Watership Down 15th Jan

Dave Larrington said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon

Brooke () said:

Alan, you are either misremembering or a liar. Even the best racing
cyclists of the day, in competition, didn't achieve the speeds you claim
to have hit while 'going to a dance'. But it differently, if you had
gone to the Berlin Olympics in 1939, you could have brought back enough
gold medals to finance the British war effort.

<pedant>
If he'd gone to the Berlin Olympics in 1939, he couldn't have brought
back /any/ medals as he'd have been a year too late
</pedant>

<pedant>
Three years too late
</pedant>

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
Mae bys Mari-Ann wedi brifo

Simon Brooke said:

Alan, you are either misremembering or a liar.

I don't think so, and neither do I see any need to be quite that blunt
about it. Why would he lie about it, especially when he knows he's not
being believed? I'm almost certain he's sincere. What I'm slightly
puzzled about is his complete confidence in his memory of the event in
the face of so much scepticism. Human memory is quite fallible. For
example, I've had the experience where a line of dialogue from a film
has impressed me and stuck in my mind. In my imagination I've been able
to replay the scene and hear the actor's voice recite the line. Years
later I've seen the film again, but when it gets to that particular
scene the dialogue is different. I'm sure we've all had similar
experiences.

--
Dave...

David Martin said:

Alan Holmes wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And, BTW, the bike was a Raleigh, with a sturmey archer 3 speed gear fitted
with a two gear derailier, and a hub dynamo, lowest gear 26 and highest 104.

Hmm.. that gives an average cadence of just over 90 in top gear, with
luggage, over the chilterns.

I make it just over 95. Didn't he say earlier that the cadence of
today's cyclists is too high?

--
Dave...

dkahn400 said:

I'm sure we've all had similar
experiences.

Indeed. I guess that's why Simon wrote "misremembered /or/ a liar". It's
got to be one or the other, because it sure as heckfire ain't the truth.
And Alan is refusing to accept that it's his memory at fault so there is
only one other possible conclusion...

It's all quite amusing, though.

d.

davek said:

MartinM said:

OK see you there. I'll be the one waiting forlornly for 45 mins for a
plate of beans on after everyone else has started back to Denmead.

NB don't go into any cafe if the waiter looks like a character out of
Little Britain.

"Margaret, have we gone any beans that are a bit less piratey?"

dkahn400 said:

David Martin said:

Alan Holmes wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And, BTW, the bike was a Raleigh, with a sturmey archer 3 speed gear fitted
with a two gear derailier, and a hub dynamo, lowest gear 26 and highest 104.

Hmm.. that gives an average cadence of just over 90 in top gear, with
luggage, over the chilterns.

I make it just over 95. Didn't he say earlier that the cadence of
today's cyclists is too high?

85 up the hills and freewheeling down. Easy :-)

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

In article <[email hidden]>, Keith Willoughby

() said:

Dave Larrington said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon

Brooke () said:

Alan, you are either misremembering or a liar. Even the best racing
cyclists of the day, in competition, didn't achieve the speeds you claim
to have hit while 'going to a dance'. But it differently, if you had
gone to the Berlin Olympics in 1939, you could have brought back enough
gold medals to finance the British war effort.

<pedant>
If he'd gone to the Berlin Olympics in 1939, he couldn't have brought
back /any/ medals as he'd have been a year too late
</pedant>

<pedant>
Three years too late
</pedant>

I'm tempted to blame this keyboard, but somehow I don't think anyone
would believe me...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Barley, barley, barley, world cruise. You never see a farmer on a bike.

In article <[email hidden]>, davek

() said:

Simon Brooke said:

I'm sure, of course, that you were a much better cyclist than
Silvere Maes, who won in that year, but what I want to know is, in that
case, why didn't you take part?

Was there a British team that year? If not, to be fair to Alan, it's
unlikely they would have invited him to take part.

Only pre-Wa Brits I can find are Charles Holland and the improbable-
sounding Pierre Gachon, both in 1937. Neither finished.

Quoted message said:

Either that or the organisers were just scared he would show them all up.

Well, Perfidious Albion an' all that...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Barley, barley, barley, world cruise. You never see a farmer on a bike.

"dkahn400" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David Martin said:

Alan Holmes wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And, BTW, the bike was a Raleigh, with a sturmey archer 3 speed gear
fitted
with a two gear derailier, and a hub dynamo, lowest gear 26 and highest
104.

Hmm.. that gives an average cadence of just over 90 in top gear, with
luggage, over the chilterns.

I make it just over 95. Didn't he say earlier that the cadence of
today's cyclists is too high?

Yes, I see people turning the pedals at a very high rate, but they are
travelling at very low speeds, why the hell aren't they tought how to use
gears.

Alan

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Keith Willoughby

() said:

Dave Larrington said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon
Brooke ([email hidden]) wrote:

> Alan, you are either misremembering or a liar. Even the best racing
> cyclists of the day, in competition, didn't achieve the speeds you
> claim
> to have hit while 'going to a dance'. But it differently, if you had
> gone to the Berlin Olympics in 1939, you could have brought back
> enough
> gold medals to finance the British war effort.

<pedant>
If he'd gone to the Berlin Olympics in 1939, he couldn't have brought
back /any/ medals as he'd have been a year too late
</pedant>

<pedant>
Three years too late
</pedant>

I'm tempted to blame this keyboard, but somehow I don't think anyone
would believe me...

I would, but then I'm the sort of fool who believes anything!(:-)

Alan

Quoted message said:

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Barley, barley, barley, world cruise. You never see a farmer on a bike.

davek said:

dkahn400 said:

I'm sure we've all had similar
experiences.

Indeed. I guess that's why Simon wrote "misremembered /or/ a liar". It's
got to be one or the other, because it sure as heckfire ain't the truth.
And Alan is refusing to accept that it's his memory at fault so there is
only one other possible conclusion...

There's no need to accuse Alan of lying. "Misremembered" is enough.
Refusing to accept his memory is playing tricks just makes him
stubborn, not dishonest.

--
Dave...

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alan Holmes said:

I've never ever been interested in competions of ay sort.

no, too slow for you

Nothing at all to do with that, when I was at school I had absolutely no
interest in any 'sport' and both teachers and other pupils knew that, for
some unknown reason, there were always 31 boys in the classes I was in, so
when the teachers took us out into the playground for 'sports' he would pick
two boys to be the leaders, who would then pick boys for their side, whoever
got to make the first selection, was always left with me in his side, as I
was always left until last, i would then be put in a positin where I could
do no harm, this was ideal for me as I didn't want to run around kicking a
ball.

If we went to the local playing field to play cricket, the teacher knowing I
was useless would give me the job of keeping score, but I was so bad at
that, another boy would always take over and I'd be left to spend the time
day dreaming.

Yes, I suppose I could say I enjoyed 'sport'!

Alan

Quoted message said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Alan Holmes

() said:

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alan Holmes wrote:

> I sometimes pace cyclists to see what speeds they are travelling at,
> and
> it's surprising how fast some of them travel, it's very common to pace
> someone at 25 + mph

FSVO common, the only time I see cyclists riding at that speed is on
TT's

> But, of course, i cannot be sure my car speedometer is really very
> accurate!

sorry to disappoint you but you did not ever ride anywhere at 29.5 mph
average; think back, reconsider the journey and it will become
apparent.

If you work out the distance from South Ealing to Stow-on-the-Wold, you
will
find it is very close to 84 miles.

And I left South Ealing at 2.00 pm and arrived at the hostel before it
opened, the normal opening times of YH is 5.00 pm.

As to people travelling at 25 mph or faster, I suggest you try pacing
some
who appear to be going at a fair speed, or indeed any speed, and then
make
the comment.

My fastest-ever race performance saw me averaging 28.7 mph for 45
minutes. On an indoor velodrome, on a very reclined, tail-faired
recumbent. With no luggage at all, not even a water bottle. Spending
most of the race doing bit-and-bit with two other riders, one of whom
has won the championship three years running and competed in Team RAAM
last year. I doubt even Mr Armstrong or Fat Boy Ullrich could do Ealing
-> Stow o/t Wold at that speed.

I have only given the facts, the time starting, arriving, and I leave it to
you to work out the distance.

And there is still the motorist who informed me I was travelling at 30mph.

Alan

Quoted message said:

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Jack Hackett for Pope, next time!

Quoted message said:

Yes, I see people turning the pedals at a very high rate, but they are
travelling at very low speeds, why the hell aren't they tought how to
use gears.

It's kinda something that most people work out themselves. All I can think
of is that heavy horrible imitation cheapo mtb's don't really reward fast
speeds and that this, coupled with lack of maintenance, means they've no
wish to go fast, and after a few months of use, no way to change up to the
middle/big ring. Cable stretch probably makes the bottom cogs on the rear
wossname difficult to get into as well.

In article said:

I have only given the facts, the time starting, arriving, and I leave it to
you to work out the distance.

About 77 miles, says Google Maps, but it would be a bit further not using
the M40.

Quoted message said:

And there is still the motorist who informed me I was travelling at 30mph.

At least two obvious explanations spring to mind:
i) you've misremembered that bit too
ii) that was a downhill bit

"Alan Braggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

I have only given the facts, the time starting, arriving, and I leave it
to
you to work out the distance.

About 77 miles, says Google Maps, but it would be a bit further not using
the M40.

The M40 didn't exist in thse days.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And there is still the motorist who informed me I was travelling at 30mph.

At least two obvious explanations spring to mind:
i) you've misremembered that bit too

I don't think so.

Quoted message said:

ii) that was a downhill bit

On the flat.

Alan

"Alan Holmes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Alan Braggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

I have only given the facts, the time starting, arriving, and I leave it
to
you to work out the distance.

About 77 miles, says Google Maps, but it would be a bit further not using
the M40.

The M40 didn't exist in thse days.

And, silly me, I'd forgotten that cyclists are not welcome on the M40
either!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And there is still the motorist who informed me I was travelling at
30mph.

At least two obvious explanations spring to mind:
i) you've misremembered that bit too

I don't think so.

Quoted message said:

ii) that was a downhill bit

On the flat.

Alan

I rather enjoy it all.
Maybe Alan is actually Peter Mandelson and he's just putting a touch of spin
on it all, (despite his claimed aversion to spinning).

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MartinM said:

Alan Holmes said:

You are not keeping up with this are you, the start was south ealing
nad the hostel was stow-on-the-wold, see a previous post.

Nothing like those South Ealing 'nads, eh?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And, BTW, the bike was a Raleigh, with a sturmey archer 3 speed gear
fitted with a two gear derailier, and a hub dynamo, lowest gear 26
and highest 104.

I'm losing the will to live on this one

I can lose the will to live faster than you 🙂

--
Ambrose

A quick google for Alan Holmes brought this up...
http://www.iomtt.com/results/rider.asp?Ride_id=5669

Alan Holmes will be best remembered for his record breaking rides during the
1957 Manx Grand Prix, when he became the first Manxman to win the Junior and
Senior races <snip the rest>

....I can smell petrol....

"Alan Holmes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave Kahn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alan Holmes said:

"dkahn400" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>Alan Holmes wrote:

Quoted message said:

>>This was before the days of computers!
>
>Approximately which year?

1950

Today's records are much superior to those of 50 years ago. This is
largely due to improvements in bicycle technology. Modern time trial
bikes are significantly faster than older ones, which in turn were
significantly faster than utility bikes of the day, and not the other way
round as you seem to think.

Are you saying that cycle tracks are different lengths to what they were
50 years ago, shorter but claiming to be the longer lengths?

It was impossible to measure lengths accurately?

And their watches were not reliable either?

Quoted message said:

In 1950 the 50 mile time trial record was 1:59:15 - an average speed
slightly under 25.2 mph. The best 100 mile speed was still below 24 mph.
Your 80 mile leisure ride with luggage was apparently made at a much
greater speed than the then-standing 50 mile record. God knows how fast
you'd have gone if you'd been in a hurry.

I hate to think, perhaps if I had tried I could have got there at 4.00pm!

All I have done is to say exactly what happened, the times and distances
are correct.

And I would draw your attention to the motorist who said I was travelling
at 30mph, of course his speedometer could have been grossely in error, but
I would doubt that he would normally travel at, say, 15 - 20mph.

But you are entitled to dissbelieve it if you wish.

Alan

Quoted message said:

--
Dave...

I submit that on or about Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:38:27 GMT, the person
known to the court as "Alan Holmes" <[email hidden]> made a
statement (<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's
bundle) to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

Yes, I see people turning the pedals at a very high rate, but they are
travelling at very low speeds, why the hell aren't they tought how to use
gears.

They are. And they choose to spin instead of mashing the gears,
because now we have these new-fangled clipless pedals it's relatively
easy. Do KUATB!

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken