Water water ...



D

Darren G

Guest
I'd be interested what others consider a practical amount of fluids to
carry when out on the hills. I guess that I tend to carry more than most,
but would value some form of benchmark. I suspect that not many people
follow the common 1 litre per hour guideline.

I'd usually carry a 2 litre platypus for an up to 8 hourr outing plus a
spare 750ml bottle 'emergency rations'. For longer days I'd tend to add a
second 2l platypus - with a noticeable weight penalty.

While on the subject, when wild camping (and I haven't for a few years) I
used to rely on water purification tablets (unless I could find a spring).
This though left an aftertaste that wasn't brilliant for cooking and far
worse for drinking the following day. What is the current 'good practice'
for getting a safe water supply while on extended trips?

Thanks
Darren
 
"Darren G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'd be interested what others consider a practical amount of fluids to
> carry when out on the hills. I guess that I tend to carry more than most,
> but would value some form of benchmark. I suspect that not many people
> follow the common 1 litre per hour guideline.
>
> I'd usually carry a 2 litre platypus for an up to 8 hourr outing plus a
> spare 750ml bottle 'emergency rations'. For longer days I'd tend to add a
> second 2l platypus - with a noticeable weight penalty.
>
> While on the subject, when wild camping (and I haven't for a few years) I
> used to rely on water purification tablets (unless I could find a spring).
> This though left an aftertaste that wasn't brilliant for cooking and far
> worse for drinking the following day. What is the current 'good practice'
> for getting a safe water supply while on extended trips?

It obviously depends on how hot, how far, and where, but I usually find 2
litres for a days walk is enough.

Earlier this year I took a walk up Dr.'s gate and across to Mill Hill and
down William Clough to Hayfield. Not particulary taxing on most days, but
on the hottest day of the year it was exhausting. I went through my 2 l of
water, finished of my mates big bottle of juice, and drank several litres of
the William Clough stream! There were a number of sheep in the area and I
was a bit dubious at first as to whether or not the water would be safe,
but then I saw a small fish swimming around, and that convinced me all was
well!
Once safely in Hayfield we went to the pub, and the first three pints didn't
touch the sides....
Oh, and Norah Batty (Kathy Staff) was drinking there too!!

Dave
 
The message <[email protected]>
from Darren G <[email protected]> contains these words:

> I'd be interested what others consider a practical amount of fluids to
> carry when out on the hills. I guess that I tend to carry more than most,
> but would value some form of benchmark. I suspect that not many people
> follow the common 1 litre per hour guideline.

> I'd usually carry a 2 litre platypus for an up to 8 hourr outing plus a
> spare 750ml bottle 'emergency rations'. For longer days I'd tend to add a
> second 2l platypus - with a noticeable weight penalty.

I have a 1 litre bottle and usually carry it half full except on the
hottest of days. In winter it may go untouched all day and even in
summer I don't usually drink it all. However I rarely walk for as long
as 8 hours these days.

ISTR that as a youth I rarely carried a water bottle relying on the
occasional stream instead but for some reason I very rarely drink from a
stream these days.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 39 summits
New - 22 (Marilyns 8, Sweats 5, Outlying Fells 11)
Repeats - 17( Marilyns 6, Sweats 12, Wainwrights 11)
Knackered knee - 4 times
 
>> I'd be interested what others consider a practical amount of fluids to
>> carry when out on the hills. I guess that I tend to carry more than most,
>> but would value some form of benchmark. I suspect that not many people
>> follow the common 1 litre per hour guideline. [...]

I certainly don't. I generally use Sigg bottles (filled with hot water
and stuffed into a sock, they become hot water bottles at night :)
and I have them in 2 sizes: I think one is a 1 litre and the other
0.6. Unless it's very hot, I generally make do with the smaller one
for day walks. Having said that, I almost always take a flask of
coffee, even in hot weather, as I like to sip it with my flapjack at
lunchtime, and it can be good for morale at other times of the day.
I'll normally finish the coffee, and a varying amount of the water.

In combination, the bottle and flask probably come to a bit more than
a litre. I'm aware that I should drink more water, but it's a weight
thing...


Best wishes,
--
Peewiglet
 
I take a 1 litre water bottle, which I refill from streams. If in
very dry terrain where this isn't possible I'll carry a 2l platypus in
addition, eg Cuillin Ridge, Sahara Desert ;-)
 
"Darren G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'd be interested what others consider a practical amount of fluids to
> carry when out on the hills. I guess that I tend to carry more than most,
> but would value some form of benchmark. I suspect that not many people
> follow the common 1 litre per hour guideline.

You're right 1 litre per hour on an 8 or 10 hour walk is a bit of weight! I
usually
carry about 1.5 litres, 1/2 being a Lucozade type sports drink and the rest
being water. I do drink out of burns, so far so good, but generally am
dehydrated on return. You can tell by the colour of your (cough) urine,
the darker, the more dehydrated you are. I've got one of those Platypus
things
but as I'm now carrying a smaller sack I don't have the luxury of space to
fit 2 litres into it. I think it may only be an issue on a multi-day trip,
you
can go into "debt" regarding water on a single day trip and while feeling
thirsty, it won't do you any harm.

KRO
 
On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:05:02 +0100, Roger <[email protected]> wrote:

>The message <[email protected]>
>from Darren G <[email protected]> contains these words:
>
>> I'd be interested what others consider a practical amount of fluids to
>> carry when out on the hills. I guess that I tend to carry more than most,
>> but would value some form of benchmark. I suspect that not many people
>> follow the common 1 litre per hour guideline.
>
>> I'd usually carry a 2 litre platypus for an up to 8 hourr outing plus a
>> spare 750ml bottle 'emergency rations'. For longer days I'd tend to add a
>> second 2l platypus - with a noticeable weight penalty.
>
>I have a 1 litre bottle and usually carry it half full except on the
>hottest of days. In winter it may go untouched all day and even in
>summer I don't usually drink it all. However I rarely walk for as long
>as 8 hours these days.

There is something wrong with you ;-) I'm sure you feel fine, but even
doing nothing over a period of a few hours should require some fluid intake.

Off to tackle Scafell/Scafell Pike/Great End on Saturday. With the forecast
being for some high temperatures, I'll be carrying 2l and will drink plenty
before starting out. But then I sweat copiously on serious walks. I have
always drunk at least 1l even on shorter outings. It's not a force of habit
- at home I can get one from end of the day to the other on two cups of tea
if too busy to stop.

--
Just a fake guitar player in the Monkees of life.

Mail john rather than nospam...
 
> While on the subject, when wild camping (and I haven't for a few
> years) I used to rely on water purification tablets (unless I could
> find a spring). This though left an aftertaste that wasn't brilliant
> for cooking and far worse for drinking the following day. What is the
> current 'good practice' for getting a safe water supply while on
> extended trips?

You can get iodine with stuff to remove the taste. Bloke in the shop
suggested just putting in some orange juice (I think he used powdered
orange juice) to mask the taste but IMO it just tastes like iodine
flavoured with orange juice.

There are lots of (expensive) filtering dooberry's. Prices seemed to start
at £45 and go as high as you like. They can be used with virtually any
water (iodine doesn't work if the water has lots of organic stuff in).
 
The message <[email protected]>
from "KRO" <[email protected]> contains these words:

> you
> can go into "debt" regarding water on a single day trip and while feeling
> thirsty, it won't do you any harm.

I would agree with that but there are many who say even slight
dehydration is a problem.

After a weekend away I am usually 3 or 4lbs lighter but will put almost
all back on within 24 hours.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 39 summits
New - 22 (Marilyns 8, Sweats 5, Outlying Fells 11)
Repeats - 17( Marilyns 6, Sweats 12, Wainwrights 11)
Knackered knee - 4 times
 
The message <[email protected]>
from John Laird <[email protected]> contains these words:

> There is something wrong with you ;-) I'm sure you feel fine, but even
> doing nothing over a period of a few hours should require some fluid intake.

In the hills I only drink when I feel really thirsty and in winter when
I haven't been sweating a great deal I rarely feel that thirsty. Saves
on weight and also saves on not having to stop for a pee every few
miles.

> Off to tackle Scafell/Scafell Pike/Great End on Saturday. With the forecast
> being for some high temperatures, I'll be carrying 2l and will drink plenty
> before starting out. But then I sweat copiously on serious walks. I have
> always drunk at least 1l even on shorter outings. It's not a force of habit
> - at home I can get one from end of the day to the other on two cups of tea
> if too busy to stop.

I sweat copiously even doing nothing when it is hot. I don't do serious
walks these days as I am not fit enough. When at home it is somewhat
different. As a former civil servant (among other things) I just can't
go without my mid morning and mid afternoon coffee breaks.

I wish you well on Scafell. I won't be out. I am currently sidelined
with a badly swollen leg from yet another wasp sting.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 39 summits
New - 22 (Marilyns 8, Sweats 5, Outlying Fells 11)
Repeats - 17( Marilyns 6, Sweats 12, Wainwrights 11)
Knackered knee - 4 times
 
The message <[email protected]>
from Simon Caldwell <[email protected]> contains these words:

> take a 1 litre water bottle, which I refill from streams. If in
> very dry terrain where this isn't possible I'll carry a 2l platypus in
> addition, eg Cuillin Ridge, Sahara Desert ;-)

On my 1st visit to the Cuillins in 1966 I didn't have a small water
bottle (along with at least one other so on one walk (at least) we
carried a part filled campsite type container (several gallons).
Scrambling with a significant quantity of water in the rucksack, only
partly constrained, can be a bit unnerving as the water sloshes about.

On subsequent visits in the 70s we got in several traverses of the Main
Ridge. On one we managed to plant a container of fresh water about the
halfway mark but on the others we just had to lump it with a litre or so
each. And as you really need a hot sunny day for the ridge I dare say we
suffered a bit.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 39 summits
New - 22 (Marilyns 8, Sweats 5, Outlying Fells 11)
Repeats - 17( Marilyns 6, Sweats 12, Wainwrights 11)
Knackered knee - 4 times
 
Darren G wrote:
> I'd be interested what others consider a practical amount of fluids to
> carry when out on the hills. I guess that I tend to carry more than most,
> but would value some form of benchmark. I suspect that not many people
> follow the common 1 litre per hour guideline.

I'd never come across it, and I certainly never drink that much. I
usually carry about half a litre. I typically drink more over a day,
but since upland streams are generally fine to drink from and that's
where I am, I don't see much point in carrying the stuff around when
it's all over the place anyway!
The half litre sees my along ridges and the like. I'll consider
emptying my plat/bottle if I'm walking alongside a burn for a longish way.

> While on the subject, when wild camping (and I haven't for a few years) I
> used to rely on water purification tablets (unless I could find a spring).
> This though left an aftertaste that wasn't brilliant for cooking and far
> worse for drinking the following day. What is the current 'good practice'
> for getting a safe water supply while on extended trips?

Best thing is just to camp by fresh water! Boiling will kill anything
naughty but of course it (and iodine etc.) won't remove toxins as
they're not alive to start with. You may wish to consider a filter, but
I don't bother where I go.

Though I think Roger may be taking things a bit too aridly for a lot of
folks' physiologies, I also think it's the case that a lot of people
have got overly paranoid about drinking enough over the last couple of
years. I have come across people who really go to pieces if they don't
drink a fair bit, but Roger's example shows this isn't certain to happen
to everyone: people are different. I /can/ go a full day on less than a
litre quite easily. Though I prefer not to.

The thought of 10 litres to drink over a long day in Scotland has my
bladder in a panic!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:15:25 +0100, Roger <[email protected]> wrote:

>The message <[email protected]>
>from John Laird <[email protected]> contains these words:
>
>> There is something wrong with you ;-) I'm sure you feel fine, but even
>> doing nothing over a period of a few hours should require some fluid intake.
>
>In the hills I only drink when I feel really thirsty and in winter when
>I haven't been sweating a great deal I rarely feel that thirsty. Saves
>on weight and also saves on not having to stop for a pee every few
>miles.

Every few miles - you must be a walking water bladder ;-) I go once, if
that, when walking. This would tend to suggest I am certainly not drinking
too much. More likely the opposite.

>> Off to tackle Scafell/Scafell Pike/Great End on Saturday. With the forecast
>> being for some high temperatures, I'll be carrying 2l and will drink plenty
>> before starting out. But then I sweat copiously on serious walks. I have
>> always drunk at least 1l even on shorter outings. It's not a force of habit
>> - at home I can get one from end of the day to the other on two cups of tea
>> if too busy to stop.
>
>I sweat copiously even doing nothing when it is hot. I don't do serious
>walks these days as I am not fit enough. When at home it is somewhat
>different. As a former civil servant (among other things) I just can't
>go without my mid morning and mid afternoon coffee breaks.

Serious is only serious in my terms. For many others, they might be only a
stroll.

>I wish you well on Scafell. I won't be out. I am currently sidelined
>with a badly swollen leg from yet another wasp sting.

Bad luck, sounds like a fairly allergic reaction ? This is attempt number
2, from Wasdale Head. Attempt number 1, from the bottom of the Hardknott
Pass, fell foul of going up the Esk on the wrong bank and getting stuck in
the world's biggest bog for some time, after 2 days continuous rain. (Plus
the cloud never shifted off the tops all day so visibility would have been
nil.)

--
We should go metric every inch of the way!

Mail john rather than nospam...
 
On 4 Aug 2004 23:30:25 GMT, Darren G <[email protected]> wrote:

>I'd be interested what others consider a practical amount of fluids to
>carry when out on the hills. I guess that I tend to carry more than most,
>but would value some form of benchmark. I suspect that not many people
>follow the common 1 litre per hour guideline.
>
>I'd usually carry a 2 litre platypus for an up to 8 hourr outing plus a
>spare 750ml bottle 'emergency rations'. For longer days I'd tend to add a
>second 2l platypus - with a noticeable weight penalty.
>
>While on the subject, when wild camping (and I haven't for a few years) I
>used to rely on water purification tablets (unless I could find a spring).
>This though left an aftertaste that wasn't brilliant for cooking and far
>worse for drinking the following day. What is the current 'good practice'
>for getting a safe water supply while on extended trips?
>
>Thanks
>Darren

You might want to consider getting one of these. I have one, and use
it a lot (as most of the year I am wild camping here and there)
http://www.travelwithcare.com/browse.asp?catID=928

But then I always have a belt with a small water container on each
side
 
On 4 Aug 2004 23:30:25 GMT, Darren G <[email protected]> wrote:

| I'd be interested what others consider a practical amount of fluids to
| carry when out on the hills. I guess that I tend to carry more than most,
| but would value some form of benchmark. I suspect that not many people
| follow the common 1 litre per hour guideline.

One litre per hour? you must be joking!

In the dim and distant past in Aden (South Yemen) The temperature was,
blood heat, 98 deg F, the humidity very high and the sun shone 90% of the
day time. I walked on the hills for a full day with 3 pt of water, 1 pt
was for emergencies, and never drunk. So that was 1 litre per *day*, and
I never suffered any ill effects. In the UK a pint per day is IMO a bit
OTT.

Dave F
 
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

> In the UK a pint per day is IMO a bit OTT.

Two cups of tea over breakfast and you're already there! Most people
drink more than this just slumming about the house, if you think about it.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

> In the UK a pint per day is IMO a bit OTT.

Two cups of tea over breakfast and you're already there! Most people
drink more than this just slumming about the house, if you think about it.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
>> In the UK a pint per day is IMO a bit OTT.
>
> Two cups of tea over breakfast and you're already there!

You need to change pubs - your landlord has been cheating you out of an
awful lot of beer. I hate to think what he uses when you ask for a half -
a port glass?! :)
 
The message <[email protected]>
from John Laird <[email protected]> contains these words:

> >In the hills I only drink when I feel really thirsty and in winter when
> >I haven't been sweating a great deal I rarely feel that thirsty. Saves
> >on weight and also saves on not having to stop for a pee every few
> >miles.

> Every few miles - you must be a walking water bladder ;-) I go once, if
> that, when walking. This would tend to suggest I am certainly not drinking
> too much. More likely the opposite.

I think I would be able to guarantee every 2 - 3 hours even on my regime
and colourwise not too deep even at the end of the day. ISTR reading
somewhere that HtoO is a byproduct of energy conversion within the body
so water input of (considerably?) less than 100% of output will maintain
water balance.

snip

> >I sweat copiously even doing nothing when it is hot. I don't do serious
> >walks these days as I am not fit enough. When at home it is somewhat
> >different. As a former civil servant (among other things) I just can't
> >go without my mid morning and mid afternoon coffee breaks.

> Serious is only serious in my terms. For many others, they might be only a
> stroll.

Any idea how much sweat it takes to soak a shirt? ISTM that a little
sweat will go a long way.

> >I wish you well on Scafell. I won't be out. I am currently sidelined
> >with a badly swollen leg from yet another wasp sting.

> Bad luck, sounds like a fairly allergic reaction ?

I am beginning to think so. Attack number one was several stings (6 or
more) mostly concentrated on my wrist which became red and swollen.
Casualty doctor (weekend so no surgery) proclaimed wrist was infected
and prescribed penicillin and a triangular bandage. This time (surgery
visit) it is hydrocortisone cream and anti histamine tablets which so
far have not been very effective. I am only assuming a wasp sting this
time as the miscreant was not seen. The Dr favoured a hornet but I have
never even seen one of them.

> This is attempt number
> 2, from Wasdale Head. Attempt number 1, from the bottom of the Hardknott
> Pass, fell foul of going up the Esk on the wrong bank and getting stuck in
> the world's biggest bog for some time, after 2 days continuous rain. (Plus
> the cloud never shifted off the tops all day so visibility would have been
> nil.)

You should have taken Martin with you. He would have had no hesitation
in leading you back and forth across the Esk as fancy dictated. :)

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 39 summits
New - 22 (Marilyns 8, Sweats 5, Outlying Fells 11)
Repeats - 17( Marilyns 6, Sweats 12, Wainwrights 11)
Knackered knee - 4 times
 
On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:43:44 +0100, Roger <[email protected]> wrote:

>The message <[email protected]>
>from John Laird <[email protected]> contains these words:
>
> ISTR reading
>somewhere that HtoO is a byproduct of energy conversion within the body
>so water input of (considerably?) less than 100% of output will maintain
>water balance.

Yes, "burning" carbohydrate does indeed produce CO2 and water, the CO2 being
vented through the lungs of course. As well as this, most foods contain
appreciable amounts of water, even if not in thirst-slaking form.

>Any idea how much sweat it takes to soak a shirt? ISTM that a little
>sweat will go a long way.

When I can feel it running into my eyes and down my forearms, when my
companions look vaguely red, I have a reasonable idea, yes ;-) Gave up the
cotton shirts long ago once I realised that much of the twenty-times cloth
weight in water they were soaking up was my perspiration. Hmm, I wonder if
synthetic materials can sometimes make you feel sweatier by virtue of their
relative non-absorbency.

>> >I wish you well on Scafell. I won't be out. I am currently sidelined
>> >with a badly swollen leg from yet another wasp sting.
>
>> Bad luck, sounds like a fairly allergic reaction ?
>
>I am beginning to think so. Attack number one was several stings (6 or
>more) mostly concentrated on my wrist which became red and swollen.
>Casualty doctor (weekend so no surgery) proclaimed wrist was infected
>and prescribed penicillin and a triangular bandage. This time (surgery
>visit) it is hydrocortisone cream and anti histamine tablets which so
>far have not been very effective. I am only assuming a wasp sting this
>time as the miscreant was not seen. The Dr favoured a hornet but I have
>never even seen one of them.

Hornets are to the wasp family what football hooligans are to the pubescent
lads who might hang around trying to look vaguely dangerous. I am led to
believe they are quite rare, but if you do see one, you will know - they are
big. Interesting web site here: http://www.insectstings.co.uk

>> This is attempt number
>> 2, from Wasdale Head. Attempt number 1, from the bottom of the Hardknott
>> Pass, fell foul of going up the Esk on the wrong bank and getting stuck in
>> the world's biggest bog for some time, after 2 days continuous rain. (Plus
>> the cloud never shifted off the tops all day so visibility would have been
>> nil.)
>
>You should have taken Martin with you. He would have had no hesitation
>in leading you back and forth across the Esk as fancy dictated. :)

Funnily enough, we did have *a* Martin with us. His route said merely "ford
the stream". Ha ha. 20' of 2' deep fast-flowing water. I consulted my
usual oracle on our return, which is John Dawson's site and as he puts it,
"Great Moss is wet and boggy and will make you wish you'd gone the other
way". Still, it was *so* wet that when we did eventually all fall in
somewhere, we did not come out stinking. Needless to say this was within
minutes of laughing our heads off at some Saunders challenge runners who one
after the other attempted to ford a small tributary and failed to notice
that the third and final stride took them into waist-deep water and not the
knee-deep stuff they'd been expecting.

--
We are born naked, wet and hungry. Then things get worse.

Mail john rather than nospam...
 
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