trial yesterday but I wouldn't underestimate the damage caused and the effect of JU crash.
 

sopas

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Jul 20, 2004
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Of course if Ullrich really was affected by the effects of the crash, he and his team and going to hide any vulnerabilities. The last think a rider wants is the rest of the peloton to know you are not in good shape, even if you are really felling bad.

Regarding Ulrich crash. All I know is that he crashed against the back window of a car and he ended up inside the car!! So, I guess the crash mush have been hard. The back and front windows of any car are ussually very thick. Not everybody can smash them and make a hole punching with their fist.
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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........Cycleingnews said JU wasn't wearing a helmet either.

Even with wearing a helmet, a person will be sore and bruised after going through a rear windscreen.

This effect of this accident is underestimated.

Not to take anything away from LA : he did the correct thing and hit JU when JU was vulnerable.
The eeffect of that crash on JU will remain for a couple of day, I think.
He will feel sore.

The thing he has to do is to try to ride within himself for a day or two - in order to let himself heal.
 

Eldrack

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Jan 10, 2005
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Provided he doesn't get caught in a classic tour pile up Jan should be just fine for when the mountains come around, and lets face it, thats the important bit.
 

wilmar13

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Eldrack said:
Provided he doesn't get caught in a classic tour pile up Jan should be just fine for when the mountains come around, and lets face it, thats the important bit.

I agree, I can't believe all the Jan lost the tour already ****... straight from LA's mouth himself:

Lance Armstrong said:
"I don't put a lot of stock into Jan's performance yesterday," Armstrong stated. "He crashed into a team car going 60 kph the day before. That's got to affect you. I crashed 10 days ago and it took me four or five days to get normal again. Jan will be good in a few days' time. He's got to; we're going to Germany."
 

segamartinez

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Apr 30, 2005
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Agree with YIMan.

I posted this in another thread, but I think it applies here: If Lance retired last year - and Ullrich finished the same way after the ITT - a minute behind Zabriskie with 99% of the field - do you think you guys would be as critical of Jan's performance today?

Take away Zabriskie and JU is right at the top. People would probably saying: 'ok, solid showing - especially considering he crashed into the team car the day before - he's in good position.'

With Lance in the tour, I think people think themlselves 'here we go again - JU isn't answering the bell and he's not stepping up when it matters.'

I'm sure it's frustrating, but the fact of the matter is LA is better than JU and he shows it year after year. I don't think it's much different from when Tiger Woods was in his prime and he's winning some of the majors by a few strokes - and Mickelson, Els, Singh, Garcia, etc. fans are wondering why their players are choking on Sunday or not able to take their game to the next level.

Part of it may be psychological where Woods shows up on Sunday and exudes confidence and people just 'know' he's going to win - I think the same can be said for the Lance and the TdF.

I think after 6 tours in a row you can say Lance is in a class by himself - and to use him as a benchmark regarding JU's performance is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The only person that can beat LA is LA.
 

MJtje

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Feb 6, 2005
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Lol, not to crush youre hopes.........but THAT IS his weak part. He should excel in TT's and limit his losses in the mountains. In a week we will find out.........but I think that everyone is thinking to high of der Jan. It's BASSO: can't say it enough he will be really good!



Eldrack said:
Provided he doesn't get caught in a classic tour pile up Jan should be just fine for when the mountains come around, and lets face it, thats the important bit.
 

ryan16

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Jun 26, 2005
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MJtje said:
Lol, not to crush youre hopes.........but THAT IS his weak part. He should excel in TT's and limit his losses in the mountains. In a week we will find out.........but I think that everyone is thinking to high of der Jan. It's BASSO: can't say it enough he will be really good!
MJtje- you got it right on! I really like Jan he is one of my favorites but I don't think he stands a chance. He should be able to do really well in the TT but he wont last in the mountains. If you ask Lance hell tell you his biggest competition is Basso but no one talks about him he is going to suprise everyone and I think it will be close and don't forget he didn's have that bad of a TT yesterday and in the TTT he has a great team so he shouldn't lose anytime there. If he didn't get sick in the Giro he would have been imposible to beat bottem line.

Everyone watch out for Ivan!!!!!!!!:cool:
 

gntlmn

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Jul 28, 2003
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When the winner of the stage has the fastest TT time in Tour history, it's pretty hard to fault Jan for only being a minute or so back from him. I guess we won't be hearing Lemond bragging anymore about that record because before the prologue TT of the 2005 Tour, he held that honor, earned when he beat Laurent Fignon in a slightly longer TT using now banned aero bars. Zabriski even bettered Lemond's speed. That's impressive. Armstrong happened to be right there with him, and in my opinion would have won that stage if it would have been Jan starting first with Zabriski's time. In other words, Lance didn't have as much motivation to best Zabriski as he had to better Ullrich.
 

Flyer

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Sep 20, 2004
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limerickman said:
I think a lot of posters underestimate the effect of crashing through a windscreen of a car, without a helmet, two days before the start of a TDF race.

Anyone who has ever crashed on a bike knows how sore your body is afterwards (and that's without having broken bones).
After a crash the affected area is sore, swollen and you're in shock after coming off the bike.

I had a fall a few weeks back (first one in years) and basically ended up bouncing down the road, hitting my head on concrete.
Thankfully I had my helmet on.
My shoulder, hip, elbow, knee and back were sore for two weeks : couldn't get on the bike.

I think LA did a great time trial yesterday but I wouldn't underestimate the damage caused and the effect of JU crash.
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 
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